ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #1

[Hatfield]

I don't think he was wearing a coat. It has been described as a camo jacket. Both parents have been seen wearing hoodies and I think that is probably more the style of the jacket he had on. I am thinking a light weight zip style jacket without a hood but definitely not a coat. That to me would have been appropriate for the weather and temperatures.

In this newslink there are pictures in the video of him wearing a lightweight camo jacket that may very well be the one he was wearing at the time he was last seen. I also think the boots he was wearing were probably cowboy boots.

I think I recall reading that somewhere.

I think that kind of footwear is heavier for a toddler than say, sneakers. I could see that he could have lost his balance with the weight and they aren't that flexible if he were bending over to get a better look at the creek or even trying to scale some of the creek bed to get closer. I know when I wear boots I am not as agile on my feet as I am in my sneakers.

My theory is that he was lured by the water in the brief time eyes were taken off of him and tumbled in. With his small size and camo clothing, he could be well hidden under rocks and debris. I hope his family gets answers soon. The wait has to be agonizing.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/

If he did tumble in then I think the water was moving fast enough to carry the boy downstream.

All they have to do to test that is throw a small log in the water and I bet it would be carried downstream. The boy would not just sink and stop in that moving water. I think he could be carried downstream until he got snagged on something.

Which could be a long ways downstream unfortunately.

 

[skinnycat]

If he did tumble in then I think the water was moving fast enough to carry the boy downstream.

All they have to do to test that is throw a small log in the water and I bet it would be carried downstream. The boy would not just sink and stop in that moving water. I think he could be carried downstream until he got snagged on something.

Which could be a long ways downstream unfortunately.

Many years ago my mom's little cousin fell in the moving water, he was 4, he was found many months later and many miles away from where he fell in. They need to be walking the creek path, searching it step by step as they go along.

 

[Roselvr]

I don't think he was wearing a coat. It has been described as a camo jacket. Both parents have been seen wearing hoodies and I think that is probably more the style of the jacket he had on. I am thinking a light weight zip style fleece jacket but definitely not a coat. That to me would have been appropriate for the weather and temperatures.

In this newslink there are pictures in the video of him wearing a lightweight camo jacket that may very well be the one he was wearing at the time he was last seen. I also think the boots he was wearing were probably cowboy boots.

I think I recall reading that somewhere.

I think that kind of footwear is heavier for a toddler than say, sneakers. I could see that he could have lost his balance with the weight and they aren't that flexible if he were bending over to get a better look at the creek or even trying to scale some of the creek bed to get closer. I know when I wear boots I am not as agile on my feet as I am in my sneakers.

My theory is that he was lured by the water in the brief time eyes were taken off of him and tumbled in. With his small size and camo clothing, he could be well hidden under rocks and debris. I hope his family gets answers soon. The wait has to be agonizing.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/

My son used to wear cowboy boots. Grandson likes work boots. He also likes trying to grab my keyboard when I'm trying to post lol

 

[Donjeta]

OK, I have an idea that hasn't been mentioned... I do not think this happened, but it at least fits.

What if Little Deorr took his nap in the cab of the truck (his blanket, nap time), and it got too hot in the cab and he perished?

Then everybody present feels some form of responsibility, but it is still an accident.


Terrible situation no matter how this ends.

IMO the timeline seems a bit too tight if it's correct that the family were shopping at 1 pm. I imagine that the child might easily have fallen asleep in the truck on the way back, but then they'd have taken some time to drive back and there would be AC or maybe open windows if it got hot and stuffy and the child would only be alone in the vehicle for about an hour before the 911 call. I think if it's been only an hour any parents would still be hopeful that their child could be resuscitated and they would be calling 911 for emergency medical help ASAP instead hiding the evidence. The timeline would not allow a lot of time to get everyone on board so they tell the same lies, including the non-family member. It might be different if a child was forgotten overnight because everyone was so high on illegal drugs or something but I don't think a cover up would be seen as essential after a hour long nap.

My first thought when I read about the case was the same as the 911 operator's, is there water nearby.

 

[katydid23]

Cowboy Boots would fill up with water fast if he fell in. It is surprising that they have not been located though. I'd think they would have come off at some point if he was bouncing along in the fast moving creek. JMO

 

[*JMO*]

I agree. When I looked at the campsite in that one video where the reporter tours the area for us, I was struck by how close the campsite is to the stream and how steep and abrupt the drop to the water is. He wouldn't even have to have been trying to get to the water. If he stumbled near the edge, he could have tumbled down that bank in a heartbeat.

I completely agree. I can imagine a toddler wearing cowboy boots loosing traction easily on a damp slope and tumbling in.

It does seem that he would have been found by now in this scenario, but his little body could be weighted down by wooded debris and hard to spot with the camo. I am wondering if this fast moving creek could have taken him further down than has been well searched and he could have become lodged under a tree trunk. It looked like in the pictures I have seen that there are fallen trees lying across the creek in several places. I am just focused on that creek area as the most likely place where he would naturally wander and where a toddler could disappear quickly and silently if not closely monitored.

 

[Hatfield]

Many years ago my mom's little cousin fell in the moving water, he was 4, he was found many months later and many miles away from where he fell in. They need to be walking the creek path, searching it step by step as they go along.

So sad to hear about your relative.

I have only known 1 unrelated family that lost their young daughter from a bicycle/car accident and it was horrible from what I remember. My parents knew them as good friends and it was a horrible situation and devastated that family.

Agree about the water as it is very possible.

I saw 1 interview where the Dad seemed to imply because the water was so shallow that he couldnt be in the stream but he is not accounting for the CURRENT. Even a mild current is enough to carry a small child downstream.

Things become very bouyant in water so it only takes a small current to have great force to carry something downstream.

 

[carbuff]

If he did tumble in then I think the water was moving fast enough to carry the boy downstream.

All they have to do to test that is throw a small log in the water and I bet it would be carried downstream. The boy would not just sink and stop in that moving water. I think he could be carried downstream until he got snagged on something.

Which could be a long ways downstream unfortunately.

In a tumbling stream with spots of deep water like that, there's a tendency for something to go over those little cascades, plunge into the pool, and snag on rocks, branches, etc. under water. I hadn't thought about the camo jacket but yes, that would make him much harder to spot.

 

[leep]

I don't think he was wearing a coat. It has been described as a camo jacket. Both parents have been seen wearing hoodies and I think that is probably more the style of the jacket he had on. I am thinking a light weight zip style fleece jacket but definitely not a coat. That to me would have been appropriate for the weather and temperatures.

In this newslink there are pictures in the video of him wearing a lightweight camo jacket that may very well be the one he was wearing at the time he was last seen. I also think the boots he was wearing were probably cowboy boots.

I think I recall reading that somewhere.

I think that kind of footwear is heavier for a toddler than say, sneakers. I could see that he could have lost his balance with the weight and they aren't that flexible if he were bending over to get a better look at the creek or even trying to scale some of the creek bed to get closer. I know when I wear boots I am not as agile on my feet as I am in my sneakers.

My theory is that he was lured by the water in the brief time eyes were taken off of him and tumbled in. With his small size and camo clothing, he could be well hidden under rocks and debris. I hope his family gets answers soon. The wait has to be agonizing.

http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/deorr-kunz-disappearance-a-timeline-of-events/

RBBM
Here's the information on what little DK was wearing.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/Family-holds-vigil-for-missing-toddler/34151958
During the vigil, the family passed out flyers and candles, asking that people keep a look out for the toddler.

"Please... in a split second your whole world could be changed and turned upside down forever," Kunz Sr. said. "There's not much to be said. (Just) one small mistake as a parent, leaving him with an adult that turns his head just for a minute. They move. They go. Please cherish and love each other."
Deorr Kunz Jr. was last seen wearing a camo jacket, blue sweatpants and camo cowboy boots.

 

[Mountain]

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

This came to my FB 32 minutes ago

 

[Donjeta]

RBBM
Here's the information on what little DK was wearing.

http://m.localnews8.com/news/Family-holds-vigil-for-missing-toddler/34151958
During the vigil, the family passed out flyers and candles, asking that people keep a look out for the toddler.

"Please... in a split second your whole world could be changed and turned upside down forever," Kunz Sr. said. "There's not much to be said. (Just) one small mistake as a parent, leaving him with an adult that turns his head just for a minute. They move. They go. Please cherish and love each other."
Deorr Kunz Jr. was last seen wearing a camo jacket, blue sweatpants and camo cowboy boots.

There's no mention of what, if anything, he was wearing underneath the camo jacket. A t-shirt?

 

[Hatfield]

I also agree with others about cowboy boots. The bottoms of cowboy boots are smooth and very slippery.

Whenever in woods or hiking country like that you want to have soles that have good treads and traction. Cowboy boots or any type of shoes that has a smooth slick bottom would be the worst type of shoes to have on.

 

[carbuff]

There's no mention of what, if anything, he was wearing underneath the camo jacket. A t-shirt?

He might not have been wearing anything. When he was that age, my middle son always wanted to wear his denim jacket like a shirt.

 

[steelman]

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

This came to my FB 32 minutes ago

They're giving up, don't really blame 'em. That area isn't all that big, they've probably searched every square foot of it 5 times over by now.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

This came to my FB 32 minutes ago

I feel like LE is saying "We searched the area around the campground but we aren't searching any farther than X radius until we get a legimitate reason to". They don't know where else to search. Although they say they haven't ruled out stranger abduction, it feels like they need something more concrete before they order a search of the entire county (for instance).

 

[Hatfield]

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

This came to my FB 32 minutes ago

Thank you for this update.

Here are some key things I noticed from the update.

"After 10 days of searching, diving, and scouring the hillsides, the Sheriff’s Office has decided to redirect the investigation. "

"The family of DeOrr has continued to cooperate with law enforcement and has volunteered to take polygraphs, which is common in these types of investigations. "

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

 

[Donjeta]

I guess all the searches need to stop somewhere, sometime, but if it happened to be a stranger abduction it's a bit late to start investigating that angle now.

I still feel they need to return to the water bodies after some time to check again.

 

[MyBelle]

Thank you for this update.

Here are some key things I noticed from the update.

"After 10 days of searching, diving, and scouring the hillsides, the Sheriff’s Office has decided to redirect the investigation. "

"The family of DeOrr has continued to cooperate with law enforcement and has volunteered to take polygraphs, which is common in these types of investigations. "

https://www.facebook.com/LemhiCountySheriffsOffice?fref=nf

The results of the polys might also assist LE in the "redirection."

JMO

 

[Hatfield]

I guess all the searches need to stop somewhere, sometime, but if it happened to be a stranger abduction it's a bit late to start investigating that angle now.

I still feel they need to return to the water bodies after some time to check again.

If there is no foul play involved and i was related to that family it would be exactly at this time where I would have to form my own private search parties to begin searching further downstream and further up the sides of those mountains on both sides.

So long as the area is public terrain then private search parties is the route I would go because I could never just give up.

I can understand LE not being able to expend infinite resources since they have not found a reason to do that but it doesnt mean private groups would be stopped from doing that sort of thing.

I do wonder if LE has something more which is making them lean the way they did.

 

[Vail]

The thing is, though, there is no evidence of an accident. No evidence of neglect. I think the most likely scenario is an accidental drowning. But that, just like anything else, is a guess.


Look at William Tyrrell. He just vanished from an unlikely place. Somewhere that was considered safe. I think the parents will be being looked at by LE, but they don't owe anyone an explanation at this point in time.

You're right in that no one is owed an explanation. We shouldn't be asking for one either, but rather examining what we know to be true and questioning what we don't.

"Neglect" is probably relative in this context - I consider the alleged miscommunication to be neglectful here - no one was watching DeOrr from anywhere between 4 minutes to an hour based on family statements. The family neglected to keep track of him and now he is gone. The question I am pursuing isn't whether it happened at all or if it was criminal, but how and where. What are all the possibilities within about 1 hour? For example, how far can you drive in roughly 30 minutes with a truck or an ATV, and what would it take to search that radius, etc, if there are no tracks to and from the reservoir, how else could DeOrr have gotten there? (carried, etc) In examining all of these scenarios in order to pinpoint a good search location, we simply have to consider scenarios that suggest someone having full or partial knowledge of how DeOrr went missing or is deceased.

It has not been indicated that the vehicles at the scene were forensically searched or seized for examination. I don't even know if the site was investigated by a detective at all in the first 48 hours.