ID - DeOrr Kunz, Jr., 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #27

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Butler said:
Can some please post a link where there is an official statement stating there were three PHONES purchased?

I get this is a sleuthing site but please...think about what you are posting and how there are those who will see your post, and not any of the back posts, and then believe your statement to be fact. This case has been filled with misinformation, rumor, misstatements, misleading comments, and just plain false statements that it will be so much more difficult to solve as it is. Please don't add to it.
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Butler said:
And theories should be at least based on SOME factual knowledge. As to the THEORY of burner phones, there is NO factual knowledge to base this THEORY on.

I'm all for theories as to what could have happened to DeOrr but wild speculation without any factual basis does very little toward bringing this poor child home.
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Butler, I mean this with all due respect and I am not trying to sound rude at all, but is this the first case you have followed on WS? Because what we do here a lot of the time is speculate and put forth our own theories to try to connect the dots. Now, admittedly, sometimes people forget to make it clear this is their theory or to state "IMO", but people don't get away with posting non-facts and presenting them as facts. No one has stated they bought burner phones. Someone brought forth the theory, and others speculated based on that. Clearly, they should have added a few "IMO"'s to their posts, but I think anyone following along realizes they are just speculating.
 
I would love to be a fly on the wall of the prosecutors office. I imagine there has been at least one if not more than one convo between LE and the prosecutor.
Speculative conversation:
LE: We have A, B, C, and D.
Pros: I know, and that's good--but you need E, F, and G. Come back when you have those.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. I have great faith in LE in this case, and I have confidence that they will solve this, and bring to justice those responsible for baby Deorr's disappearance.
 
Cardinal47 said:
Just MOO but LE and Klein and FBI and LE know a whole lot more than we do or has been talked about and published. I think they know enough to make such a statement. They don't have enough to arrest and charge.

I wonder if all of them have taken what they do have to the Prosecutor? Many times remains are not found but they still take such a case to trial if the other evidence is strong enough.

A Prosecutor decides the chances of a conviction with what is presented to him/her.

My thought is they suspect from all they know but don't have enough to assure a conviction. They are looking for more than remains but not sure just what that is.
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I'm guessing they also need to know who to charge and with what. There are two suspects and one POI - what role did each play?
 
I've followed this since the news broke of the little boy that went missing during a camping trip, as I have always camped with my children and my little guy was the same age as little Doerr when he disappeared. To me it's absolutely unfathomable that any mother could leave their toddler with anyone, especially in that situation, in the wilderness, with a camp fire thats been stated the little guy was very interested in, and had been throwing things into, that wasn't #1. FULLY AWARE that they were not just keeping an eye on, but responsible for to keep them safe, & #2, was capable of keeping up with & interacting closely with the toddler who was very much mobile! While camping, which we do at least a couple weekends a month, I never let my little guy out of my sight, much less arms reach of him where things like open flames, steep embankments and vast wilderness are concerned. We have a permanent site, at a much less remote area, but there is open water, a beach, and almost always a fire going. If I do need to do something that takes my attention away from him, I am always very sure that someone else is purposefully watching him. I also am always sure to pack multiple outfits, changes of clothing, including things for unexpected weather changes. I'm interested to see what was inventoried in the bag brought along for Doerr. I have to say that I had originally thought that he was likely never actually at that camp site, but now think that he was indeed there, just not clumping around in boots that were too big! After hearing that there was a trailer incident of some kind on the way to the camp site, and hearing that they didn't arrive until it was getting dark, I think that it's likely that no one was paying attention to where the little guy was and he was accidentally backed over. As manyou have seen, there's a picture posted with him and Jessica in a vehicle sticking out their tongues. I REALLY want to know exactly when and where that was taken. It's clear he isnt buckled into his seat... im wondering if while the "guys" are out of their vehicles on the side of the road deciding what to do with the "trailer situation " Doerr wanted out of his seat, as they'd been driving for quite awhile, and she let him out to have a break from being in it. I know my little guy HATES being strapped in if we aren't moving and he absolutely doesn't need to be.... then For whatever reason Jessica gets out of the truck too, and he gets out of the truck or was allowed out, and in the commotion of moving vehicleservices around, he is run over. I have had to get behind the wheel before while my husband has me back up to the trailer etc and hooks it up, and know that I'm not very good at it nor all that comfortable doing it. Maybe V was directing her, didn't see Doerr and he was hit, or the other way around, making both feel responsible for what happened. Or, while setting up camp, behind schedule, in the dark, he was backed over then. If IR was in the other vehicle, or drinking, he may have missed the accident taking place and not truly know what happened. In my opinion it seems he is easily lead to believe or say things.

A couple other things I've found odd, the fact that IR is playing with a very large noticeable bullet during his interview. If he has a criminal record, including felonies, he wouldnt be allowed to own fire arms or ammunition woulds he? Wondering where the bullet came from and if he owns a gun for it.

The parents randomly deciding that around noon during their camping trip they have to leave to go get fuel, why? Why make a trip into town, using fuel needlessly, instead of waiting until they are headed out from their trip and fuel up then?

The issue of the three chargers is odd to me as well. I want to know if they were auto chargers, just the cords, and we're all 3 for the same type of phone, bought at the same time or at different times during the trip? Do the chargers all work? Did they have any other phone chargers with them other than the three that were purchased? What's their explination for buying them?

Not only do I not understand how a mother could be so careless about her child's safety and whereabouts while at the camp ground, I can not for the life of me fathom how Jessica has so easily moved on, remarried and made such a fool of herself on social media. I say that as a mother myself, not saying his father wasn't also responsible for him. I know without a doubt, if my little guy was missing, my call to 911 would be frantic and from that point on, I dont know how I'd go on functioning never mind living it up! A team of wild horses could not have pulled me away from that camp site had I thought my little guy had wandered off, and I'd be begging everyone and anyone to help fund him using his REAL NAME, and make sure all info was correct such as eye color etc!

Unfortunately, I dont think we will ever know exactly what happened unless one of the parents suddenly decides to come clean about it all, which if it means any type of consequences for them, just won't happen. As for finding the little boys remains, I think it will be just a random chance someone stumbles on them, and they won't be anywhere near that camp ground! I think the extra fuel was needed because of the extra trip they took to hide the little boy they should have put as much effort into caring for as they have covering up whatever happened to him!
 
seventeenseconds said:
Imo idt that they would waste their time or money buying burner phones. Plus the signal out sounds like it's kinda iffy. I think they may have found a little store with cheap chargers maybe?


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This could be true, but Klein made it seem like they were possibly bought at different places. He said three were bought between Idaho Falls and Leadore, then confirmed a charger was purchased at the stage shop. Perhaps all three were bought at the stage shop, but due to how his answers were phrased, I do not believe this to be the case.



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We had touched on a theory of a truck switcheroo in the past, this trailer troubles info brings me back to it.

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I'm really perplexed that both parents signed a form stating they can't testify against each other. IIRC someone asked this in Klein's q&a and he stated something to the effect it was the first time he had seen something like this. Anyone have any further knowledge about this? It's pretty key to getting the answers (true answers) as to what happened to Baby DeOrr.
Let's say he was struck with a car- why not just come forward if it was truly an accident??


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observation said:
I'm really perplexed that both parents signed a form stating they can't testify against each other. IIRC someone asked this in Klein's q&a and he stated something to the effect it was the first time he had seen something like this. Anyone have any further knowledge about this? It's pretty key to getting the answers (true answers) as to what happened to Baby DeOrr.
Let's say he was struck with a car- why not just come forward if it was truly an accident??


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Maybe they were doing something else illegal if an "accident" happened.


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observation said:
I'm really perplexed that both parents signed a form stating they can't testify against each other. IIRC someone asked this in Klein's q&a and he stated something to the effect it was the first time he had seen something like this. Anyone have any further knowledge about this? It's pretty key to getting the answers (true answers) as to what happened to Baby DeOrr.
Let's say he was struck with a car- why not just come forward if it was truly an accident??


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I don't think one can sign a document agreeing not to testify against someone. I believe a judge can compel anyone with information to testify. Their attorney has stated they both signed an agreement that for now, with no charges pending, they agree to be represented by the same attorney, basically waived conflict. Now if one or both were charged with a crime in this matter most likely they would need and get separate attorneys.
 
Butler said:
I don't think one can sign a document agreeing not to testify against someone. I believe a judge can compel anyone with information to testify. Their attorney has stated they both signed an agreement that for now, with no charges pending, they agree to be represented by the same attorney, basically waived conflict. Now if one or both were charged with a crime in this matter most likely they would need and get separate attorneys.
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Thanks- that makes a little more sense from that perspective.


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Butler said:
I don't think one can sign a document agreeing not to testify against someone. I believe a judge can compel anyone with information to testify. Their attorney has stated they both signed an agreement that for now, with no charges pending, they agree to be represented by the same attorney, basically waived conflict. Now if one or both were charged with a crime in this matter most likely they would need and get separate attorneys.
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...and prob set up a to help with fees!
 
Criminal Justice mom said:
. Snipped by me:

A couple other things I've found odd, the fact that IR is playing with a very large noticeable bullet during his interview. If he has a criminal record, including felonies, he wouldnt be allowed to own fire arms or ammunition woulds he? Wondering where the bullet came from and if he owns a gun for it.
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RSBM/BBM
It has been speculated that the item he is holding is an e-cig. They do make them shaped liked bullets (I goggled it.).
 
Elle*Bee said:
RSBM/BBM
It has been speculated that the item he is holding is an e-cig. They do make them shaped liked bullets (I goggled it.).
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Or possibly a cigarette lighter? They are also available shaped like a large bullet,
 
@Butler. You've told us a couple of times that you know Allen Browning (Vernal & Jessica's attorney) personally, I just wondered if you have had chance to discuss the case with him?
 
This thread will be closing in 10 minutes. Please get ready to make the move over to thread #28.

Thanks :)
 
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