ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

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When the investigators first arrived on the scene would they have not searched all the vehicles that were on scene at the time DeOrr went missing, the LE wouldn't have let a vehicle leave without it being searched would they?

I will assume that when the first police arrived on the scene that the adults were separated and each questioned as to the events that took place prior to DeOrr going missing, I will hope that they have all been questioned separetly several times since

IR is a sketchy dude, I don't know Idaho law but I do find it interesting all the different charges that have been filed against him, only to have the charges dropped, I sure hope that there isn't some good ole boy mentality in the area

If LE arrives somewhere because of a report of a lost child in the forest, do they immediately treat the area as a crime scene or immediately start a search? I think how the area was treated within the first few hours would play a large part in whether vehicles were searched at that time.

I have been thinking about the store "sighting" at 6 pm. Whether the clerk saw a crying boy with a man or not, I don't believe DK and DeOrr were there. I believe DK jumped on the clerk's sighting as proof that DeOrr was with them near the campsite that day. (He may have been with them, maybe not.) That DK has professed he believes DeOrr was kidnapped, although not entirely convincingly IMO, yet completely discounted the possibility that his child was seen with a stranger at a store between the campsite and the rest of civilization after the time he went missing is extremely fishy. He and JM called the sighting "a rumor". If it was my kid, I'd call it a "clue". Combine that with insisting (very defensively IMO) that he and his son were at the same store 5 hours earlier than the clerk sighting, although they went "as a family" and there was no mention of JM, is also fishy.

I'm reading a fascinating book right now called "I Know You Are Lying" by Mark McCish, so it is probably affecting my perspective. I highly recommend it.
 
If LE arrives somewhere because of a report of a lost child in the forest, do they immediately treat the area as a crime scene or immediately start a search? I think how the area was treated within the first few hours would play a large part in whether vehicles were searched at that time.

I have been thinking about the store "sighting" at 6 pm. Whether the clerk saw a crying boy with a man or not, I don't believe DK and DeOrr were there. I believe DK jumped on the clerk's sighting as proof that DeOrr was with them near the campsite that day. (He may have been with them, maybe not.) That DK has professed he believes DeOrr was kidnapped, although not entirely convincingly IMO, yet completely discounted the possibility that his child was seen with a stranger at a store between the campsite and the rest of civilization after the time he went missing is extremely fishy. He and JM called the sighting "a rumor". If it was my kid, I'd call it a "clue". Combine that with insisting (very defensively IMO) that he and his son were at the same store 5 hours earlier than the clerk sighting, although they went "as a family" and there was no mention of JM, is also fishy.

I'm reading a fascinating book right now called "I Know You Are Lying" by Mark McCish, so it is probably affecting my perspective. I highly recommend it.

I also read the McClish book and would highly recommend it too. I analyzed the interview using the pointers in the book but won't give my opinion at this time.
 
yeah, I have never thought it was an EMT bag...My ex-husband is a paramedic and he always called it a "jump kit"...but who knows...I think empty bag sounds more reasonable, but I don't have any idea why this whatever kind of bag it is even matters since they never did address it in the interview. They did say " We will get to THAT" but never did.

Which is the only reason I think it might actually be a "clue". In fact, anything that is called a "rumor" is suspect to me at this point, if only because the only "rumors" I've heard them mention is that DK's boss wasn't supportive and a store clerk reported seeing a little boy who looked like DeOrr hours after he disappeared. Those are the only two "rumors" DK saw fit to address. But he had plenty of time to talk about helicopters with infrared scopes and how amazing the searchers were who didn't find his child. (I am not criticizing the searchers, who by all accounts have been amazing. It's just very unusual for a parent to spend so much time praising SAR when their child is still missing. A few days would not usually be enough time to come to grips with the likelihood that your child is already dead, process your grief and move to the stage of thanking everyone for their efforts on your child's behalf. JMO)
 
^^ I am also really wondering about any ongoing search efforts. Is the family still up there searching? If my child was missing I would stay there searching for much longer than three weeks. (Maybe forever) Any local volunteers searches going on? I know LE said they would keep a presence. What does that mean?

The family has also said they believe their son was kidnapped and is no longer up on the mountain. If that's true, why stay there searching? I can see why you would want to stay the last place you saw your child, but why search if you are confident he's not there? Some time ago the family was asked to move away from the search area, but by now, maybe they have been allowed to move back. I'd like to know that, too. I saw in a MSM video clip about the vigil a few days after DeOrr disappeared that LE had asked DK, along with all the other volunteers, to go back to Idaho Falls. They only wanted the professionally trained SAR to look for the child.

(@1:25) http://www.localnews8.com/news/Family-holds-vigil-for-missing-toddler/34151958
 
I believe he said that he went 1/2 a mile down the road. I posted a map about this last night, showing that about 1/2 a mile down the road he would be out of the "bowl" that the campground sits in.

That's what I meant to say! Thanks for the correction! I'll try to edit my original post.
 
The local NBC affiliate, KTVB, in Boise, just had an interesting advertisement. It starts with Mark Johnson, a longtime reporter for the station, in the newsroom

Mark: "Very stories that we do capture the attention of the entire state. This one has."

*A missing poster of DeOrr comes on screen and various shots of the search are shown, including the picture of JM on the ATV, searchers on horseback, dog handlers, etc.

Mark continues: "Anytime a child goes missing, it's on all of our minds. We hear so many asking, 'How can I help?'"

He goes on to plug the station a bit, saying they're the only local station that sent reporters to the area.

Mark: "We did that so we could ask and answer the questions you have. And we will continue to watch closely as the search continues and we know you will, too."

Maybe we should send him our list of questions!
 
Does anyone have an insight into when, say, the FBI would become involved in a missing child case? Is that pretty standard?

The KTVB spot/ad that I mentioned earlier seemed like they were trying to let viewers know that they were still following it even if it may seem otherwise since there's been nothing to report. Again, the total lack of exposure contradicts the normal strategy for abduction cases. Since neither LE nor the family are engaging in any activities to widely publicize information about little DeOrr (and his eye color is still wrong on the National Center of Missing and Exploited Children site) as is recommended in abduction, could one safely eliminate stranger abduction as a likely angle they are working?
 
Investigation question.

If someone goes missing from some place far from home, is that person's house searched? Would witnesses' homes be searched? Would relatives' homes be searched? I would think so but not sure.

I would not think that witneses or relatives homes would be searched unless they gave permission for them to be searched or if LEOs had gotten warrants (which I'd doubt would be easy to get unless there were clear indications that evidence might be found).
 
Does anyone have an insight into when, say, the FBI would become involved in a missing child case? Is that pretty standard?

The KTVB spot/ad that I mentioned earlier seemed like they were trying to let viewers know that they were still following it even if it may seem otherwise since there's been nothing to report. Again, the total lack of exposure contradicts the normal strategy for abduction cases. Since neither LE nor the family are engaging in any activities to widely publicize information about little DeOrr (and his eye color is still wrong on the National Center of Missing and Exploited Children site) as is recommended in abduction, could one safely eliminate stranger abduction as a likely angle they are working?

I had a good link to the FBI's site regarding what they investigate but I can't find it. If memory serves, I think they only get involved in kidnappings and human trafficking. They will, however, at least lend some expertise in way of advisement.
 
Investigation question.

If someone goes missing from some place far from home, is that person's house searched? Would witnesses' homes be searched? Would relatives' homes be searched? I would think so but not sure.
In a missing person's case, the answer is usually no. A search warrant has to be issued and they need probable cause to search anyone's home including the missing person unless there is a qualified reason to do so. They can search with permission of the home's owner, but usually they prefer a SW if there is any doubt about the case.

This doesn't mean they aren't going to search in the vicinity of the home without much publicity. I would have to assume this is already ongoing and media simply has not honed in on it yet.
 
I had a good link to the FBI's site regarding what they investigate but I can't find it. If memory serves, I think they only get involved in kidnappings and human trafficking. They will, however, at least lend some expertise in way of advisement.

Perhaps this is the one you are thinking of. FBI Ready Alert team for Missing children.

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac/card

Child Abduction Rapid Deployment (CARD) Teams
CARD team logo

It is the mission of the FBI’s Violent Crimes Against Children program to provide a quick and effective response to all incidents of crimes against children. The first few hours after a child is abducted are critical, and that is why we established Child Abduction Rapid Deployment (CARD) Teams in October 2005.

CARD Teams are designed to deploy teams of experienced personnel to provide on-the-ground investigative, technical, and resource assistance to state and local law enforcement. CARD Teams consist of Violent Crimes Against Children investigators who have in-depth experience in child abduction cases. The nationwide CARD Team consists of more than 60 members, with five teams serving each region of the country. The teams work closely with FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit representatives, National Center for the Analysis of Violent Crime coordinators, and Child Exploitation Task Force members.
 
I'm thinking EMT bag would be said E. M. T. bag (like the letters in the alphabet) but the word "empty" would sound completely different. I have not listened to the video (sorry!) so don't know how it sounded on there. Otherwise it would be M.T. bag and then initials would/could come into play.

That seems more what they would be talking about rather than and EMT bag.

Too bad the conversation is not transcripted.
 
I had a good link to the FBI's site regarding what they investigate but I can't find it. If memory serves, I think they only get involved in kidnappings and human trafficking. They will, however, at least lend some expertise in way of advisement.
The FBI will help in almost any case providing they are invited in by the governing agency. They can offer expertise, provide lab and other services small departments may not have ready access to in some areas, and be part of the team in order to cover all the bases in the event it turns into more. They don't take the lead role unless it is determined to be a Federal investigation.

I am surprised the FBI has not been called in on this case by now. Their resources would be helpful in this situation.
 
I don't necessarily think he fell in the creek, but I live in a creek-y area, and creeks can be pretty dangerous. If rain is heavy, they can become quite swollen and fast-moving. They can also have serious mud -- my husband and I were ATVing and drove through a creek once, and I ended up stuck in the mud up to mid-thigh (and I'm not short). I lost both my shoes and honestly thought that we were going to have to call professionals to get me out of that mud. The mud is sticky and sucky and scary. I would not be terribly comfortable with a small kid playing unattended/unwatched around a creek.
In the summer, The creeks in that area are shallow and not muddy. The area is on the edges of the dessert. It is dry, rocky, sandy soil. The creeks are very clear. I don't think there were heavy rains around the time he went missing,
 
That seems more what they would be talking about rather than and EMT bag.

Too bad the conversation is not transcripted.

A transcript wouldn't help. It would end up being whatever the transcriber thought they heard. Just like us.
 
Good thinking---I think you may be right---empty bag!

But how would anyone else know? I know LE would obviously know but I got the idea from the interview it was something people were talking/gossiping about on SM. I do think if there's an empty bag there for Deorr it would be something people would be suspicious about - I even thought this might be it - but I don't know how anyone other than those at the campsite and LE would know about it.
 
If LE arrives somewhere because of a report of a lost child in the forest, do they immediately treat the area as a crime scene or immediately start a search? I think how the area was treated within the first few hours would play a large part in whether vehicles were searched at that time.

I've been wondering about this but never articulated it. If it was immediately treated as a crime scene then the lack of evidence is alarming. If it was treated like a search scene then any and all evidence would/could have been trampled by ATVs, horses, vehicles and people.

I've begun to wonder if the drones found something and it's being kept quiet so the parents can grieve in peace. Yeah, I'm desperate here.
 
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