ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #5

Discussion in 'DeOrr Kunz, Jr.' started by bessie, Jul 27, 2015.

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  1. tlcya

    tlcya Old and Tired Websleuth

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    I have a tendency to call young male children little man or Mr. man and young child females little lady or little princess. I consider it a term of endearment. But that is just me.
     


  2. 1&2&3

    1&2&3 Well-Known Member

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    Thank you ILOKAL for your post ^^^^^. That story is SO similar to little Deorr's disappearance with the facts we know now, it is scary! Just substitute Deorr's name and the story might be the same. Coincidence?

    Thinking along the fact of a mountain lion, if Deorr had seen it in a distance, he may have walked towards it thinking it was a big dog. Wonder if he was afraid of dogs?
     
  3. teeandcee

    teeandcee Well-Known Member

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    Well, you know I agree with you, lol. Interesting that there were no drag marks or blood or prints or noises from the victim in the above case, especially considering how much larger this child was.

    Here is a very interesting quote from the article that I did NOT know regarding search dogs: "The big cats also can deflect the attention of search dogs that are trained, for safety reasons, to not lead humans to sites when dangerous animals are nearby." I don't know if this is all search dogs or just those particular dogs he's referencing.
     
  4. Cardinal47

    Cardinal47 Well-Known Member

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    Abigail Hernandez the FBI were there the morning after she went missing.
     
  5. flourish

    flourish Now With 30% More Emo

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    That's what we call my stepson-to-be. Little man or little bit. As a teacher, I've heard lots of boys called that.
     
  6. jashrema

    jashrema Verified insider - Sierah Joughin case

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    Gitana...to address your points..

    I know of nowhere in the Lindbergh law that states that it is federal law that they be notified immediately upon a missing child. Lindbergh gives interstate jurisdiction, the 24 hour lapse (but that does NOT prevent them from intervening sooner.) and addresses punishment. I see nowhere where it states that local pd is commanded by federal law to report a missing child to the FBI .please cite federal law statute that states that clearly for my own benefit if you would.
    The FBI is responsible for investigating any apparent violations of FEDERAL LAW. What federal law has been broken here? None that we know of. The sheriff (or other official) has obviously asked the FBI to "help" and assist in their investigation as it stands now. According to federal law, the FBI must be INVITED in instances of a police officer being killed, a serial killer and one other crime that I can't remember at this time.
    There is no evidence of interstate flight, there is no evidence of a murder or even assault, there's no evidence of anything that we know of. The only thing we know for sure is that no one knows or is saying where this child is. Acknowledging that there is no "federal crime" here as of yet, The FBI will initiate a kidnapping investigation involving a missing child “of tender years,” even though there is no known interstate aspect. “Tender years” is generally defined as a child 12 years or younger. The FBI will monitor other kidnapping situations when there is no evidence of interstate travel, and it offers assistance from various entities including the FBI Laboratory. Per FBI.gov
    Our field offices respond to cases involving the mysterious disappearance of a child whenever and however they come to our attention. All reports of circumstances indicating that a minor has or possibly has been abducted are afforded an immediate preliminary inquiry.

    In this initial inquiry, we evaluate all evidence, circumstances, and information to determine if an investigation is warranted under federal law. (For instance, it is a federal violation for a person to travel between states to engage in any sexual act with a person under 18.) If a case is warranted, we will immediately open an investigation in partnership with state and local authorities.

    Notice that their own website says that they will only OPEN a preliminary inquiry NOT an investigation. The FBI investigating the missing child will ONLY happen if once they gather all the info and evidence it warrants a federal investigation. By the sheriff's own words, the FBI is NOT investigating, they are HELPING. Which they were obviously requested to do otherwise they wouldn't be there!

    https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac/non-family-abductions

    To address your spec that maybe they were called in at the onset and only NOW are intigating an investigation is incorrect because they are NOT instigating a federal investigation. They are assisting local LE per sheriff's statement. The FBI did not determine that they need to be involved because THAT would be real news. They did not determine anything..they are involved because LE asked them to be. That's just how it works. Trust me...if the FBI was OFFICIALLY involved from the start or officially entering the game at this point, daddy deorr would be singing from the rooftops.

    As for saying that I'm rude because I used the phrase<mod snip>...that's my opinion of Lynn Bowerman because of the following "facts"
    1. He did NOT secure the scene. He didn't even entertain the fact that there could be something else going on besides a missing child because he launched a full scale search WITH civilians immediately. Now of course, you have to search but there was no "crime scene" cordoned off because he assumed there was NO crime committed and that is an inept assumption in my opinion. Any crime that may have been committed is so contaminated now that nothing useful will come from it.
    2. Making public statements 48 hours later that "I'm okay with them and they're okay with me" in regards to the parents was reckless, stupid and sounded completely unprofessional. It brings up visions of the "good ol boy" mentality. Anyone who MAY have been a possible witness could then tell themselves..."Oh, I guess what I saw didn't really matter because the sheriff has "cleared" the parents. He didn't actually state they were cleared, he implied it as you and everyone else knows and assumes, and yes, I know people shouldn't assume but in the real world they do all the time.
    3. Sheriff states that the parents have "offered to take polys and give DNA but HE DOESN'T give them polys or take their DNA. Why not? Isn't that one of the first things you should do? It sounds as if they're okay in his book cuz they "offered" and gee whiz...guilty people don't offer do they? Well, turns out they never did take a poly with him OR give DNA. If they did..he should state it and maybe lessen the appearance of him being incompetent. As I stated before, look to Mark Klaas as to how a parent doesn't become a POI or a suspect. You RUN to LE and take a poly and do ANYTHING they ask...immediately.
    4. For the sheriff to NOT release any info at all is also begging the question, "Does he know what he's doing" from the average person.
    5. I realize that the sheriff cannot force them to take a poly but to publicly state that he "heard" they took one but does not know the results makes him look unprofessional and incompetent. What? He doesn't know the results? He doesn't know when they took it? Is he in contact with them at all? IMO, he looks really doofus now.
    6. The sheriff has gone from saying they are not suspects or even POI until almost 3 weeks later where the parents and friend becomes POI. Not grandpa because he is declining mentally. So? So does that mean he didn't even question grandpa? Does grandpa even know he was camping? WTH? Unless he was in a coma, the sheriff should have stated grandpa was questioned and RULED OUT as a POI or a suspect since he has been deemed incompetent from a medical professional. If he had that done, he should have stated that. The fact that he DID not say that shows me more ineptness on his part. Of course they are at least POI, why not say that in the beginning? They were the only ones there when DJ disappeared according to them. That makes them POI AND SUSPECTS for crying out loud. But LE is being very careful language-wise to not say the word..suspect. Any LE worth a grain of salt would treat the people there as POI for sure, but they would NOT rule them out as suspects till they figure out what happened.
    7. Sheriff says he wasn't abducted and that DJ is 100% not in the water and not been kidnapped.
    8. Sheriff says they can't rule out abduction.
    9. Sheriff stresses he has "not one clue" as to what happened. Well, okay...I guess that makes you clueless in every sense of the word and I'm not joking.
    10. Sheriff does not tell or speak out about the sighting at 6PM by the store clerk of dirty child and man in black truck. The parents brought that up for gods sake. The only tip sheriff talks about it the Walmart? sighting and states after reviewing video it was not DJ. Fine. What about the sighting at corner store at 6PM?? Just dropped. NEVER to be addressed by him again as far as I know. If I'm wrong, anybody correct me please.
    11. The sheriff states that "public should leave them be" Why? Would he think the public would not be interested in the fact that 1 of the POI was arrested for felony rape and had it knocked down to a domestic violence? Hmmm...I would be interested to know that. But still...sheriff says he is treating THAT guy "just like the family" What? Why? Explain?
    12. Sheriff then doubles back and announces that EVERYBODY there is now a POI. Good Lord, I mean really, GOOD LORD.
    13. Sheriff announces that FBI is coming into help. 3 frickin weeks later. He had to have extended an "invite" so to speak cuz the feds would have been there already if they thought a federal crime had taken place. Feds are NOT INVESTIGATING, they are there to lend assistance. MAJOR difference between the 2. Sheriff states DJ had absolutely not been kidnapped...feds are there at request to help. No evidence of federal crime.

    I could go on but there are just some of the "facts" that make ME think he literally has NO CLUE.

    Over the years I have entertained in my home and had numerous close friends that are FEDS, local LE, undercovers, judges, prosecutors and defense attorneys. Simply because of what my husband did for a living and I Know you know this Gitana...in the REAL world it IS all about who can *iss the farthest. That is just a fact. It's incredibly naive to think otherwise and the average person is well aware of police screw ups, corruption, cover-ups, nepotism, etc...that is just a FACT of life in the LE world. Based on MY experience and gee...everything you read in the newspapers and here on the media. I KNOW what a decent cop goes thru..I KNOW what haunts them and why cause I lived with it, I KNOW there are good men and women on the force, and I know they are ready to give their lives to protect others. I appreciate and respect LE most of the time..but there are "bad" or just plain inexperienced ones too. And when they know they are in over their head or they screw up..they should ask for help immediately, but sadly..much to often, they do not. Ego, pride, embarrassment, etc. kicks in. I feel this is one of those times.
    So..will not apologize for the<MODSNIP> My opinion and I'm sticking to it.
     
  7. KALI

    KALI Well-Known Member

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    Calling a boy child a "little man" has been popular for at least 15 years. Very commen in the USA.

     
  8. ILOKAL

    ILOKAL New Member

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    Coincidence? Yeah, right!! I find it highly unlikely Little Deorr saw the mountain lion. It is not unusual for mountain lions to stalk (observe) their "prey" for an hour or more. The lion was probably in the tree line when the family returned from town and observed Deorr at that time. As soon as Deorr was alone, the opportunistic lion made his move.
     
  9. ILOKAL

    ILOKAL New Member

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    Yes, and the child was taken to a location that was, I believe, three miles away. Yep, no drag marks, no blood, no prints, no noise, NOTHING! He simply vanished, just-like-that!

    Another poster questioned about possible avoidance of the lions by search dogs but don't know if this was what she meant.

    Amazing!
     
  10. starfire

    starfire Member

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    Unless the parents said "please search our house and vehicle(s), we want to be cleared" and LE took them up on it (or LE asked them if they could and they said okay), I am assuming a search warrant was served. If a search warrant was served, does that mean probable cause was found and a judge approved the warrant? Can the probable cause simply be that their child is missing, or would it be deeper than that (criminal)?
     
  11. Cardinal47

    Cardinal47 Well-Known Member

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    :highfive::highfive: I was looking for 'Best Posting Of The Day" but this will have to do!
     
  12. jmcgladr

    jmcgladr Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, maybe they should bring in some dogs trained in cougar hunting to search the area. They would have the opposite tendency and would follow any cougar scent tracks. Mind you, it might be too late at this point...
     
  13. Damarna

    Damarna Well-Known Member

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    Hubby calls our almost 4 year old grandson "little man." For example, today the grandkids came for the weekend. As the guys headed out to visit the mini pony and donkey I hear my husband say, "come on Little man!" Term of endearment.
     
  14. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    Hi Cats. I don't blindly believe in what LE says either. I am a very logical person. I know quite a bit about human behavior. And LE missing person investigations. And what's typical and what's not. And how LE conduct and/or POI behaviors line up with the eventual outcomes of a case.

    Show me something that evidences that LE in THIS case have had accusations of corruption or ineptitude - four different agencies involved in the investigation (3 sheriffs departments and one police department) and show me how protocols were flatly ignored in this case, and then I will listen to LE bashing. Otherwise it is just horrible bashing. And it is rude and uncalled for.

    I have seen corruption in some cases. I have seen lying LE. I work with a criminal defense attorney. I see what goes on. Show me evidence of any of that here.

    IMO, it is not right to say, "Well, because I know some cops are corrupt or inept, I will start there until they prove to me they're not."
     
  15. persimmon

    persimmon New Member

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  16. JLSChook

    JLSChook Well-Known Member

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    http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...zales-9-San-Bernardino-Mountains-31-July-2004

    I'm reading the thread that ILOKAL gave us, and this is amazing. Post #23:

    Sounds familiar, huh? (My bold)

    I hope it's okay that I brought that over.
     
  17. gitana1

    gitana1 Verified Attorney

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    In 1932 or whenever it was initially passed, the Lindbergh act held that parents could NOT kidnap their own kids and the law, which outlaws interstate kidnapping, makes it a federal crime and thus allows for federal jurisdiction, could not apply to parents. At all.

    Since then, the Lindbergh act can also apply to parents who kidnap and do not have lawful custody.

    But unless the FBI has direct evidence that a child who has mysteriously disappeared has been taken by a parent with lawful custody, it can assume jurisdiction under the Lindbergh act.

    Also, there needs to be zero evidence of an interstate abduction for the FBI to be involved. You cited that yourself earlier: "In 1932, Congress gave the FBI jurisdiction under the &#8220;Lindbergh Law&#8221; to immediately investigate any reported mysterious disappearance or kidnapping involving a child of &#8220;tender age&#8221;&#8212;usually 12 or younger. And just to be clear, before we get involved, there does not have to be a ransom demand and the child does not have to cross state lines or be missing for 24 hours." (The proximity to Montana is irrelevant to their involvement. That would be relevant if the missing person was an adult). https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/vc_majorthefts/cac/non-family-abductions

     
  18. ClaireNC

    ClaireNC Well-Known Member

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    Has this been posted yet? http://www.eastidahonews.com/2015/07/parents-of-deorr-kunz-we-pray-our-lil-man-will-be-found/

     
  19. JLSChook

    JLSChook Well-Known Member

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    ^^ A couple times. Lol :)
     
  20. JLSChook

    JLSChook Well-Known Member

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    Post #62 from the same thread I linked earlier

    Tried to link the original story, but the link is dead. It's been a long time.
     
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