ID - DeOrr Kunz Jr, 2, Timber Creek Campground, 10 July 2015 - #6

[wondering25]

hypothetically an emt bag could be large enough to put a small child in unnoticed. They have them for sale on Amazon, stocked or empty..anyone can buy the bag. It would be interesting to know if the bag was stolen from a first responder.

There are emt and then advanced emt aka PARAMEDICS.. here is a drug list they may carry:

Atropine Sulfate, 0.1 mg/1 ml, 10 ml per mfg Epinephrine 1:10000, 0.1mg/ml, 10 ml per mfg
Dopamine Medicated IV Drip Epinephrine 1/1000, 1mg/ml, 1 ml per mfg
Calcium Chloride 10%, 10 ml vial Lidocaine 2%, 20 mg/ml, 5 ml per mfg
Diphenhydramine, 50 mg/ml, 1 ml per mfg Lidocaine Medicated IV Drip
Sodium Bicarbonate Preload Diltiazem – (Cardizem®, Dilacor®, Tiazac®)
Morphine 10 mg vial/carpuject Magnesium Sulfate 1 gm vial
Fentanyl 100 mcg vial Demerol 100 mg vial/carpuject
Valium 5 mg vial/carpuject Midazolam – (Versed®) 5 mg vial

http://nasemso.org/documents/IEMTG_WFExSOP_V5.26_091.pdf

 

[wondering25]

I agree that demeanor affects public perception. But I disagree that public perception is wrong about lawyering up or that lawyering up is self preservation 101. As a parent, doing whatever it takes to get your baby back IS self preservation. Including talking to cops whenever and how often they like, without a lawyer. IMO. My non-professional opinion.

That's human behavior 101. I have never seen an innocent parent grab a lawyer and refuse to talk without one present at the outset of a missing kid case. Lots of guilty ones, but not innocent.

No innocent parent would even begin to think about their own, personal liberties or rights in the face of the nuclear bomb that a missing child creates in their lives. Unless they are toyally sociopathic and don't care about their kids.

Parents, innocent and guilty alike will of course cooperate with "facts" in the first hours. Then the inevitable starts.. as in polygraphs..innocent people flunk them.. guilty people beat them.. and then there is the dreaded "inconclusive" result. LE is under no obligation to believe your facts.. whether it is a missing child, a dead spouse or a questionable accident. Playing the "you dont care about your kids card" is manipulative, imo. At the point where they want to clear you ( and they never really clear those closest to the victim anyway), you get a lawyer. Too many innocent people in jail as we know... If polygraphs were so conclusive, they would use them in every divorce case where a spouse alleges wrong doing.. polygraphs are generally not admissible in court. Furthermore, when does a POI decide they are tired and have spent hours being interviewed by the police and want to stop and go home? that is also when you need to say i want a lawyer.. Lawyers aren't just for trying cases.. they are for advice "Attorney and Counselor at law". Never be lulled into "the cop is my friend".. in a case like this everyone is under a cloud. JMO

 

[ClaireNC]

Wouldn't an EMT bag be something that is often stolen if left in a vehicle? The person stealing it wouldn't necessarily know what is in the bag, just that the bag may contain something valuable. A druggie looking for drugs wouldn't stop and inspect the bag right there, they would take it someplace to go through it.

I once had a brief case stolen from my car. There was nothing valuable in it. Just papers. It was found a week or so later thrown on the side of the road.

I personally don't think the EMT bag is any way related to Deorr's disappearance. It sounds to me like it was an unrelated crime of opportunity that was blown out of proportion by the gossiping public.

 

[pepelepolecat]

The posts above will fill you in. We are speculating and talking hypotheticals. ��

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk

TY for clarifying. Maybe it was too late last night when I read them, but I completely missed that it was all speculation.

 

[TeaTime]

I am going to speculate that the 'EMT' bag was used as an emergency aid kit by the family and taken to the campground for that purpose.

I agree that no one should go without legal counsel when involved in such a serious matter as a missing child, if for no other reason than to have procedures and laws explained. It doesn't mean you can't cooperate with LE it just means that when you have questions you do not have to rely on LE's answers. The lawyer is on your side, LE is on the side of the state and LE has lawyers.

 

[*JMO*]

I find it interesting because it shows us that there were other people out and about up there during the time DeOrr got lost. I was feeling that there were no other vehicles around but looks like there were. And one of them was actually lurking about, looking into places to break into. So that is a red flag right there. JMO

I agree. And hypothetically, it would suggest two different parties- the victim (or victims) that had the vehicle broken into and the perp (or more) that did the breaking in.

Depending on the location of the breakin that would raise a lot of questions regarding who was around there at the time of the camping trip and also suggest that there was someone in the vicinity with some criminal intentions, even if it was only burglary type.

 

[ILOKAL]

I agree. And hypothetically, it would suggest two different parties- the victim (or victims) that had the vehicle broken into and the perp (or more) that did the breaking in.

Depending on the location of the breakin that would raise a lot of questions regarding who was around there at the time of the camping trip and also suggest that there was someone in the vicinity with some criminal intentions, even if it was only burglary type.

WAS there a break-in or is this merely "speculation"? It sure SOUNDS "fact" based, to me.

 

[wondering25]

I agree. And hypothetically, it would suggest two different parties- the victim (or victims) that had the vehicle broken into and the perp (or more) that did the breaking in.

Depending on the location of the break in that would raise a lot of questions regarding who was around there at the time of the camping trip and also suggest that there was someone in the vicinity with some criminal intentions, even if it was only burglary type.

It would seem the EMT would have his bag with him.. he is not necessarily a searcher.. he is there to provide medical assistance.. so his bag may have been on the ground in the campsite.. not necessarily in a vehicle .. but if one was "missing" regardless..there is a theft...if there is even one missing..did the interview say emt bag or missing EMT bag?

 

[white rabbit]

just because I've missed a few threads, can someone verify that all the "EMT bag" and "break-in" posts are speculation? or did I miss a news article somewhere? which is highly likely lol...TIA!

 

[Vail]

To preface, I am only posting this info to clear up questions and hopefully deter further speculation about the EMT bag. My apologies to mods in advance - I am not trying to break rules

According to JM's mother TC, an EMT bag was stolen out of a truck, which had its back window broken in. This was posted on Facebook as a response to another commenter's question under a post about DeOrr on the News 8 Facebook page. If you sort by Most Recent on that post, find a comment by a KG, expand it, then Ctrl F for Trina or look for her answers. She does not specify when it happened, or whose truck it was. Due to the nature of this information, while it comes from a family member, it cannot be taken as fact but only her word and we technically can't discuss it further until MSM can get it on record.

 

[white rabbit]

thank you vail...

 

[desert-blue]

I personally don't think the EMT bag is any way related to Deorr's disappearance. It sounds to me like it was an unrelated crime of opportunity that was blown out of proportion by the gossiping public.

What I don't get is that NO ONE on any board or SM or anything that I've read has heard anything or knew anything about these so-called "rumors." Who exactly was gossiping or whatever? The locals in Leadore? The searchers? And if was so gossipy, wouldn't someone have shared these rumors at some point during these past three weeks on SM (especially since so many people have been conjecturing and trying to figure out their significance)? Not one person on any SM has been able to say what the rumors actually were because no one knows or has heard anything. The only person who has shed any light is TBC and that was just recently. Rumors and gossip normally spread like wildfire - in order to feel the need to clear up a rumor, the rumor ought not be some unknown tidbit of information that no one has even heard. That makes no sense to me. We still really have no idea the significance of the EMT bag. Is the rumor that JM and DK were responsible for the theft? Is the rumor that the stolen EMT bag was found at their campsite? Is the rumor that some of the supplies from the EMT bag were found at their campsite? Is the rumor that only the actual bag, and not the supplies, was stolen? It goes on and on - there are a million scenarios. Somehow it has to relate to the case or there would be no point in even bringing it up, but that's just my opinion. I think whatever happened, it happened either Thursday night or Friday before Deorr was reported missing, but that is purely speculation on my part. It doesn't make sense for it to have happened after he went missing, imo. And it doesn't necessarily mean that is has to do with the parents either - it could be IR, or it could just be plain old coincidence but there has to be something that someone might think would link it to the case. MOO.

ETA: didn't see Vail's post until after I wrote this - if it's not okay, delete it. It's not so much based on TBC's comments - more just trying to figure out why it's a "rumor"

 

[*JMO*]

What I don't get is that NO ONE on any board or SM or anything that I've read has heard anything or knew anything about these so-called "rumors." Who exactly was gossiping or whatever? The locals in Leadore? The searchers? And if was so gossipy, wouldn't someone have shared these rumors at some point during these past three weeks on SM (especially since so many people have been conjecturing and trying to figure out their significance)? Not one person on any SM has been able to say what the rumors actually were because no one knows or has heard anything. The only person who has shed any light is TBC and that was just recently. Rumors and gossip normally spread like wildfire - in order to feel the need to clear up a rumor, the rumor ought not be some unknown tidbit of information that no one has even heard. That makes no sense to me. We still really have no idea the significance of the EMT bag. Is the rumor that JM and DK were responsible for the theft? Is the rumor that the stolen EMT bag was found at their campsite? Is the rumor that some of the supplies from the EMT bag were found at their campsite? Is the rumor that only the actual bag, and not the supplies, was stolen? It goes on and on - there are a million scenarios. Somehow it has to relate to the case or there would be no point in even bringing it up, but that's just my opinion. I think whatever happened, it happened either Thursday night or Friday before Deorr was reported missing, but that is purely speculation on my part. It doesn't make sense for it to have happened after he went missing, imo. And it doesn't necessarily mean that is has to do with the parents either - it could be IR, or it could just be plain old coincidence but there has to be something that someone might think would link it to the case. MOO.

ETA: didn't see Vail's post until after I wrote this - if it's not okay, delete it. It's not so much based on TBC's comments - more just trying to figure out why it's a "rumor"

I think the "rumors" being addressed in that interview were responding to community "talk". I am just speculating from things I've read online, but I think there were questions raised regarding the family by locals involved in the search. I think anytime a search is made up of community members (especially in a small town) then you will have more of that kind of thing than in a larger city where the searchers are not necessarily familiar with the family or each other.

I agree with you that I don't think there was even one social media site or comment on any articles that raised questions about a EMT bag until the interview. Having the question ignored, either on purpose or by accidental omission, just made it more of a topic than addressing it probably would have.

Also, given the absence of info of much substance of any kind forthcoming, any available details are going to be discussed at length in trying to figure out what could have happened...because that is all we have. There are just bits and pieces in this one that we have to go on and try to fit together.

 

[*JMO*]

AS far as GGP it could have been a couple of reasons to include him. If it is a family that likes to camp perhaps doing this as a group is something they have always done. Maybe this was a new spot to baby Deorr's parents but they had heard GGP mention that he had been there years ago and it was a great spot, etc.

Perhaps, GGP can no longer drive so he told them he would have a friend come along (maybe knowing the friend likes to fish) so they could meet them there.

Some families have small homes that are not conducive to guests and hotels are not in the budget, so camping may be a way to have family visits in a beautiful setting.

Maybe GGP has a camper that can be pulled on his vehicle that can be used by the family which would be another reason to invite him. In our family, the ones with the most gear to share get invited more often!

My long winded point is that having GGP along in itself is not really so unusual, especially if they are family that gets together this way routinely.

 

[Cardinal47]

I find it interesting because it shows us that there were other people out and about up there during the time DeOrr got lost. I was feeling that there were no other vehicles around but looks like there were. And one of them was actually lurking about, looking into places to break into. So that is a red flag right there. JMO

I too thought nobody was around but now it looks like maybe there were other people there.

Didn't somebody here say earlier they had camped there? I wonder if anybody familiar with that campground could tell us..are there people around or are you completely isolated from everybody? TIA

 

[Hejlena]

More speculation based on my very limited information about what the whole EMT bag story actually is… But if someone has a history of drug use, it's possible that the bag contained a "kit"....js

 

[Hatfield]

This case is so sad and also very strange because the boy is missing and there seems to be no answers from FBI or LE yet as to what has happened to him.

What adds to the strangeness is the few "facts" we have are very confusing. It is not very clear and a lot of things are "muddy" about just the basics.

In an effort to try to help clear up some of the basics it may be helpful to list just the "muddy" items. So am going to list just the things which were not clear enough to know what happened.

-We dont know for sure how many vehicles drove to the camping area. Most likely 2 and maybe even 3.

-We dont know if all the vehicles drove in a train OR did they all arrange to meet at the campground.

-We dont know what day or time anybody arrived at the campground

-We know at least some other unknown people were near the camping area because we had cremain dumpers and we had an alleged theft of an EMT bag. But we dont know how many other people were in the vicinity. Was it just these 2 other unknown people or were there other unknown campers or fisherman nearby.
Its a mystery how many other unknown people were nearby at the time of him going missing.

-When Deorr jr. went missing and 911 calls made, we dont know who and how many vehicles were still remaining at the campsite.

-When emergency people responded we dont know who and how many vehicles were still at the campsite to meet them. We can assume at least the parents and 1 truck were still there to meet them but beyond that it is just not clear if anybody was still at the campsite.

To expand on this point, consider this option. It could be that nobody besides the parents were still at the campsite to meet the emergency people. If somebody that was there initially realizes LE is about to arrive and they were afraid of LE they may have said "Im sorry but I need to go".

There are many people that dont want to ever confront LE in any capacity.

The point is we just dont know one way or the other. It is another unknown.

-We dont know about the alleged sighting at the store of the boy and a man. Was it them or not them? Was the time 6 or not 6?
Was the day the day before?

-We dont know if an ATV was brought as part of the camping trip.

-We dont know about any camping or fishing gear that was brought. We dont even know about any other items that would be typical for a camping trip.

-We dont know if a tent was setup when boy went missing.

-We dont know if a campfire was going when he went missing.

- And we can add other unknowns to this list.

I am not sure how this helps us except to point out that these unknowns become important and it also adds to why a lot of people have questions about this case. There are a lot of basic things that we just dont know anything about what happened.

All we basically have is some people decided to go camping and a boy is missing.

 

[AmyPond]

I haven't been following this case very closely at all but just stopped in to see if anything new is known. Based on the above post...it looks like very little is known at all. How sad and frustrating. I hope LE at least knows more than we do!

 

[Cardinal47]

I don't think we will hear another word until an arrest is made and that will be done based on what evidence local LE and FBI have or are yet to obtain.

I am not sure but I think it was just announced on last Friday that the FBI was involved.

So now we wait. BTW how does Idaho work as far as a missing person presumed dead but no body?

Seems some states are able to push forward while others are hesitant unless they have...remains of the person missing.

Just wondering about Idaho???

 

[Cardinal47]

Just sitting her pondering little DeOrr's disappearance and how so many people have become involved in the SM arena.

I was wondering if this case will become as large as was the missing Caylee Anthony?

MOO is that this will become similar to the missing Lisa Irwin or Haleigh Dunn cases as far as how it will run.

I believe a beautiful little boy or girl missing with an interesting case of involved relatives and perhaps the way they handle media plays a huge role in how these cases are received by John J Public.

MOO and just pondering thoughts.