ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #67

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Cool Cats said:
Do you know what was meant by these statements?

"dropping the charges" and "smaller quantum of prejudice"
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I've just listened to the hearing, and in my opinion, it's not relevant to this case. The judge was just citing rulings made in other cases, case precedents, in going through options available to him. He decided the appropriate sanction was to remove the death penalty, and if evidence needs to be excluded as a result of late disclosure he will deal with that through any subsequent motions in limine filed by the defense.

That's my understanding,

MOO
 
Nikynoo said:
I also agree, but I think both will be found guilty of all charges. Taking what we know from Chads PH, and the release of calls, CCTV and Loris demeanour when caught in Hawaii and subsequent extradition to Idaho, she knew they were dead and I fully believe she killed them herself.

ETA I also think she justified each death in that scheming brain of hers. I also think she was the one who shot Charles.
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I SO hope you're right!
 
I wonder if Kay and Larry were consulted about this decision. Maybe that only happens when the prosecutor decides to remove the death penalty and consults with family members beforehand. I would imagine they are not pleased with this decision. I don't blame them at all, if so.

I keep seeing news articles with this new development and in the background is Lori in a previous photo with that smirk on her face. That is probably what she is doing as we speak.
 
mickey2942 said:
A lot of jurors have issues with the DP. I can see that in this case, it was probably best to drop it. Makes me wonder if there is a possible plea deal negotiation going on behind the scenes.
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Could be but I've never seen a decision like this made via a motion to the court. I could be wrong though.
 
Lusitana said:
Can someone remind me if any of Chad's children were classified as "dark"?
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I recall that all five were in lockstep with supporting dad and throwing out the "he was framed" theory in the 48 hours interview.

Emma did most of the talking. (She is second born who was living near by and saw her mother dead/pink foam/was around for the decision to forgo an autopsy/ saw dad walking around and pointing to pictures/ claims dad left the decision to autopsy to "us"- I presume Emma and Garth))

Garth did the second to most talking. He was a witness. Chad has put out multiple stories of Tammy's "passing" which must put Garth in a difficult position. One contradiction was if Tammy had been discovered dead on the floor, having fallen, of dead in her bed. Garth said she was partially on the bed and partially on the floor, perhaps to solve that problem.

Garth's decision to say"both were true"* reminded me of Gibb first implying that she had had JJ, basically allowing for Lori to have been truthful and directing the search back to Rexburg.

*It is possible that Tammy was half off the bed, I guess, but if it was a cover up lie, I really hope Garth has told the whole truth not, and retracted any lies.

Emma and Garth, like others near the defendants, showed little emotion- except for things like frustration about the exhumation and not getting answers about the autopsy. I understand why that would be troubling. But it is not normal to have emotion for that, and no emotion for the death of their mother, the death of children, the affair and deception by their father- especially because they see his allowing her into his life the cause of - ???- framing him as a murderer.

The third child of 5 seemed flat and programmed too, but he didn't speak much. IIRC he was the one who offered the wisdom that just because the coroner said his mother was asphyxiated doesn't mean she was strangled- something like that.

The fourth child Leah was quiet, didn't look as programmed- just disciplined- and she cried appropriately- she seemed most human.

The fifth and youngest was the quietest. He was not in the country during his mothers murder or even her rapidly planned services.

Emma was the most vocal denying a cult. She even said Chad's oldest children would be the first to know. I disagree. I think especially Emma and Garth are so in the cult they could be the last to know. They voiced doomsday books' audio versions. They knew Chad wrote prophecies (in his mind, and his followers), not fiction.

They were in deep. The younger ones may not have been as brainwashed. I am sure they were all light, light, light, as they were depicted by Chad in his books. Because they did what light people apparently will do in the apocalypse. They impassively let people who didn't have enough tents and charcoal die while they saved themselves. As if God will exalt the most selfish assholes among us.

I believe they were light. I believe Garth's situation is harder than Melanie Gibb's. Luckily he is old enough to move away and develop a new network m, but that is hard and involves many losses for simply telling the truth. (If I am right that Garth holds some incriminating truth.) If he perjures himself, he could go to jail. Garth could go dark.

In my opinion, based on old 48 hours information, Emma is not there with seeing the cult she is immersed in. She might not really have knowledge of crimes, which means she couldn't be a meaningful witness.

I feel really bad for the daybell children. Even though they are young adults. They can't help that they were in a family where dad called all the shots, did little of the work, and was considered special, while mom did all the work, was separated from the world and controlled by Chad, and was often criticized.

MOO
 
BeckyF said:
Watching now. He has been very critical of the prosecution all along. I agree.
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Lol, thanks for the warning. I won't log in. I don't think his criticism is proportional to the late disclosures.

The judges decision was fair, I think. The judge explicitly stated that the prosecution was not nefarious of neglectful, just in a hard place. Yet if evidence issues cause harm to the defense, the prosecution's culpability or lack of it in creating the evidence issues are irrelevant.

Even if the issues are nobody's fault, it can cause prejudice to the defendant. Hence a remedy. Boyce took death penalty off the table as a remedy. He explained why he didn't think the other remedies were appropriate.

The point of the remedy is to make certain the defendant's rights are protected. It is not to punish the prosecution. However, some content creators are pounding the prosecutors- as if they are taking the punishment role.

And in the mean time, they are changing the subject from justice to the victims to "The prosecution is not being fair to the defense." How will that play impact a jury?

The am not saying that there is no place for pointing out what appear to be mistakes that interfere with justice and fairness for all. But some creators are not doing this, IMO. They are changing the subject and forgetting what crimes are being adjudicated now. And possibly, these creators are prejudicing the jury to acquittal.

(I wish I could post laughing's pictures here to refocus.)

MOO
 
Ruminations said:
Lol, thanks for the warning. I won't log in. I don't think his criticism is proportional to the late disclosures.

The judges decision was fair, I think. The judge explicitly stated that the prosecution was not nefarious of neglectful, just in a hard place. Yet if evidence issues cause harm to the defense, the prosecution's culpability or lack of it in creating the evidence issues are irrelevant.

Even if the issues are nobody's fault, it can cause prejudice to the defendant. Hence a remedy. Boyce took death penalty off the table as a remedy. He explained why he didn't think the other remedies were appropriate.

The point of the remedy is to make certain the defendant's rights are protected. It is not to punish the prosecution. However, some content creators are pounding the prosecutors- as if they are taking the punishment role.

And in the mean time, they are changing the subject from justice to the victims to "The prosecution is not being fair to the defense." How will that play impact a jury?

The am not saying that there is no place for pointing out what appear to be mistakes that interfere with justice and fairness for all. But some creators are not doing this, IMO. They are changing the subject and forgetting what crimes are being adjudicated now. And possibly, these creators are prejudicing the jury to acquittal.

(I wish I could post laughing's pictures here to refocus.)

MOO
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Agree to disagree. I agree with everything Scott Reisch has said about this case.
 
I knew the prosecution would screw this up. Gut feeling and boy did they!
Even the defense said they’ve worked with the prosecution on many cases before this and never seen this happen. Something stinks. I agree with Scott Reisch on Crime Talk completely.

Kay Woodcock made comment on Crime Talk a few minutes ago that Scott Reisch was right all along about the prosecution! Kept making excuses. Dragged their feet. Didn’t turn over evidence. Yep they reached their goal! Make a deal with Lori and keep the religious aspect out of the spotlight. Protecting beliefs of the church at all cost.
 
BeckyF said:
Agree to disagree. I agree with everything Scott Reisch has said about this case.
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I agree with you; on agreeing to disagree with the original comment you quoted.

The same prosecution who argued over and over about the need for “judicial economy” had ZERO issue racking up bills in the millions for dollars for the taxpayers so far, and spending time and money on fighting things like objecting to removing the death penalty, objecting to severance, etc. Focused on things that clearly affected their ability to hand things over in a timely and the legally obligated manner via Discovery.

And with how they asked for a transcript at today’s hearing; I think some are correct in that they’re gonna fight this decision to remove the death penalty. They’re going to object/appeal/fight/whatever they can even though it may go nowhere. Sure, some would say they should probably focus on preparing for trial upcoming so soon but that’s what they may wanna do instead. “Judicial economy” doesn’t apply to filing frivolous Objections to Motions and fighting the very things that resulted from the actions they chose to take. How many attorneys and paralegals do they have again? Much more than the defense and still this amount of discovery slipped through some cracks?

Wow. JMHO, sorry y’all
 
Ruminations said:
Lol, thanks for the warning. I won't log in. I don't think his criticism is proportional to the late disclosures.

The judges decision was fair, I think. The judge explicitly stated that the prosecution was not nefarious of neglectful, just in a hard place. Yet if evidence issues cause harm to the defense, the prosecution's culpability or lack of it in creating the evidence issues are irrelevant.

Even if the issues are nobody's fault, it can cause prejudice to the defendant. Hence a remedy. Boyce took death penalty off the table as a remedy. He explained why he didn't think the other remedies were appropriate.

The point of the remedy is to make certain the defendant's rights are protected. It is not to punish the prosecution. However, some content creators are pounding the prosecutors- as if they are taking the punishment role.

And in the mean time, they are changing the subject from justice to the victims to "The prosecution is not being fair to the defense." How will that play impact a jury?

The am not saying that there is no place for pointing out what appear to be mistakes that interfere with justice and fairness for all. But some creators are not doing this, IMO. They are changing the subject and forgetting what crimes are being adjudicated now. And possibly, these creators are prejudicing the jury to acquittal.

(I wish I could post laughing's pictures here to refocus.)

MOO
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Who is Laughing and what pictures?
 
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