ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70
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formerlyme
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I would imagine that as more and more information come out and not being subjected to his beliefs on a daily will change their perspective and yes it will hurt a lot to realize what he has done and to them as a family, everything they believed will come into question. JMO
Elliot_Alderson
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Excuse my ignorance of LDS but are portals a big thing in that faith?
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She probably did, at least somewhat. I'm basing that on Heather Daybell's interview with Hidden True Crime.
It also probably murdered her soul before they snuffed out the body, too.
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pizzaman12
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I didn't understand this by Thomas in regards to AC. Seems like the defense would want to solidify that AC WOULD do ANYTHING for Lori. Maybe I'm reading into that wrong but I'm curious what direction he's going to take that.
"4 months of dating and getting to know each other. Thomas says you told the state Alex would do anything for Lori and you knew that. How is it you knew him between Aug-Sept and you know all this stuff. Maybe you didn't know him that well and he wouldn't do anything for Lori"
"4 months of dating and getting to know each other. Thomas says you told the state Alex would do anything for Lori and you knew that. How is it you knew him between Aug-Sept and you know all this stuff. Maybe you didn't know him that well and he wouldn't do anything for Lori"
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I think that is very possible.
There are so many people mad that Melanie and Zulema are testifying instead of sitting at the defense table. (I'm not one of them, for the record, but it is a common and understandable stance.)
Thomas' aim may be to get the jury to believe Lori should be a witness like Melanie and Zulema.
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That also goes to the possibility the defense is trying to make Chad the only manipulator- not their client.
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wnk
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It's because of the conspiracy charges -- assuming that AC physically committed the murders, the defense wants the jury to believe that AC did it because he, too, was duped by Chad's teachings (or for his own self-interests). They don't want to point the finger back toward Lori because then it feels like "Lori made me do it," which means Lori was a conspirator.
Trebor5591
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Well there are some similarities in my opinion, and also a lot of differences. As I recall Manson had followers to do his killing for him, just Like Lori. But I think that's all Manson and Lori Vallow had in Common.
Manson and his followers mostly murdered strangers, although Manson knew some of the victims. I think Manson had people murdered because he was a complete sociopath. He just liked the power of ordering people killed. Lori and Chad were both motivated by money, unlike Manson.
Lori had followers to do her killing for her, just like Manson, but unlike Manson, Lori murdered people known to her, for insurance money, or for social security payments.
I think it possible that Chad Daybell personally murdered his wife, after Alex failed to do so, and he may have been involved in the deaths of Tylee and JJ--at least he helped bury them, good gravedigger that we was. Just my opinion.
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Summary of tweets for Tuesday, April 18th - State witness: Zulema Pastenes on cross-exam.
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
28m
Back at the Ada Co. Courthouse for day 11 of Lori Vallow Daybell’s trial. Zulema Pastenes, is back on the stand. John Thomas will continue cross-examination this morning. Recap of Pastenes’ testimony from Friday here
Waiting in line to enter the courtroom. Zulema Pastenes just walked by with her attorney.
Bailiff reminds everyone in the courtroom to not hold up their phones or they will be checked. Defense attorney Jim Archibald says he observed someone in the courtroom taking photos. The woman is escorted out to have her phone checked.
Lori Daybell is here smiling, chatting with her attorneys. Bailiff gives instructions, tells observers no recordings or taking photos with phones. Personal note: A kind person found me a seat pad that I'm using today - much more comfortable than the wooden bench.
Kay & Larry Woodcock are here w/ other family members. Annie Cushing is also in the courtroom. Attorneys from defense & prosecution have been summoned by a bailiff to leave courtroom. Assuming this is to meet with Judge Boyce. Daybell remains at her table shackled to the ground.
I'm sitting on the far end of a bench by a large window behind Daybell and her team. It's currently raining/snowing in Boise and is around 33 degrees.
Attorneys have returned to the courtroom. Judge Boyce is on the bench. John Prior, Chad Daybell's attorney, is in the courtroom.
Defense & prosecution say they are ready to proceed. Boyce:"We are starting proceedings late this morning because we had a participant who was disruptive. After talking with counsel, I am going to request the bailiff remove this person from the courtroom based on their conduct."
This is the first time Boyce has removed anyone from the courtroom. This is the same person who Archibald says was holding up her phone to take photos before proceedings began.
Zulema Pastenes is back on the stand wearing a white skirt, white jacket and white heels. Jury has been brought into the courtroom.
John Thomas is conducting cross-examination on Zulema. He asks her if she spoke with anyone from the prosecution over the weekend. She says she did not. Thomas begins questioning her about her relationship with Alex Cox.
Zulema says her first day with Alex was in August 2019. They dated a few times until their first kiss on Oct. 31, 2019. They frequently spoke on the phone about scriptures, talks they had read, their families, getting to know each other, Zulema says.
Thomas asks what happened during the week of Oct. 31 and Nov. 7, 2019. Zulema says she was in Arizona and Alex was in Rexburg. Alex proposed to her on Nov. 7 in Rexburg when she says she came to visit him.
"Alex was very clear that he was looking for a relationship and he wanted to get married."
Zulema says the first time they went to dinner, Alex told her he wanted to get married and have a relationship. Zulema says she doesn't remember if she had a reaction to what he was sharing with her. When he proposed on Nov. 7, Zulema says she was not surprised.
"He had told me he was looking for a ring and asked for my ring size. I was not completely surprised that it happened on that day."
Zulema went home to Arizona and didn't physically see Alex again until Thanksgiving. He returned to Arizona on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and stayed with Zulema the entire time.
Thomas asks Zulema about day they got married. "I wish I could tell you I know exactly the date but there has been so much trauma around that date & all of the events that happened around that time that it's very hard for me to remember especially for things I'd like to forget."
Thomas asks Zulema about the traumatic events Zulema witnessed. She starts to cry and said, "I went to work early December 12 and Alex was fine and when I came home Alex was laying on the floor of my bathroom dead.
And then the paramedics came and started working on him and then they took him to the emergency room and they worked on him for about an hour and they brought me back into the room where he was connected to machines.
They were doing CPR on him and then after many efforts to revive him I had to give the ok to have the machines turned off. That is very traumatic, sir."
Thomas to Zulema: "How is it you knew him August to December and you spent very little time with him...Maybe it's possible you didn't know him that well and he wouldn't do anything for Lori?" Zulema: "I disagree with that.
Whenever he wanted to do anything, he had to have Lori or Chad's permission." She relates a blessing Alex received from Chad where Chad told him he would be a warrior. The following day, Alex got a plane with Chad to check Rexburg out. "
After we got married, I told him I would not be moving to Rexburg. My family, my life was in Arizona. He was living in Rexburg so we were discussing what we were going to do and he said, "Well, before I make any decisions I need to ask Chad and Lori what I should do."
Defense hands two exhibits to Zulema. She identifies them as text messages between Chad and her. The other text message is one between Zulema and Lori.
The two exhibits showing text messages were admitted in the grand jury proceedings, according to Thomas.
Zulema reading a text message she sent to Chad Daybell saying she was not ready to move to Rexburg - mainly because of her daughter. Chad responded that he understood and maybe it would happen eventually.
Zulema says during this time, Chad was repeatedly telling her to move to Rexburg. He gave her blessings telling her to move to Rexburg. Lori and Chad "kept pushing" her to move to Rexburg.
"I really trusted these people. Chad said he had a veil and he could see to the other side. He said he was constantly being guided by angels. Lori said she had conversations with Jesus Christ. I trusted them. It was very hard and I was confused."
Zulema says she started to pray for guidance. Zulema says during one prayer, she says she got her answer from God that said, "You will go to Rexburg eventually but not right now."
Thomas says, "Yes or no - did you pray about it?" She says, "Yes." Thomas says, "And yes or no - the Lord told you eventually that you would go to Rexburg?" She says, "Yes." Then adds that Chad and Lori were pushing her to move to Rexburg "in every blessing they gave me."
Zulema reads another text message she sent Chad saying she feels better about things. Thomas asks her to read another text.
"I have a couple of questions for you. Do I have a calling and election made sure? Will I have a calling and election made sure? Do I have a second comforter? And...how I will know when and how to the temple when the callout happens?" This was sent Jan. 24, 2019.
Zulema reads another text message about her having a yearning to only go to the temple and "leave the world behind." Meanwhile, a person's cell phone in the gallery has gone off and the bailiff has taken it away.
Zulema reads a message Chad sent her saying her calling and election was made sure. He tells her she will be among the most righteous and in the first group of "gatherers." Zulema responds to Chad saying the Lord has spoken to her directly and told her that he has "made you mine"
Thomas asks Zulema about an incident in Dec. 2018 when she texted Chad for a blessing. She reads the message that says, "I think I am being attacked again."
Zulema says Lori and Chad always taught that when you have any kind of physical pain or any emotional suffering, it was an attack from the dark side and evil spirits coming after your body and emotions. Zulema says she believed that.
Zulema says she felt the adversary was attacking her back. Chad responded, "Hi Zulema. I have captured and removed the evil spirits that were attacking you. I have removed the weapons and am healing the damage."
Thomas asks, "Do you think that actually worked or was this hocus pocus?" Zulema responds that Chad often did energy work and there were times she actually felt better afterward. She doesn't recall if she felt better after this specific incident.
Thomas asks Zulema to read a message she sent to Chad after he said the evil was removed. She told him she felt better and could move her shoulder again.
Zulema says she felt she was doing honorable, good work at the time but now realizes the intentions of Chad and Lori were "very evil." "Those things they were saying were evil and manipulative."
Zulema reads another text message about "light fire." Thomas asks what that means. She says it's "like imagining in your mind a light oura & fire to put around somebody's wound to help them heal." She recalls using light fire for good, during the castings & for healing purposes.
Thomas asks Zulema if she has a portal in her home. She says no. He asks if she has ever had a portal in her home. She says, "No, sir." Thomas asks Zulema to read another text she sent to Chad on April 8, 2019.
Part of it says, "I would love that. I want to see if you help me create a portal at home to get answers." Zulema says she doesn't recall this conversation.
Thomas asks about casting the demon Garrett out of Charles. While the ceremony took place, Zulema says she is unsure if the evil spirit ever left Charles because Lori always had to check with Chad to see if the spirit had actually left. "We would get confirmation from Chad."
"I had faith they were telling us the truth," Zulema says when asked if the castings were successful. "I personally did not have confirmation whether those evil spirits or demons were cast out. I trusted and believed what Lori and Chad were saying."
Zulema says she was in the temple the day Charles died. She reads a text message saying she was working on Hiplos (the evil spirit that inhabited Charles) while in the temple and was told he will be taken the way he is. "7/11. I hope today is a good day for all of this to end."
Zulema says Lori was supposed to be at the temple with Lori "working on Hiplos" that day but Lori didn't show up.
The jurors are very attentive today and many are taking notes. One juror, a man, seems to be noting everything being said. Lori is also taking notes directly across from the juror box.
Thomas asks Zulema about a powerful spiritual experience she had in the temple where she saw Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother, Jesus and her eternal father. Zulema says she doesn't recall that day.
Thomas says, "You saw Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother and Jesus and you don't remember what happened?" Zulema thinks for a good 60 seconds and starts to talk before Thomas says, "I'll withdraw the question, your honor. No further questions."
Thomas done questioning, Rachel Smith with the prosecution now following up.
Smith asks Zulema to clarify text messages and communication between Lori and Zulema. Lori often called Zulema a goddess and praise her ability to control the elements.
"She said that I was very special and my mission was the most important one. They were always looking out for me because my mission was the most important one."
Chad called Zulema "the goddess of the earth" and said she had a special mission to fulfill that he identified just for her.
Chad and Lori repeatedly told Zulema how special she was and how special her powers were. "It made me feel very good and really special. I started to really believe it."
Zulema says Chad and Lori made others feel special and powerful, including Alex. "They told Alex he was the angel who had come to Saul before he became Paul and he was the one who spoke to him and made him blind so he would mend his ways and become a follower of Jesus Christ.
They also told him he had been an angel before and he was an angel that had appeared to Joseph Smith. They told him he had been exalted in other creations with his wife Holly and he had been a very powerful warrior.
He had unmasked Satan in another creation and that is the reason why Satan had so much animosity toward him."
Zulema says Alex quit his job and moved to Rexburg after Chad and Lori told him to do so. He left behind his belongings in Arizona. "Chad and Lori told him the only reason he came to earth at this time - his sole purpose was to protect Lori."
Zulema has repeatedly said that Alex believed everything Chad and Lori told him. Smith has no further questions for Zulema and she steps down from the stand.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
28m
Back at the Ada Co. Courthouse for day 11 of Lori Vallow Daybell’s trial. Zulema Pastenes, is back on the stand. John Thomas will continue cross-examination this morning. Recap of Pastenes’ testimony from Friday here
Waiting in line to enter the courtroom. Zulema Pastenes just walked by with her attorney.
Bailiff reminds everyone in the courtroom to not hold up their phones or they will be checked. Defense attorney Jim Archibald says he observed someone in the courtroom taking photos. The woman is escorted out to have her phone checked.
Lori Daybell is here smiling, chatting with her attorneys. Bailiff gives instructions, tells observers no recordings or taking photos with phones. Personal note: A kind person found me a seat pad that I'm using today - much more comfortable than the wooden bench.
Kay & Larry Woodcock are here w/ other family members. Annie Cushing is also in the courtroom. Attorneys from defense & prosecution have been summoned by a bailiff to leave courtroom. Assuming this is to meet with Judge Boyce. Daybell remains at her table shackled to the ground.
I'm sitting on the far end of a bench by a large window behind Daybell and her team. It's currently raining/snowing in Boise and is around 33 degrees.
Attorneys have returned to the courtroom. Judge Boyce is on the bench. John Prior, Chad Daybell's attorney, is in the courtroom.
Defense & prosecution say they are ready to proceed. Boyce:"We are starting proceedings late this morning because we had a participant who was disruptive. After talking with counsel, I am going to request the bailiff remove this person from the courtroom based on their conduct."
This is the first time Boyce has removed anyone from the courtroom. This is the same person who Archibald says was holding up her phone to take photos before proceedings began.
Zulema Pastenes is back on the stand wearing a white skirt, white jacket and white heels. Jury has been brought into the courtroom.
John Thomas is conducting cross-examination on Zulema. He asks her if she spoke with anyone from the prosecution over the weekend. She says she did not. Thomas begins questioning her about her relationship with Alex Cox.
Zulema says her first day with Alex was in August 2019. They dated a few times until their first kiss on Oct. 31, 2019. They frequently spoke on the phone about scriptures, talks they had read, their families, getting to know each other, Zulema says.
Thomas asks what happened during the week of Oct. 31 and Nov. 7, 2019. Zulema says she was in Arizona and Alex was in Rexburg. Alex proposed to her on Nov. 7 in Rexburg when she says she came to visit him.
"Alex was very clear that he was looking for a relationship and he wanted to get married."
Zulema says the first time they went to dinner, Alex told her he wanted to get married and have a relationship. Zulema says she doesn't remember if she had a reaction to what he was sharing with her. When he proposed on Nov. 7, Zulema says she was not surprised.
"He had told me he was looking for a ring and asked for my ring size. I was not completely surprised that it happened on that day."
Zulema went home to Arizona and didn't physically see Alex again until Thanksgiving. He returned to Arizona on the Wednesday before Thanksgiving and stayed with Zulema the entire time.
Thomas asks Zulema about day they got married. "I wish I could tell you I know exactly the date but there has been so much trauma around that date & all of the events that happened around that time that it's very hard for me to remember especially for things I'd like to forget."
Thomas asks Zulema about the traumatic events Zulema witnessed. She starts to cry and said, "I went to work early December 12 and Alex was fine and when I came home Alex was laying on the floor of my bathroom dead.
And then the paramedics came and started working on him and then they took him to the emergency room and they worked on him for about an hour and they brought me back into the room where he was connected to machines.
They were doing CPR on him and then after many efforts to revive him I had to give the ok to have the machines turned off. That is very traumatic, sir."
Thomas to Zulema: "How is it you knew him August to December and you spent very little time with him...Maybe it's possible you didn't know him that well and he wouldn't do anything for Lori?" Zulema: "I disagree with that.
Whenever he wanted to do anything, he had to have Lori or Chad's permission." She relates a blessing Alex received from Chad where Chad told him he would be a warrior. The following day, Alex got a plane with Chad to check Rexburg out. "
After we got married, I told him I would not be moving to Rexburg. My family, my life was in Arizona. He was living in Rexburg so we were discussing what we were going to do and he said, "Well, before I make any decisions I need to ask Chad and Lori what I should do."
Defense hands two exhibits to Zulema. She identifies them as text messages between Chad and her. The other text message is one between Zulema and Lori.
The two exhibits showing text messages were admitted in the grand jury proceedings, according to Thomas.
Zulema reading a text message she sent to Chad Daybell saying she was not ready to move to Rexburg - mainly because of her daughter. Chad responded that he understood and maybe it would happen eventually.
Zulema says during this time, Chad was repeatedly telling her to move to Rexburg. He gave her blessings telling her to move to Rexburg. Lori and Chad "kept pushing" her to move to Rexburg.
"I really trusted these people. Chad said he had a veil and he could see to the other side. He said he was constantly being guided by angels. Lori said she had conversations with Jesus Christ. I trusted them. It was very hard and I was confused."
Zulema says she started to pray for guidance. Zulema says during one prayer, she says she got her answer from God that said, "You will go to Rexburg eventually but not right now."
Thomas says, "Yes or no - did you pray about it?" She says, "Yes." Thomas says, "And yes or no - the Lord told you eventually that you would go to Rexburg?" She says, "Yes." Then adds that Chad and Lori were pushing her to move to Rexburg "in every blessing they gave me."
Zulema reads another text message she sent Chad saying she feels better about things. Thomas asks her to read another text.
"I have a couple of questions for you. Do I have a calling and election made sure? Will I have a calling and election made sure? Do I have a second comforter? And...how I will know when and how to the temple when the callout happens?" This was sent Jan. 24, 2019.
Zulema reads another text message about her having a yearning to only go to the temple and "leave the world behind." Meanwhile, a person's cell phone in the gallery has gone off and the bailiff has taken it away.
Zulema reads a message Chad sent her saying her calling and election was made sure. He tells her she will be among the most righteous and in the first group of "gatherers." Zulema responds to Chad saying the Lord has spoken to her directly and told her that he has "made you mine"
Thomas asks Zulema about an incident in Dec. 2018 when she texted Chad for a blessing. She reads the message that says, "I think I am being attacked again."
Zulema says Lori and Chad always taught that when you have any kind of physical pain or any emotional suffering, it was an attack from the dark side and evil spirits coming after your body and emotions. Zulema says she believed that.
Zulema says she felt the adversary was attacking her back. Chad responded, "Hi Zulema. I have captured and removed the evil spirits that were attacking you. I have removed the weapons and am healing the damage."
Thomas asks, "Do you think that actually worked or was this hocus pocus?" Zulema responds that Chad often did energy work and there were times she actually felt better afterward. She doesn't recall if she felt better after this specific incident.
Thomas asks Zulema to read a message she sent to Chad after he said the evil was removed. She told him she felt better and could move her shoulder again.
Zulema says she felt she was doing honorable, good work at the time but now realizes the intentions of Chad and Lori were "very evil." "Those things they were saying were evil and manipulative."
Zulema reads another text message about "light fire." Thomas asks what that means. She says it's "like imagining in your mind a light oura & fire to put around somebody's wound to help them heal." She recalls using light fire for good, during the castings & for healing purposes.
Thomas asks Zulema if she has a portal in her home. She says no. He asks if she has ever had a portal in her home. She says, "No, sir." Thomas asks Zulema to read another text she sent to Chad on April 8, 2019.
Part of it says, "I would love that. I want to see if you help me create a portal at home to get answers." Zulema says she doesn't recall this conversation.
Thomas asks about casting the demon Garrett out of Charles. While the ceremony took place, Zulema says she is unsure if the evil spirit ever left Charles because Lori always had to check with Chad to see if the spirit had actually left. "We would get confirmation from Chad."
"I had faith they were telling us the truth," Zulema says when asked if the castings were successful. "I personally did not have confirmation whether those evil spirits or demons were cast out. I trusted and believed what Lori and Chad were saying."
Zulema says she was in the temple the day Charles died. She reads a text message saying she was working on Hiplos (the evil spirit that inhabited Charles) while in the temple and was told he will be taken the way he is. "7/11. I hope today is a good day for all of this to end."
Zulema says Lori was supposed to be at the temple with Lori "working on Hiplos" that day but Lori didn't show up.
The jurors are very attentive today and many are taking notes. One juror, a man, seems to be noting everything being said. Lori is also taking notes directly across from the juror box.
Thomas asks Zulema about a powerful spiritual experience she had in the temple where she saw Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother, Jesus and her eternal father. Zulema says she doesn't recall that day.
Thomas says, "You saw Heavenly Father, Heavenly Mother and Jesus and you don't remember what happened?" Zulema thinks for a good 60 seconds and starts to talk before Thomas says, "I'll withdraw the question, your honor. No further questions."
Thomas done questioning, Rachel Smith with the prosecution now following up.
Smith asks Zulema to clarify text messages and communication between Lori and Zulema. Lori often called Zulema a goddess and praise her ability to control the elements.
"She said that I was very special and my mission was the most important one. They were always looking out for me because my mission was the most important one."
Chad called Zulema "the goddess of the earth" and said she had a special mission to fulfill that he identified just for her.
Chad and Lori repeatedly told Zulema how special she was and how special her powers were. "It made me feel very good and really special. I started to really believe it."
Zulema says Chad and Lori made others feel special and powerful, including Alex. "They told Alex he was the angel who had come to Saul before he became Paul and he was the one who spoke to him and made him blind so he would mend his ways and become a follower of Jesus Christ.
They also told him he had been an angel before and he was an angel that had appeared to Joseph Smith. They told him he had been exalted in other creations with his wife Holly and he had been a very powerful warrior.
He had unmasked Satan in another creation and that is the reason why Satan had so much animosity toward him."
Zulema says Alex quit his job and moved to Rexburg after Chad and Lori told him to do so. He left behind his belongings in Arizona. "Chad and Lori told him the only reason he came to earth at this time - his sole purpose was to protect Lori."
Zulema has repeatedly said that Alex believed everything Chad and Lori told him. Smith has no further questions for Zulema and she steps down from the stand.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
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