ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow - Tylee Ryan - Tammy Daybell - Charles Vallow - *Arrests* #70
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Day 12: In death of Lori Daybell’s 4th husband, 911 call came at least 40 minutes after shooting
Day 12: In death of Lori Daybell’s 4th husband, 911 call came at least 40 minutes after shooting
Records show Chad Daybell emailed a real estate agent in November 2019 about property in Hawaii, and said he and Lori had “no pets and no kids,” according to testimony.
fred&edna
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What's this about bags??? Can we talk about 'em?
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Hoosgirl
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Tylee Ryan
mickey2942
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Probably the ones who believe in him, and everything he says. Sadly.
fred&edna
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Don't they all? Or only a few? I never watched the interview with them.
I think the answer to that is in the title of this thread, doomsday was right around the corner. They met at a Preparing a People conference (preparing for the end of the world) That's what Chad.wrote his books about, the coming apocalypse. Odd that it's been mostly excluded from testimony.
JMO
Just to clarify, that "as soon as" would not be asserting that they necessarily began plotting the day they met.
Instead, the indictment states a span of time, "on or about October 1, 2018 — January 15, 2020" (those dates are the day they met and then when they were in Hawaii without kids), within which, they must have conspired to kill Tammy. (For some reason, they give a different date range for the kids that starts from Oct 26, 2018 each time, it seems.)
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Summary of tweets for Wednesday, April 19th - State witness: Scott Cowden, Firefighter with the Chandler, Arizona Fire Dept.
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
9h
We are being told it will be at least 30 minutes before court is back in session. On another note, firefighters and EMTs were called to the courthouse after a man in another courtroom was having a heart attack.
Prosecution calls Scott Cowden to the stand.
Cowden is a firefighter with the Chandler, Arizona Fire Department. He is a fire engineer and paramedic.
Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake is questioning Cowden. Archibald objects to having the witness questioned - says his client is not on trial in Idaho for anything that happened in Arizona.
Cowden responded to the Chandler house the day Charles Vallow was shot. July 11, 2019. He says he and other firefighters entered the house and found Charles lying on the floor on his back unconscious.
Cowden assessed and evaluated Charles' body. He found blood on Charles' shirt and observed two gunshot wounds. Cowden pulled up Charles' shirt and began CPR.
"We were led to believe CPR had started prior to our arrival communicating with dispatch. We were led to believe the caller, the shooter, had started CPR." Cowden says if CPR had been performed, there likely would have been injuries or an impression on Charles' chest.
Cowden did not see this. He started his impressions and he felt a "crunch" or "crack" - likely cracking of a rib or sternum. If someone had been performing CPR, Cowden would not have expected to feel that "crunch."
Once Cowden stopped CPR, he had blood on his gloves. He says had someone performed CPR before him, there would have been blood on their hands. Blake has no further questions. Archibald has no further questions as he already objected to the entirety of the testimony.
Cowden is dismissed.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
9h
We are being told it will be at least 30 minutes before court is back in session. On another note, firefighters and EMTs were called to the courthouse after a man in another courtroom was having a heart attack.
Prosecution calls Scott Cowden to the stand.
Cowden is a firefighter with the Chandler, Arizona Fire Department. He is a fire engineer and paramedic.
Fremont County Prosecuting Attorney Lindsey Blake is questioning Cowden. Archibald objects to having the witness questioned - says his client is not on trial in Idaho for anything that happened in Arizona.
Cowden responded to the Chandler house the day Charles Vallow was shot. July 11, 2019. He says he and other firefighters entered the house and found Charles lying on the floor on his back unconscious.
Cowden assessed and evaluated Charles' body. He found blood on Charles' shirt and observed two gunshot wounds. Cowden pulled up Charles' shirt and began CPR.
"We were led to believe CPR had started prior to our arrival communicating with dispatch. We were led to believe the caller, the shooter, had started CPR." Cowden says if CPR had been performed, there likely would have been injuries or an impression on Charles' chest.
Cowden did not see this. He started his impressions and he felt a "crunch" or "crack" - likely cracking of a rib or sternum. If someone had been performing CPR, Cowden would not have expected to feel that "crunch."
Once Cowden stopped CPR, he had blood on his gloves. He says had someone performed CPR before him, there would have been blood on their hands. Blake has no further questions. Archibald has no further questions as he already objected to the entirety of the testimony.
Cowden is dismissed.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
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Summary of tweets for Wednesday, April 19th - State witness: Detective Airel Werther with the Chandler Police Dept.
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
9h
Detective Ariel Werther is called to the stand. He worked for the Chandler Police Department and is assigned to the robbery/homicide unit. He's been a detective since 2016. He has been with his unit since 2020.
Blake asks to admit a 7-page Powerpoint presentation to review with Werther on the stand.
Judge asks for a sidebar with attorneys. White noise is played then Boyce leaves the courtroom.
Boyce is back on the bench. Blake asks to show the witness the exhibit. Archibald says he objects as Lori isn't being tried in Idaho for anything that happened in Arizona. Boyce overrules the objection. Werther says he created the Powerpoint and Boyce allows the presentation in.
Werther was working on July 11 when police received a call for a shooting. He was actually on the sex assault unit at the time but responded to the scene. The next day, he spoke with Det. Moffitt and Werther was assigned to call Lori Vallow
as nobody had obtained information about JJ because he was present at the scene during the initial investigation.
Werther called Lori. She told him she took JJ to school after the shooting and they stopped at Burger King on the way. Werther obtained surveillance video from Burger King. Lori's vehicle at the drive-thru clocked at 7:54 a.m.
A map is shown on the screen. Werther points out the locations where Lori stopped the morning of the shooting - Walgreens (which he says Lori never mentioned and police learned about later), Burger King and JJ's school.
JJ attended school at Lauren's Academy. Werther says he evaluated the most direct route from the house to the school. It is about 7-8 miles. The 911 call came in at 8:36 a.m.
The first officer was on scene at 8:42 a.m. He captured Lori on camera at 8:48 a.m. back at the scene. Werther says it doesn't seem plausible that she could have driven back and forth to school with the stops in that short amount of time.
Werther says a few days later, he visited several CVS stores as they received information that Lori went to buy flip-flops for JJ who had left the house without shoes. He was unable to find any video of Lori at any CVS.
Werther analyzed location data on Charles Vallow's phone, which Lori apparently took with her after Charles was shot. The data shows Lori stopped at Walgreens, not CVS, and recorded her visit to Burger King.
Lori visited Walgreens around 8:15 a.m. on the morning of the shooting. Charles Vallow's phone was in the area of Lauren's Life Academy around 8:30 a.m. Remember - the 911 call came in at 8:36 a.m. Lori appears back at the scene of the shooting at 8:48 a.m.
When police arrived at Charles Vallow's house, they never saw his phone and it was never recovered on his body. Blake has no further questions.
Archibald will cross-examine Werther. He asks the detective who made the 911. Werther responds that Alex Cox made the call. Werther says he never spoke with Alex but other officers did.
Archibald asks who else was in the car with Lori at Burger King. Werther says he is not sure but there was someone in the passenger seat, according to the surveillance video.
Werther says he understood two people were with Lori - presumably JJ and Tylee. Archibald has no further questions for Werther.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
9h
Detective Ariel Werther is called to the stand. He worked for the Chandler Police Department and is assigned to the robbery/homicide unit. He's been a detective since 2016. He has been with his unit since 2020.
Blake asks to admit a 7-page Powerpoint presentation to review with Werther on the stand.
Judge asks for a sidebar with attorneys. White noise is played then Boyce leaves the courtroom.
Boyce is back on the bench. Blake asks to show the witness the exhibit. Archibald says he objects as Lori isn't being tried in Idaho for anything that happened in Arizona. Boyce overrules the objection. Werther says he created the Powerpoint and Boyce allows the presentation in.
Werther was working on July 11 when police received a call for a shooting. He was actually on the sex assault unit at the time but responded to the scene. The next day, he spoke with Det. Moffitt and Werther was assigned to call Lori Vallow
as nobody had obtained information about JJ because he was present at the scene during the initial investigation.
Werther called Lori. She told him she took JJ to school after the shooting and they stopped at Burger King on the way. Werther obtained surveillance video from Burger King. Lori's vehicle at the drive-thru clocked at 7:54 a.m.
A map is shown on the screen. Werther points out the locations where Lori stopped the morning of the shooting - Walgreens (which he says Lori never mentioned and police learned about later), Burger King and JJ's school.
JJ attended school at Lauren's Academy. Werther says he evaluated the most direct route from the house to the school. It is about 7-8 miles. The 911 call came in at 8:36 a.m.
The first officer was on scene at 8:42 a.m. He captured Lori on camera at 8:48 a.m. back at the scene. Werther says it doesn't seem plausible that she could have driven back and forth to school with the stops in that short amount of time.
Werther says a few days later, he visited several CVS stores as they received information that Lori went to buy flip-flops for JJ who had left the house without shoes. He was unable to find any video of Lori at any CVS.
Werther analyzed location data on Charles Vallow's phone, which Lori apparently took with her after Charles was shot. The data shows Lori stopped at Walgreens, not CVS, and recorded her visit to Burger King.
Lori visited Walgreens around 8:15 a.m. on the morning of the shooting. Charles Vallow's phone was in the area of Lauren's Life Academy around 8:30 a.m. Remember - the 911 call came in at 8:36 a.m. Lori appears back at the scene of the shooting at 8:48 a.m.
When police arrived at Charles Vallow's house, they never saw his phone and it was never recovered on his body. Blake has no further questions.
Archibald will cross-examine Werther. He asks the detective who made the 911. Werther responds that Alex Cox made the call. Werther says he never spoke with Alex but other officers did.
Archibald asks who else was in the car with Lori at Burger King. Werther says he is not sure but there was someone in the passenger seat, according to the surveillance video.
Werther says he understood two people were with Lori - presumably JJ and Tylee. Archibald has no further questions for Werther.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
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Summary of tweets for Wednesday, April 19th - State witness: Detective Sandra Ynclan with the Chandler Police Dept.
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
8h
Next witness is Det. Sandra Ynclan with the Chandler Police Department. She has been working for the department for 22 years and is a detective in the robbery/homicide unit. She's been in the unit since 2009.
Archibald objects to the detective's testimony as he says this case is not an Arizona case. Boyce overrules the objection. Ynclan was working the morning Charles Vallow was shot. She arrived at the home after patrol officers had established a secure area.
Additional investigators were called and given assignments.
Ynclan recalls going over to chat with Lori and Tylee at the scene. She moved them to the care/crisis response unit van that is run by the fire department. Ynclan learned Lori was the wife of the victim and sister of the shooter.
Ynclan was with Lori when a sergeant informed Lori that Charles was dead. "She didn't have much of a reaction. When she was informed that Charles was deceased, she responded that she already knew and made statements that she was present when it happened.
This was new information to detectives."
When Ynclan first observed Lori and Tylee, they were standing near Charles' rental car. "She appeared calm, very non-emotional, was kind of hanging out and having general conversations. She was not really upset and at one point she was laughing."
Ynclan was assigned to do follow-up, extensive interviews with Lori Vallow and Tylee Ryan. The interviews were not done on scene but Ynclan drove Lori and Tylee back to the police station in the family advocacy center.
Ynclan says they try not to talk on the way to the police station to preserve the information for interviews but on the car ride, Ynclan says Lori was calm and not upset. Lori spoke with Tylee about school and her future plans. "She was almost nonchalant about the conversation."
Many of the jurors are taking notes during the detective's testimony. Lori is also taking notes.
Lori told Ynclan that Charles had been renting the home and they were separated. She told Ynclan Charles had been living in Houston and Lori went out there but she returned to Arizona.
At one point in the interview, she said Charles took JJ back to Houston with him and she allowed that to happen.
Lori told Ynclan about JJ's special needs care, his services plan and everything involved to take care of him. She said Charles didn't have those services or support for JJ in Houston.
Ynclan says that Lori told her Charles arrived at the house a few minutes late and she had JJ ready for school with his backpack. She described JJ as being "reluctant" to go with Charles but they got JJ settled to leave for school.
Lori said that Charles left his phone in the house with JJ outside and Charles came back inside to retrieve his phone.
Lori told Ynclan she had asked her brother Alex to spend the night at the house because Charles was coming. Lori said when Charles came back in the house, Lori was holding the phone.
She indicated that Charles became very upset that she had his phone and she made "statements to him about messages on the phone." She says he became very angry and was moving around the kitchen to keep the phone while an argument started. Lori refused to give Charles the phone.
Tylee came out of her room with a bat and Lori said Tylee was "prodding" at Charles in defense of Lori. Charles ended up taking the bat from Tylee. Lori said Charles was "extremely angry" and Alex then interceded behind Charles. Alex grabbed Charles and pulled him backward.
A physical altercation ensued, according to Lori.
Lori told Tylee to go outside with JJ. Lori moved into the kitchen where she said she could hear what was going on but could not see when Alex fired one gunshot. She then went back into the room and saw Charles on the floor.
Lori said she then went outside where JJ was coming back toward the house. Lori put JJ in the car and they left with Tylee to take JJ to school.
Charles' phone was eventually recovered from Lori and Alex in Charles' rental car. Lori told Ynclan they left the house, went to get chicken fries and Sprite at Burger King for JJ, took him to school and then returned to the house.
Lori told Yncan that after she left the house, Alex called her. She told Alex she was taking JJ to school and Alex needed to call 911. There is no indication that Lori ever called 911.
Once Yncan was done interviewing Lori, the detective conducted an interview with Tylee. Det. Moffitt was interviewing Alex at the same time. When all their interviews were done, the detectives took the group back to the house.
Lori was very calm during the entirety of the car ride. "She was very nonchalant about what had happened, not upset, and there was some chatter about Tylee, school and mundane conversation." Blake has no further questions for Yncan.
Archibald will cross-examine Yncan. He asks if the interviews with Lori and Tylee were recorded. She says they were. Archibald asks if she watched the tapes to help her remember the interviews. Yncan says partially, yes.
Archibald asks if Alex Cox was ever arrested. Before Yncan can answer, Blake asks if attorneys can approach and meet with Boyce. We are now in a sidebar conference as white noise plays overhead.
We are back from sidebar. Archibald asks Yncan if she arrested Alex Cox on July 11, 2019. She says she did not. Archibald asks Yncan if the argument reported between Charles and Tylee and Lori and Alex was consistent among all the interviews. Yncan says it is consistent.
Archibald asks Yncan if there is a correct or incorrect way to act "when your estranged husband is shot." She responds that she doesn't know if there is a correct way to react to any death but it left an impression on Yncan about how unemotional Lori was.
Archibald has no more questions.
Blake has further questions for the detective. She asks Yncan if she is aware of whether Alex Cox is alive. Yncan says she is aware Alex Cox is deceased. Blake says, "If Alex Cox was still alive, do you believe your agency would have made a recommendation that charges be filed?"
Archibald objects to the question. Boyce grants the objection.
Blake asks Yncan if arrests are normally made on the day an investigation begins. Yncan responds, "Generally, no. It depends on the totality of the investigation" and other factors. Blake asks to approach the judge with defense attorneys.
Blake says she has no further questions for Yncan. The detective is excused. Boyce calls for an afternoon break.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
8h
Next witness is Det. Sandra Ynclan with the Chandler Police Department. She has been working for the department for 22 years and is a detective in the robbery/homicide unit. She's been in the unit since 2009.
Archibald objects to the detective's testimony as he says this case is not an Arizona case. Boyce overrules the objection. Ynclan was working the morning Charles Vallow was shot. She arrived at the home after patrol officers had established a secure area.
Additional investigators were called and given assignments.
Ynclan recalls going over to chat with Lori and Tylee at the scene. She moved them to the care/crisis response unit van that is run by the fire department. Ynclan learned Lori was the wife of the victim and sister of the shooter.
Ynclan was with Lori when a sergeant informed Lori that Charles was dead. "She didn't have much of a reaction. When she was informed that Charles was deceased, she responded that she already knew and made statements that she was present when it happened.
This was new information to detectives."
When Ynclan first observed Lori and Tylee, they were standing near Charles' rental car. "She appeared calm, very non-emotional, was kind of hanging out and having general conversations. She was not really upset and at one point she was laughing."
Ynclan was assigned to do follow-up, extensive interviews with Lori Vallow and Tylee Ryan. The interviews were not done on scene but Ynclan drove Lori and Tylee back to the police station in the family advocacy center.
Ynclan says they try not to talk on the way to the police station to preserve the information for interviews but on the car ride, Ynclan says Lori was calm and not upset. Lori spoke with Tylee about school and her future plans. "She was almost nonchalant about the conversation."
Many of the jurors are taking notes during the detective's testimony. Lori is also taking notes.
Lori told Ynclan that Charles had been renting the home and they were separated. She told Ynclan Charles had been living in Houston and Lori went out there but she returned to Arizona.
At one point in the interview, she said Charles took JJ back to Houston with him and she allowed that to happen.
Lori told Ynclan about JJ's special needs care, his services plan and everything involved to take care of him. She said Charles didn't have those services or support for JJ in Houston.
Ynclan says that Lori told her Charles arrived at the house a few minutes late and she had JJ ready for school with his backpack. She described JJ as being "reluctant" to go with Charles but they got JJ settled to leave for school.
Lori said that Charles left his phone in the house with JJ outside and Charles came back inside to retrieve his phone.
Lori told Ynclan she had asked her brother Alex to spend the night at the house because Charles was coming. Lori said when Charles came back in the house, Lori was holding the phone.
She indicated that Charles became very upset that she had his phone and she made "statements to him about messages on the phone." She says he became very angry and was moving around the kitchen to keep the phone while an argument started. Lori refused to give Charles the phone.
Tylee came out of her room with a bat and Lori said Tylee was "prodding" at Charles in defense of Lori. Charles ended up taking the bat from Tylee. Lori said Charles was "extremely angry" and Alex then interceded behind Charles. Alex grabbed Charles and pulled him backward.
A physical altercation ensued, according to Lori.
Lori told Tylee to go outside with JJ. Lori moved into the kitchen where she said she could hear what was going on but could not see when Alex fired one gunshot. She then went back into the room and saw Charles on the floor.
Lori said she then went outside where JJ was coming back toward the house. Lori put JJ in the car and they left with Tylee to take JJ to school.
Charles' phone was eventually recovered from Lori and Alex in Charles' rental car. Lori told Ynclan they left the house, went to get chicken fries and Sprite at Burger King for JJ, took him to school and then returned to the house.
Lori told Yncan that after she left the house, Alex called her. She told Alex she was taking JJ to school and Alex needed to call 911. There is no indication that Lori ever called 911.
Once Yncan was done interviewing Lori, the detective conducted an interview with Tylee. Det. Moffitt was interviewing Alex at the same time. When all their interviews were done, the detectives took the group back to the house.
Lori was very calm during the entirety of the car ride. "She was very nonchalant about what had happened, not upset, and there was some chatter about Tylee, school and mundane conversation." Blake has no further questions for Yncan.
Archibald will cross-examine Yncan. He asks if the interviews with Lori and Tylee were recorded. She says they were. Archibald asks if she watched the tapes to help her remember the interviews. Yncan says partially, yes.
Archibald asks if Alex Cox was ever arrested. Before Yncan can answer, Blake asks if attorneys can approach and meet with Boyce. We are now in a sidebar conference as white noise plays overhead.
We are back from sidebar. Archibald asks Yncan if she arrested Alex Cox on July 11, 2019. She says she did not. Archibald asks Yncan if the argument reported between Charles and Tylee and Lori and Alex was consistent among all the interviews. Yncan says it is consistent.
Archibald asks Yncan if there is a correct or incorrect way to act "when your estranged husband is shot." She responds that she doesn't know if there is a correct way to react to any death but it left an impression on Yncan about how unemotional Lori was.
Archibald has no more questions.
Blake has further questions for the detective. She asks Yncan if she is aware of whether Alex Cox is alive. Yncan says she is aware Alex Cox is deceased. Blake says, "If Alex Cox was still alive, do you believe your agency would have made a recommendation that charges be filed?"
Archibald objects to the question. Boyce grants the objection.
Blake asks Yncan if arrests are normally made on the day an investigation begins. Yncan responds, "Generally, no. It depends on the totality of the investigation" and other factors. Blake asks to approach the judge with defense attorneys.
Blake says she has no further questions for Yncan. The detective is excused. Boyce calls for an afternoon break.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
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Summary of tweets for Wednesday, April 19th - State witness: April Raymond, friend of Lori's in Hawaii.
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
8h
We are back from the break. John Prior is sitting in front of me and just leaned over the court sketch artist. He jokingly asked that when she sketches him she make him 30 lbs. lighter and younger.
Next witness called to the stand is April Raymond. She was very good friends with Lori Daybell in Hawaii.
An issue is being discussed outside of the presence of the jury because Raymond received a Facebook message showing an interview @jlumfox10 did with Lori Daybell's cousin.
Raymond says she watched about two minutes of the interview but turned it off. She says the story had nothing to do with the case or interviews. Raymond says she read some of the comments on the story.
Witnesses were told not to watch any stories or read anything about the trial. Archibald asks Raymond about the comments she read on the story. She says in general it was about the LDS Church's influence on the trial.
Archibald asks Raymond if she has been contacted by reporters about doing interviews. She says she has given them the directive from the prosector's office that she can not participate in any interviews at this time without the promise of any future interviews.
Boyce says there is no evidence that Raymond violated the exclusionary rules and she will be able to remain on the stand. Jurors are brought in. Lori has been looking at her former friend but I have not seen Raymond looks at Lori once.
Raymond lives in Hawaii and has two children. She says they met at church in Hawaii in 2016. They were introduced at church. Lori was the primary president and she asked Raymond to be one of her counselors.
They were friends outside of church, celebrated holidays together and their kids played together.
Raymond says she knew Charles Vallow. He worked from home a lot. Raymond would visit Lori at their home and Charles was a constant presence. Lori and Raymond got together a few times a week.
They would go on walks, Lori would color Raymond's hair, they would shop and planned activities for the kids at church.
Lori and Charles eventually moved from Hawaii but in Feb. 2019, the weekend before Valentine's Day, Raymond unexpectedly received a call from Lori. Lori said she was in Hawaii with Tylee and that Lori was leaving Charles.
Lori reached out again saying they needed a place to stay. Lori and Tylee went to stay with Raymond.
Lori told Raymond that Charles had an affair, he was no longer Charles and that he had turned into a demon named Ned Schneider. Lori said they were getting a divorce. Tylee was with Lori but JJ was with Charles.
Lori told Raymond she didn't bring JJ because "she was done with him" and Charles and Kay would need to figure it out.
Raymond took "done with JJ" to mean that because Lori and Charles were getting a divorce, Charles would need to take care of JJ because Lori wasn't going to care for him anymore. Lori said "Charles was already dead and a demon was using his body as a host.
The demon's name was Ned Schneider." When asked how she knew he wasn't Charles, Lori said, "He's shorter."
Raymond says later in the week, Lori told Raymond that Charles did not know she was in Hawaii. Lori said if Charles reached out, don't tell him where she was.
Lori said Charles hired a private investigator who was following her and she had told Charles she was going to Idaho for a conference. She thought that Charles was going to serve her with divorce papers.
Lori left Raymond's house and went to the Kauai Beach Resort. Melanie Gibb joined Lori in Hawaii and the three women went out for lunch and a few evenings for dinner. Tylee was back in Arizona working at her aunt's chiropractic clinic. Raymond never saw JJ.
During a lunch at Calypso, Lori said Charles had sent an email to her family pleading for help. Lori showed Raymond the email and asked her not to respond to Charles if he reached out.
During a dinner with Lori and Melanie Gibb, Lori told Raymond about Charles being on a business trip. Lori said she discovered evidence of him having an affair so she canceled his flight and credit card and moved his truck from the airport parking lot.
Raymond says the first night Lori stayed with her, Lori said she had been appointed the leader of the 144,000 and she was in Hawaii to "gather" Raymond.
She wanted Raymond to join her and she would need to be separated from her children because "she had fulfilled her role in their lives" and Raymond had a great mission to now fulfill. Lori told Raymond to leave the kids with their father.
Smith has no further questions for Raymond. Archibald will be conducting cross-examination.
Archibald asks Raymond if she noticed a change in Lori's belief system between the time Lori served in the primary and the time she visited Hawaii in 2019. Raymond says her belief system changed because of a group she had recently become a part of.
Raymond says Lori's beliefs about Jesus started to change a little when Lori visited Hawaii in July 2018. In 2019, the beliefs were more amplified than before.
Raymond says she did not believe in multiple lives/probations and the church Lori and Raymond attended together did not teach this. Raymond did not hear anything about zombies in 2018 but Lori talked about it in 2019. It was a new teaching.
Archibald asking a light and dark scale. Raymond says Lori spoke with her about that in 2019 at Raymond's home. Raymond said it was an unusual teaching that they had never talked about when Lori lived in Hawaii in 2016.
Lori told Raymond in 2019 that she was a goddess. Raymond said she tried to not react and just listen to her.
Raymond asked Lori why she started to change her beliefs. Lori responded that she experienced things in the temple that had changed her life and she found a group of like-minded people who had similar experiences. Raymond told Lori she didn't believe this.
Archibald asks Raymond what she and Lori taught to the primary children in 2016-2017. Raymond says they taught scriptures, Lori did a lot of musical activities and holiday parties along with the Sunday services.
Archibald asks if the kids were taught about Jesus. "Yes." Were they taught that Jesus was good. "Yes." Were they taught Jesus healed sick people. "Yes." Were they taught Jesus cast out evil spirits. "Perhaps. I don't recall specifically."
Were they taught simple lessons about the love of God and how we need to be good people. "Yes."
Raymond says she had never met Melanie Gibb before this Hawaii visit. She says Gibb and Lori were on the same page concerning their new beliefs.
Raymond says it was a "subtly grooming" to get reaction and could "feel their ultimate goal was to include me." Raymond was not interested.
Archibald is finished with cross-examination. Rachel Smith is following up with questions. She asks who was in Lori's podcast group. Raymond says Gibb, Zulema Pastenes, Jason Mow, Thor and Chad Daybell.
Smith has no further questions for April Raymond. Raymond is excused from her subpoena and witness testimony is done for the day. I'll break everything down tonight at 7:30 p.m. on 'Courtroom Insider.'
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
8h
We are back from the break. John Prior is sitting in front of me and just leaned over the court sketch artist. He jokingly asked that when she sketches him she make him 30 lbs. lighter and younger.
Next witness called to the stand is April Raymond. She was very good friends with Lori Daybell in Hawaii.
An issue is being discussed outside of the presence of the jury because Raymond received a Facebook message showing an interview @jlumfox10 did with Lori Daybell's cousin.
Raymond says she watched about two minutes of the interview but turned it off. She says the story had nothing to do with the case or interviews. Raymond says she read some of the comments on the story.
Witnesses were told not to watch any stories or read anything about the trial. Archibald asks Raymond about the comments she read on the story. She says in general it was about the LDS Church's influence on the trial.
Archibald asks Raymond if she has been contacted by reporters about doing interviews. She says she has given them the directive from the prosector's office that she can not participate in any interviews at this time without the promise of any future interviews.
Boyce says there is no evidence that Raymond violated the exclusionary rules and she will be able to remain on the stand. Jurors are brought in. Lori has been looking at her former friend but I have not seen Raymond looks at Lori once.
Raymond lives in Hawaii and has two children. She says they met at church in Hawaii in 2016. They were introduced at church. Lori was the primary president and she asked Raymond to be one of her counselors.
They were friends outside of church, celebrated holidays together and their kids played together.
Raymond says she knew Charles Vallow. He worked from home a lot. Raymond would visit Lori at their home and Charles was a constant presence. Lori and Raymond got together a few times a week.
They would go on walks, Lori would color Raymond's hair, they would shop and planned activities for the kids at church.
Lori and Charles eventually moved from Hawaii but in Feb. 2019, the weekend before Valentine's Day, Raymond unexpectedly received a call from Lori. Lori said she was in Hawaii with Tylee and that Lori was leaving Charles.
Lori reached out again saying they needed a place to stay. Lori and Tylee went to stay with Raymond.
Lori told Raymond that Charles had an affair, he was no longer Charles and that he had turned into a demon named Ned Schneider. Lori said they were getting a divorce. Tylee was with Lori but JJ was with Charles.
Lori told Raymond she didn't bring JJ because "she was done with him" and Charles and Kay would need to figure it out.
Raymond took "done with JJ" to mean that because Lori and Charles were getting a divorce, Charles would need to take care of JJ because Lori wasn't going to care for him anymore. Lori said "Charles was already dead and a demon was using his body as a host.
The demon's name was Ned Schneider." When asked how she knew he wasn't Charles, Lori said, "He's shorter."
Raymond says later in the week, Lori told Raymond that Charles did not know she was in Hawaii. Lori said if Charles reached out, don't tell him where she was.
Lori said Charles hired a private investigator who was following her and she had told Charles she was going to Idaho for a conference. She thought that Charles was going to serve her with divorce papers.
Lori left Raymond's house and went to the Kauai Beach Resort. Melanie Gibb joined Lori in Hawaii and the three women went out for lunch and a few evenings for dinner. Tylee was back in Arizona working at her aunt's chiropractic clinic. Raymond never saw JJ.
During a lunch at Calypso, Lori said Charles had sent an email to her family pleading for help. Lori showed Raymond the email and asked her not to respond to Charles if he reached out.
During a dinner with Lori and Melanie Gibb, Lori told Raymond about Charles being on a business trip. Lori said she discovered evidence of him having an affair so she canceled his flight and credit card and moved his truck from the airport parking lot.
Raymond says the first night Lori stayed with her, Lori said she had been appointed the leader of the 144,000 and she was in Hawaii to "gather" Raymond.
She wanted Raymond to join her and she would need to be separated from her children because "she had fulfilled her role in their lives" and Raymond had a great mission to now fulfill. Lori told Raymond to leave the kids with their father.
Smith has no further questions for Raymond. Archibald will be conducting cross-examination.
Archibald asks Raymond if she noticed a change in Lori's belief system between the time Lori served in the primary and the time she visited Hawaii in 2019. Raymond says her belief system changed because of a group she had recently become a part of.
Raymond says Lori's beliefs about Jesus started to change a little when Lori visited Hawaii in July 2018. In 2019, the beliefs were more amplified than before.
Raymond says she did not believe in multiple lives/probations and the church Lori and Raymond attended together did not teach this. Raymond did not hear anything about zombies in 2018 but Lori talked about it in 2019. It was a new teaching.
Archibald asking a light and dark scale. Raymond says Lori spoke with her about that in 2019 at Raymond's home. Raymond said it was an unusual teaching that they had never talked about when Lori lived in Hawaii in 2016.
Lori told Raymond in 2019 that she was a goddess. Raymond said she tried to not react and just listen to her.
Raymond asked Lori why she started to change her beliefs. Lori responded that she experienced things in the temple that had changed her life and she found a group of like-minded people who had similar experiences. Raymond told Lori she didn't believe this.
Archibald asks Raymond what she and Lori taught to the primary children in 2016-2017. Raymond says they taught scriptures, Lori did a lot of musical activities and holiday parties along with the Sunday services.
Archibald asks if the kids were taught about Jesus. "Yes." Were they taught that Jesus was good. "Yes." Were they taught Jesus healed sick people. "Yes." Were they taught Jesus cast out evil spirits. "Perhaps. I don't recall specifically."
Were they taught simple lessons about the love of God and how we need to be good people. "Yes."
Raymond says she had never met Melanie Gibb before this Hawaii visit. She says Gibb and Lori were on the same page concerning their new beliefs.
Raymond says it was a "subtly grooming" to get reaction and could "feel their ultimate goal was to include me." Raymond was not interested.
Archibald is finished with cross-examination. Rachel Smith is following up with questions. She asks who was in Lori's podcast group. Raymond says Gibb, Zulema Pastenes, Jason Mow, Thor and Chad Daybell.
Smith has no further questions for April Raymond. Raymond is excused from her subpoena and witness testimony is done for the day. I'll break everything down tonight at 7:30 p.m. on 'Courtroom Insider.'
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Niner
Long time Websleuther
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Thursday, April 20th:
*Trial continues (Day 8) (@ 8:30am – 3:30pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial began on 4/3/23 with jury selection & ended 4/7/23. 12 jurors & 6 alternates (10 men & 8 women).
Trial began on 4/10/23 (thru 6/9/23) @ 8:30am to 3:30pm. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last about 10 weeks) Trials have been severed.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/30/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-5 (4/3-4/7/23) & Trial Day 1-6 (4/10-4/18/23) reference post #307 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-16
4/19/23 Wednesday, Trial Day 7: State witness: Rexburg Police Det. Chuck Kunsaitis returns on stand.
For more info see post #362 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-19
State witness: Mike Douglass, forensic accountant with FBI.
For more info see posts #365 & 380 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-19
State witness: Scott Cowden, firefighter with the Chandler, Arizona Fire Dept.
For more info see post #509 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
State witness: Detective Airel Werther with the Chandler Police Dept.
For more info see post #510 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
State witness: Detective Sandra Ynclan with the Chandler Police Dept.
For more info see post #511 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
State witness: April Raymond, friend of Lori's in Hawaii.
For more info see post #512 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
Trial continues on Thursday, 4/20/23 @ 8:30am & ends every day at 3:30pm.
*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 3/2/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.
*Trial continues (Day 8) (@ 8:30am – 3:30pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4(for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial began on 4/3/23 with jury selection & ended 4/7/23. 12 jurors & 6 alternates (10 men & 8 women).
Trial began on 4/10/23 (thru 6/9/23) @ 8:30am to 3:30pm. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last about 10 weeks) Trials have been severed.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/30/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-5 (4/3-4/7/23) & Trial Day 1-6 (4/10-4/18/23) reference post #307 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-16
4/19/23 Wednesday, Trial Day 7: State witness: Rexburg Police Det. Chuck Kunsaitis returns on stand.
For more info see post #362 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-19
State witness: Mike Douglass, forensic accountant with FBI.
For more info see posts #365 & 380 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-19
State witness: Scott Cowden, firefighter with the Chandler, Arizona Fire Dept.
For more info see post #509 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
State witness: Detective Airel Werther with the Chandler Police Dept.
For more info see post #510 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
State witness: Detective Sandra Ynclan with the Chandler Police Dept.
For more info see post #511 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
State witness: April Raymond, friend of Lori's in Hawaii.
For more info see post #512 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-70.674566/page-26
Trial continues on Thursday, 4/20/23 @ 8:30am & ends every day at 3:30pm.
*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 3/2/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.
Nikynoo
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Well, he only had 4k remaining, so I don’t think it was just time that was the issue.
Yeah, but Tylee was dead. Dead is the despicable part, not taking her daughter's last $10
Of course I believe the cult conspired to get rid of Tylee and JJ. But I'm not completely sure why. I think it is entirely possible that Chad and Lori convinced Alex to kill Tylee with a wink and a nod. Is that a conspiracy? Legally, yes, probably. Is there evidence of if it? I haven't seen any,
I am now 100% in the camp that there was a plan. But I'm just seeing very week evidence being presented and if I were a juror I would definitely have reasonable doubt at this point. That could easily change.
I think there was a meeting of the minds. But where is the hard evidence. Do we get to assume that probably Lori and Chad wanted the kids and spouses gone so they could finally <modsnip - circumventing the profanity filter> freely? Of course they did. But they need to be convicted based on evidence. After 3 years of following this situation I personally believe they "conspired" to kill the kids and Tammy. But I am still far from being convinced that Lori (or Chad) specifically conspired to murder. I'm just not seeing good evidence.
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Yes, and I think there will be better evidence there. Although with AC dead that may be difficult.
BIB
Seriously?
Put yourself in Lori's shoes. Is it really for one moment tenable that your brother murders one of your kids, you cover up the absence, then he murders your other kid and you go on holiday?
I mean if one of my kids disappears I am pretty alarmed and am reporting it and looking for them!
If I cover up that they are even missing - surely that is overwhelming evidence I was in on it?
Even before you factor in that it happened twice?
Nikynoo
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There is a lot of circumstantial evidence - it is unlikely that we will get a recorded plan (e.g. written or verbal). Below is soe of the cirumstantial evidence.
- change of bank account for the receipt of Tylee's social security, from Tylee to Lori
- also no change of bank account for the Jeep payment to mirror the above
- the selling or trying to sell JJ's companion dog
- that Lori 'was done with' JJ
- that Lori stated that JJ would not live a long life
- that both Tylee and JJ were 'zombies'
- the conversation between April and Lori about leaving April's children behind indicates Lori's thinking around minors
- that Tammy was possessed of a spirit called Viola
- that Tammy had suspiscions that Chad was having an affair
- that Chad increased Tammys life insurance
ETA I have purposely kept this list to acts before each of the victims deaths.
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