ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72

[Patch Tuesday]

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was presumed the late wife had died of natural causes but was exhumed recently and her death is now being investigated.
The new wife's husband was shot in a family argument earlier this year:

Chandler Police identify man who was shot dead during family fight

The husband and wife are not cooperating with police and have since vanished.

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION*

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS* NO DISCUSSION #2

ID - Joshua Vallow & Tylee Ryan, Rexburg, Sept 2019 - TIMELINE ONLY *NO DISCUSSION*

Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #8 Thread #9
Thread #10 Thread #11 Thread #12 Thread #13 Thread #14 Thread #15 Thread #16 Thread #17 Thread #18 Thread #19 Thread #20 Thread #21 Thread #22 Thread #23 Thread #24 Thread #25 Thread #26 Thread #27 Thread #28 Thread #29 Thread #30 Thread #31 Thread #32 Thread #33 Thread #34 Thread #35 Thread #36 Thread #37 Thread #38 Thread #39 Thread #40 Thread #41 Thread #42 Thread #43 Thread #44 Thread #45 Thread #46 Thread #47 Thread #48 Thread #49 Thread #50 Thread #51 Thread #52 Thread #53 Thread #54 Thread #55 Thread #56 Thread #57 Thread #58 Thread #59 Thread #60 Thread #61 Thread #62 Thread #63 Thread #64 Thread #65 Thread #66 Thread #67 Thread #68 Thread #69 Thread #70 Thread #71

 

[Sillybilly]

OFF TOPIC BUT IMPORTANT

There seems to be some confusion and concerns being expressed about Timeline posts not being linked in the Opening Posts.

Mods, Admins, Coordinators ... we've all had discussion about this over the last year and we just don't know why or when members started requesting WS staff to make all these additions and changes to the Opening Posts of new threads. We are a very limited staff and this is something members have historically done on their own that doesn't create any extra work for WS staff.

It is a very simple system that was set up years ago and has worked well in the past. We don't need to duplicate effort or reinvent the wheel here.

In each forum, i.e. "Located Persons Discussion", members will see at the top of the page, a sub forum called for example "Located Timeline and Media Links"

As you can see, any member can start an appropriately titled new timeline thread within such a forum and make or copy their Timeline posts and all subsequent revisions or updates into that thread. It can be titled something like Vallow & Daybell Media, Maps & Timeline (or just Vallow & Daybell Timeline thread if they want to keep it separate and apart from Media and Maps). If the thread gets titled Media, Maps and Timelines, all members have to do is use the search feature within that thread for the word Timeline. That's what these features are for.

When a member has created the Timeline thread, WS staff link it ONCE in the Opening Post and it never has to be changed again, regardless of whether it's 1 or 100 new discussion threads for any given case.

If there is any question about the above, please contact any Mod or Admin and we'll be glad to clarify.

If nobody else is going to do it for this case, when one of us gets time (not sure when that will be), we will set up the timeline thread for you in this case and copy all of Gardener1850's timeline posts into it. We will update the link in the Opening Post and it will never have to change after that.

Truly hope this clarifies.

 

[Sillybilly]

Hey everyone,

Mommacass has now been verified as a family member. We'll leave it to mommacass if they wish to share how they factor into the family relationships in this case.

As a verified member, mommacass does not have to provide links to the information they provide. You may ask mommacass questions but it is up to them whether they answer or not.

Please be respectful to them at all times and do not argue with them or badger them for information.

 

[Gardenista]

 

[RickshawFan]

You can't duct tape or suffocate in a fit of rage. It takes a long time to die from asphyxiation. JJ was extensively duct taped.

MOO

And you have to go shopping for a large amount of duct tape and have it right at your finger tips at the right moment....

 

[Kemug]

Would Chad have a bit of extra knowledge about things related to death and burial due to his past work as a gravedigger, do you think?

 

[RickshawFan]

From following so many crime cases, killers start off trying to burn a body completely. They don't realize it takes a high consistent temperature and a very long time. They abandon the attempt at burning and break up the body and dump or bury what's left. I'm going to guess this is what happened in this case. I hate that this happened to a beautiful young soul. Imo

Counter example: In the Chandler Halderson case, he dismembered his parents so they would fit in the fireplace. He couldn't burn all the sections, so he disposed of them hither and yon, but it does seem like the dismemberment was step 1 after the murder. And yep, the burnt pieces were entirely consumed. Incinerated skull fragments were in the ash.

 

[Gut_feeling]

He forgets who says what to.

We all 'know' Chad, Tammy was having a short probation this life. Remember???

Were your children not part of THAT scripture???

All the girls in his harem certainly knew it....

His goose is cooked...even with the advantage he has of being severed from Lori's trial.

He's a piece of work! Man! He probably wanted her on the floor to create a scene that didn't lend itself at first glance to being smothered with a pillow. Nate Eaton interviewed the M.E., he said GHB was found in JJ's liver. He said it could be naturally occuring, but it also could have been given to J.J. Was Tammy's body tested in the same way autopsy after they exhumed her? Maybe Chad gave her something to knock her out and then smothered her so she wouldn't have defensive wounds/struggle?

Edited to fix my language regarding Chad

 

[meanmaryjean]

I wonder if Summer was in court today when it was revealed that Alex's fingerprints were on those garbage bags?

 

[RickshawFan]

*graphic*

Vile is being too kind a description.

Regarding the chop marks on Tylee's pelvic/hip bones, I can only guess that Tylee's body was not burning quickly enough and Chad or Alex tried chopping up her pelvis into pieces with an axe perhaps attempting to hasten the burning. Really a horrible speculation and I do apologize for stating it. JMO.

Didn't the coroner or anthropologist say yesterday those marks happened pre-mortem?

 

[RickshawFan]

Lori just walked into hte courtroom. She is wearing zebra-ish white and black patterned pants, a black top and a black jacket. She is chatting and smiling with her attorneys.

Snipped. Wearing a representation of a hunted and skinned, beautiful, animal seems like a bad plan.

 

[RickshawFan]

I know that I've heard that human decomposition odour is unmistakable to anyone who knows it - police, paramedics, etc. - but generally, members of the public who don't have that experience with it often think there is a problem with their drains or sewers, or there is garbage piling up somewhere, when actually, their neighbour died alone in their apartment a week or two ago. Having that experience for context seems to be important, otherwise, it's just a really bad smell your brain categorises in the same box as the other worst organic smells you've smelt in your life. I think burning human flesh would be the same. Unless someone is a firefighter, police, medic or pathologist, would they know it from any other revolting meaty burning odour?

Also, we know they checked the wind direction, and I think they were banking on the smoke and much of the smell being carried off in a direction where most of the neighbours weren't.

MOO

In the Halderson case,, a neighbor described an aroma of roasting pork (e.g. in a barbecue).

 

[Onsdag]

Here’s an article. Its’s about his kids…

"My room was down the hall. And I heard a thump," said Garth Daybell. "And heard my dad yell, 'Garth, Garth, come quick,' with the most panic I'd ever heard in his voice."

Garth Daybell said his mother was already dead and they called 911.

"My dad was just pacing back and forth," Garth recalled. "Just saying, 'Why? How could this happen?' Pointing at pictures on the wall, 'She can't be dead. Like, how could this be? What do we do?'"

more at link

Chad Daybell's children reveal authorities told them their mother was asphyxiated

Daybell is accused of murdering their mother, Tammy. A possible motive? To marry new wife Lori Vallow and collect insurance money. His children don't believe it.

www.cbsnews.com

isn’t Garth expected to testify? Wonder what he’ll say now?

Bingo!

Chad is a storyteller, he wrote fictional works and love letters. He's trying to sell a story to his audience... Garth. Tammy had clearly been dead for several hours and was cold - she wasn't going to be rolling out of bed on her own, someone had to assist her... for dramatic effect. Coupled with the "most panic" in his voice that he could muster and lamenting his 'loss' he apparently did a good job selling his narrative to his son and soon-to-be witness.

MOO and speculation, of course.

I'm hoping Chad's contradictory stories that he told different audiences will be brought up. Like how he told AVOW that she died peacefully in her sleep.

 

[RickshawFan]

It's quite the thing when the dead roll out of bed- especially when they roll away from a man Chad's size. Tammy basically managed to roll uphill dead.

At least in this version of the story.

MOO

He jumped off the bed, the middle suddenly lifted and rolled Tammy downhill?

This whole scenario is ridiculous anyway. Most people would notice if someone in the same bed is cold. They'd radiate cold. I'll bet it's possible Chad slept in a different room.

 

[Onsdag]

He jumped off the bed, the middle suddenly lifted and rolled Tammy downhill?

This whole scenario is ridiculous anyway. Most people would notice if someone in the same bed is cold. They'd radiate cold. I'll bet it's possible Chad slept in a different room.

I'll bet it's possible that he didn't sleep at all... too busy setting the stage, hiding evidence, plotting, planning, even worrying about the next critical moments when his evil "show" was put into motion.

JM biased O.

 

[SuziQ]

Counter example: In the Chandler Halderson case, he dismembered his parents so they would fit in the fireplace. He couldn't burn all the sections, so he disposed of them hither and yon, but it does seem like the dismemberment was step 1 after the murder. And yep, the burnt pieces were entirely consumed. Incinerated skull fragments were in the ash.

He was successful because he had privacy and time to do what he needed. Those that don't scramble to get rid of remains after attempted burning because it wasn't as easy as they thought. And how many partially burned remains are discovered because the killer lights the remains on fire, and leaves the scene, and the fire goes out?

 

[SuziQ]

I was busy and missed a lot today. Tylee's DNA on the pick ax take from Chad's property.

Experts: Blood, flesh, fingerprints provide evidence of what happened to Daybell's children

Experts continued to testify Thursday about autopsies and analysis of the remains of Lori Vallow Daybell's two children who were found buried on her new husband's property.

www.ksl.com

 

[Caylee Advocate]

No matter how many times I read this article, I always seem to find a nugget I inadvertently missed from the time before. This time was:

Emma Murray: When my dad left, they arrested him. … Some police officers told me that they had discovered human remains on the property. … I was standing in the doorway of the police car as he was sitting inside, handcuffed. And the first thing he asked me was, "Do you know why they arrested me?" And my thought was, "How do you not know?" And I was crying. I said, "Dad, they found human remains." And his face went white, and his eyes went wide. He was shocked.

I wonder if investigators ever went back to look for that daggone pesky raccoon's remains, since the claim was made by this same daughter that there was a 2nd "pet cemetery" on this same property?

Chad Daybell's children claim he was "fooled in the worst, most deadly way possible" by Lori Vallow

For the first time together, the five children of the accused child murderer defend their father who, along with his new wife, is charged with the 2019 murders of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

www.cbsnews.com

 

[k-mac]

No matter how many times I read this article, I always seem to find a nugget I inadvertently missed from the time before. This time was:

Emma Murray: When my dad left, they arrested him. … Some police officers told me that they had discovered human remains on the property. … I was standing in the doorway of the police car as he was sitting inside, handcuffed. And the first thing he asked me was, "Do you know why they arrested me?" And my thought was, "How do you not know?" And I was crying. I said, "Dad, they found human remains." And his face went white, and his eyes went wide. He was shocked.

I wonder if investigators ever went back to look for that daggone pesky raccoon's remains, since the claim was made by this same daughter that there was a 2nd "pet cemetery" on this same property?

Chad Daybell's children claim he was "fooled in the worst, most deadly way possible" by Lori Vallow

For the first time together, the five children of the accused child murderer defend their father who, along with his new wife, is charged with the 2019 murders of JJ Vallow and Tylee Ryan.

www.cbsnews.com

hey Caylee A
I would really like to see there was no raccoon ever buried there too. (just to prove him a liar yet again)

But at the end of the day....what would be the chances that Chad was there killing and burying a 'raccoon' on his property (one pet cemetary 2 pet cemetary ) the very same day that... A boogie man invisibly incinerated and buried his soon to be new wife's inconvenient dark zombie daughter there too.

And...him needing to tell TAMMY. She was away. (conveniently.)

It doesn't matter...his goose is cooked!


As Chad said at the time....goodtimes. :-/

nasty nasty man.

 

[KonaHonu]

He was successful because he had privacy and time to do what he needed. Those that don't scramble to get rid of remains after attempted burning because it wasn't as easy as they thought. And how many partially burned remains are discovered because the killer lights the remains on fire, and leaves the scene, and the fire goes out?

Not really responding to this post, just using it to launch some comments.

Warning, this post might seem to be graphic and callous but I am just trying to provide some analysis.

My understanding is that human flesh behaves a lot like pork when "cooked." Most of us have cooked pork. you would need a lot of time and a very hot fire to completely dispose of a body. An accelerant like gasoline would help but what you really need is to blow oxygen on the fire to get it really hot. Since Tylee's body was largely consumed they must have spent quite a bit of time (hours) or used some means to make a really hot fire. An oxyacetylene welding set could have been rented to produce a really hot fire. We have heard nothing about this nor have we heard if LE ever canvassed local welding supply stores to look for evidence.

The other thing you have to do to ensure complete burning of, say, yard debris that I suspect many of us have experience with is break it up as burning progresses. I am personally largely ignoring all this testimony about tool marks because I think they are just seeing marks from a shovel, pickaxe, or hatchet used to break up the body. You would expect to see them on the hips and pelvis because that is the most massive part of the body and would be the last part to burn.

The apparent knife marks to her pubic area are troubling. They could be incidental to trying to break up her pelvis. I cannot think of any reason a girl would be stabbed in her pubic area except torture.