If you think about it, Alex and Tammy died in similar ways. I also suspect there was a substance involved but have no idea what it might have been. But then we have a bigger problem. Chad and Lori were in Hawaii when Alex died.
ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72
- Thread starter Patch Tuesday
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It's curious to me that neither the prosecution nor defense asked about the nightmare.
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Summary of tweets for Monday, May 1st - Day 14
State witness: Rick Wright, Contract special investigator for the FBI. Was case manager for JJ's case / Part 2
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
12h
NEW THREAD: We are back from lunch. Boyce is on the bench and jurors are being brought in.
Wright is back on the witness stand. Blake will continue her questioning.
On Oct. 16, the device associated with Alex Cox left Lori's apartment and went to the Comfort Inn in Hurricane, Utah. It stopped there for the night and the next day (Oct. 17) went to the Las Vegas airport.
The next day, on Oct. 18, the device went back to Rexburg. Lori Vallow had taken a flight from Las Vegas to Hawaii on Oct. 17.
We now see a map and chart explaining Alex's device on Oct. 18. It was at Chick-fil-A in Ammon from 7:58 - 9:32 p.m. A data point is then collected near the Salem LDS Church near Chad's house from 10:45 - 11:53 p.m.
There becomes a period of time without any data but the next data point is near US Highway at 11:53 p.m. The device does not go back to Alex's apartment - rather, it goes to the Hilton Garden in Idaho Falls.
The next slide is a map that shows where Alex's device lingered at the Salem LDS Church. The distance between Chad's house and the church is around 2.5 miles. Thirty minutes of data points are collected and then there is 1.5 hours of no data.
Wright says police could not identify anyone else who Alex knew living in the area.
Wright points out on a map where data points were collected outside the LDS Church building the night Tammy Daybell died. "We then don't know where the device is for an hour and eight minutes."
Wright identified three days when Alex's device went in the vicinity of the Daybell residence: Oct. 9, Oct. 15 and Oct. 18.
Blake has no further questions. John Thomas will conduct cross-examination.
Thomas asks Wright about his professional and educational background.
Wright retired in Aug. 2021 as a special agent and is now a consultant doing background investigations for the FBI.
Thomas asks about Wright's interaction with Ian Pawlowski. Wright sat in during an interview Ian had with Rexburg Police in December 2019.
Thomas asks Wright how long it takes to develop enough data where you can develop a pattern on a person. "If I saw something happen every day for a week at a certain time and place, I would start to think that's a pattern.
In this case, I only had those two months to look at. When I say pattern, it's based only on that information."
Wright says Alex didn't have much of a pattern to his activities and they varied day-to-day.
Thomas asks Wright about mapping software he used for the GPS data. Wright says his colleague Nick Ballance imported all the data into a Google Earth file and that's what was shown on the screen today.
Thomas asks Wright about the phone associated to Alex being at Chad's house on Sept. 23. "Based on your training, your experience, your knowledge working with the FBI -
that's not enough time to dig a hole, dig a grave, chop up roots around the grave, find stones - 17 minutes is not enough time to do all that?" Wright says he was there when JJ was found and he believes it would have taken a lot more time than 17 minutes.
Thomas has no further questions. Blake has some re-direct questions.
Blake asks for clarification on cell activity and data points. She then says, "You were also asked if 17 minutes was enough time to dig that grave. In your opinion, would 17 minutes be enough time for one person to dig that grave?"
Wright says it would be hard for one person to dig the grave. Blake asks if it's possible more than one person was involved. He says yes and reminds everyone that the 17 minutes is the time the device was there - and not necessarily the time to dig the gravesite.
Blake has nothing further.
Wright leaves the witness stand and Blake asks for a brief sidebar. White noise is played in the courtroom. Before standing up, Thomas turned around and gave his daughter (who is sitting in front of me) a big thumbs up and a wink.
Fifteen of the 18 jurors stand to stretch their legs. Many are chatting with each other. Many in the audience also standing. These days can be long sitting for 6-7 hours.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
State witness: Rick Wright, Contract special investigator for the FBI. Was case manager for JJ's case / Part 2
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
12h
NEW THREAD: We are back from lunch. Boyce is on the bench and jurors are being brought in.
Wright is back on the witness stand. Blake will continue her questioning.
On Oct. 16, the device associated with Alex Cox left Lori's apartment and went to the Comfort Inn in Hurricane, Utah. It stopped there for the night and the next day (Oct. 17) went to the Las Vegas airport.
The next day, on Oct. 18, the device went back to Rexburg. Lori Vallow had taken a flight from Las Vegas to Hawaii on Oct. 17.
We now see a map and chart explaining Alex's device on Oct. 18. It was at Chick-fil-A in Ammon from 7:58 - 9:32 p.m. A data point is then collected near the Salem LDS Church near Chad's house from 10:45 - 11:53 p.m.
There becomes a period of time without any data but the next data point is near US Highway at 11:53 p.m. The device does not go back to Alex's apartment - rather, it goes to the Hilton Garden in Idaho Falls.
The next slide is a map that shows where Alex's device lingered at the Salem LDS Church. The distance between Chad's house and the church is around 2.5 miles. Thirty minutes of data points are collected and then there is 1.5 hours of no data.
Wright says police could not identify anyone else who Alex knew living in the area.
Wright points out on a map where data points were collected outside the LDS Church building the night Tammy Daybell died. "We then don't know where the device is for an hour and eight minutes."
Wright identified three days when Alex's device went in the vicinity of the Daybell residence: Oct. 9, Oct. 15 and Oct. 18.
Blake has no further questions. John Thomas will conduct cross-examination.
Thomas asks Wright about his professional and educational background.
Wright retired in Aug. 2021 as a special agent and is now a consultant doing background investigations for the FBI.
Thomas asks about Wright's interaction with Ian Pawlowski. Wright sat in during an interview Ian had with Rexburg Police in December 2019.
Thomas asks Wright how long it takes to develop enough data where you can develop a pattern on a person. "If I saw something happen every day for a week at a certain time and place, I would start to think that's a pattern.
In this case, I only had those two months to look at. When I say pattern, it's based only on that information."
Wright says Alex didn't have much of a pattern to his activities and they varied day-to-day.
Thomas asks Wright about mapping software he used for the GPS data. Wright says his colleague Nick Ballance imported all the data into a Google Earth file and that's what was shown on the screen today.
Thomas asks Wright about the phone associated to Alex being at Chad's house on Sept. 23. "Based on your training, your experience, your knowledge working with the FBI -
that's not enough time to dig a hole, dig a grave, chop up roots around the grave, find stones - 17 minutes is not enough time to do all that?" Wright says he was there when JJ was found and he believes it would have taken a lot more time than 17 minutes.
Thomas has no further questions. Blake has some re-direct questions.
Blake asks for clarification on cell activity and data points. She then says, "You were also asked if 17 minutes was enough time to dig that grave. In your opinion, would 17 minutes be enough time for one person to dig that grave?"
Wright says it would be hard for one person to dig the grave. Blake asks if it's possible more than one person was involved. He says yes and reminds everyone that the 17 minutes is the time the device was there - and not necessarily the time to dig the gravesite.
Blake has nothing further.
Wright leaves the witness stand and Blake asks for a brief sidebar. White noise is played in the courtroom. Before standing up, Thomas turned around and gave his daughter (who is sitting in front of me) a big thumbs up and a wink.
Fifteen of the 18 jurors stand to stretch their legs. Many are chatting with each other. Many in the audience also standing. These days can be long sitting for 6-7 hours.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Niner
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Summary of tweets for Monday, May 1st - Day 14
State witness: Dr. Erik Christensen, Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Utah.
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
11h
Blake calls Dr. Erik Christensen to the stand. He is the Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Utah.
Christensen explains his background in forensic pathology.
Christensen performs autopsies and has worked as a forensic pathologist in Virginia and South Carolina before moving to Utah.
Blake asks Christensen the process in which autopsies are performed in Utah. Thomas objects and says Utah procedures don't matter in this case. Blake responds that Christensen performed an autopsy in this case (Tammy Daybell). Boyce overrules the objection.
Utah does not have the coroner system. In Idaho, each county has a coroner to investigate cause of death. Medical examiners are used in Utah.
Christensen has performed around 7,200 autopsies in his career.
Christensen performed Tammy Daybell's autopsy. He says his office was contacted in Nov. 2019 by the Fremont County Sheriff's Office with questions about exhuming a body and having an autopsy done. Christensen was there when Tammy was exhumed and her body was loaded into a vehicle
He then went to his office and was there when the body arrived.
Christensen says it's routine for him or someone in his office to attend an exhumation when they are needed.
Christensen obtained Tammy's medical records before she was exhumed. Over the course of his career, he says he's been involved in "a dozen or two" exhumations. They are not common.
Blake asks if a body is exhumed does it make it more difficult to do an autopsy? Christensen says most of the time, the deceased person has been embalmed so it makes their tissues stiffer but that also helps preserves the organs, tissues, etc.
Christensen says Tammy's casket was dry and the conditions were fairly good when it came time to do the autopsy.
Sketches from this morning
Blake asks Christensen to describe how an autopsy is done. He explains that the entire body is checked over, fluids are taken, body parts are examined - it's a very thorough exam.
Samples are collected during an autopsy to assess under a microscope. Bruises, cuts and scrapes are also examined under a microscope because they give information about how long the injury has been on a body, Christensen says.
Christensen says Tammy's cause of death was asphyxia and her manner of death was homicide.
Blake asks Christensen what asphyxia means. "It's simply a process by which a person is deprived of oxygen. They're not allowed to take in sufficient oxygen for their life to continue."
Christensen says there were no outward visible bruises or injuries that showed she died of those injuries.
Christensen explains there was no indication that Tammy had a history of seizures and her brain was totally normal.
"There are a number of ways people can be asphyxiated with. Suffocation, neck compression, anything that impairs someone's ability to breathe normally," Christensen says. When someone stops breathing, they lose consciousness but their heart can continue to beat for a time.
Christensen says they looked at pesticides and other potential drugs. There was nothing in her system that played a role in her death.
There were bruises on Tammy's arms that happened in the hours around the type of her death, Christensen says. "They are consistent with someone being restrained and would be consistent with asphyxia being cause of death as well."
Blake asks Christensen about seizures and whether he has conducted autopsies of people with seizure issues. He says yes. There are often tongue injuries and bowel or bladder issues. Tammy had neither.
Christensen says it would be uncommon for a 49-year-old woman like Tammy to start developing seizures.
Nothing in Tammy's medical records showed she had seizure or heart issues, Christensen says.
Christensen says testing was done for intoxicants. Blake asks if this means poisons. He says yes, it includes that.
They tested for hundreds of intoxicants, illicit drugs and over-the-counter medications along with insecticides, cyanide, heavy metals, phosphate positions, nerve agents - none of those were found.
"We did a lot more testing in this case than we normally would and everything came back negative except the medication she was prescribed," Christensen says, adding that it's one of the most extensive autopsies he's been involved in.
The optimal substance to test is blood. Because Tammy had been embalmed, liver samples were sent to be tested. Christensen looks directly at the jury while explaining all of this.
"There was not a toxicological explanation for her death," Christensen says.
Boyce announces we are taking an afternoon break until 2:30 p.m.
Boyce is back on the bench and jurors are being brought in.
Blake asks if Tammy's organs appeared normal. Christensen says for the most part, yes...but there was fluid in the lungs & a frothy dry foam in her airways. Blake asks to show a photo to the courtroom. It's a closeup of Tammy's face that shows the pink foam coming from her mouth
The pink foam is a manifestation of pulmonary edema, Christensen says. He has conducted other autopsies where this foam has been present. Pulmonary edema is a physical manifestation of an underlying process.
"We most commonly see this kind of setting in opioid intoxication and can be seen in drownings, heart failure, any number of things that can cause pulmonary edema."
"Whatever caused the pulmonary edema would be the cause of death," Christensen explains. He says this played a part in him determining asphyxia was the cause of death.
Blake gives Christensen a paper to mark where he located the bruises on Tammy's body. Boyce asks what he is using to mark the sheet. Christensen responds that it's a blue pen.
Christensen has finished marking the exhibit. Blake asks the diagrams be shown to the court.
The exhibits are now being shown on the screen. We see a diagram of the front of Tammy's body.
Christensen marked three blue dots representing bruises on Tammy's upper right arm, a blue dot on the lower right arm, a mark on the chest above her left breast and a blue dot on the left arm over the bicep.
On the diagram of the back, there are bruises on the back of the right upper arm, one on the lower part of the arm and one on the left arm.
Blake now wants to show close-up photos of the bruises found on Tammy's body.
The first photo shows Tammy's left upper chest with a bruise. We are not shown the image but Christensen describes it. The next picture shows a closer view of the bruise. We see this image. It is black/dark blue.
The following photo will not be shown but it's her upper arm with bruises on her right bicep. The following photo is a close-up of the bruise and we see the picture. We now see an image of Tammy's right forearm with bruises on it.
The next picture is the front side of Tammy's right forearm with a bruise. Other photos show more bruising on Tammy's arms.
Christensen says it's more than likely the bruises were on Tammy's body before she died because once circulation stops, it's much harder to cause a hemmorage.
Christensen says the injuries on Tammy's body occurred around the time of death.
More photos are shown of the bruising on Tammy's body. Some of the photos are shown to the entire courtroom, others are not. Christensen explains the injuries.
Christensen noticed signs of lividity. This is when the blood pools at the lowest point of a person's body following their death. Over time, the lividly becomes "fixed" & the blood will no longer be moveable. Christensen says on Tammy's body, there was fixed lividity on her back.
Blake asks Christensen is lividity permits him to determine a cause of death. He says no. Blake asks what rigor mortis is. This is the stiffening of the joints and muscles a few hours after death.
Blake asks Christensen if a time of death can be determined off rigor mortis. He says it can be looked at and helps but the longer a person has been dead, the wider the time of death estimates would be.
Christensen was not present the day Tammy died and says he relies on external information to help determine when a person dies. Christensen says based on what Chad said about Tammy being cold and stiff at 6 a.m., it's likely she died a couple hours earlier.
Christensen says he looked at other causes of death and did not find them to be likely in Tammy's death. He again stresses the cause of death was asphyxia and the manner of death was homicide. Blake has no further questions for the medical examiner.
The monitors will now be arranged to the jury, attorneys and judge can see the graphic images of Tammy's bruises. The audience will not be able to see them.
Blake shows the images as Christensen describes them.
Lori is not looking at the monitor that shows the bruises.
The photos have all been shown to the jury. Black has nothing further. Defense attorneys will cross-examine starting tomorrow.
Court is adjourned. Some big developments today.
Two more sketches from today. The one with Dr. Christensen shows blue marks he made on a diagram showing bruises he observed on Tammy Daybell's body during the autopsy.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
State witness: Dr. Erik Christensen, Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Utah.
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
11h
Blake calls Dr. Erik Christensen to the stand. He is the Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Utah.
Christensen explains his background in forensic pathology.
Christensen performs autopsies and has worked as a forensic pathologist in Virginia and South Carolina before moving to Utah.
Blake asks Christensen the process in which autopsies are performed in Utah. Thomas objects and says Utah procedures don't matter in this case. Blake responds that Christensen performed an autopsy in this case (Tammy Daybell). Boyce overrules the objection.
Utah does not have the coroner system. In Idaho, each county has a coroner to investigate cause of death. Medical examiners are used in Utah.
Christensen has performed around 7,200 autopsies in his career.
Christensen performed Tammy Daybell's autopsy. He says his office was contacted in Nov. 2019 by the Fremont County Sheriff's Office with questions about exhuming a body and having an autopsy done. Christensen was there when Tammy was exhumed and her body was loaded into a vehicle
He then went to his office and was there when the body arrived.
Christensen says it's routine for him or someone in his office to attend an exhumation when they are needed.
Christensen obtained Tammy's medical records before she was exhumed. Over the course of his career, he says he's been involved in "a dozen or two" exhumations. They are not common.
Blake asks if a body is exhumed does it make it more difficult to do an autopsy? Christensen says most of the time, the deceased person has been embalmed so it makes their tissues stiffer but that also helps preserves the organs, tissues, etc.
Christensen says Tammy's casket was dry and the conditions were fairly good when it came time to do the autopsy.
Sketches from this morning
Blake asks Christensen to describe how an autopsy is done. He explains that the entire body is checked over, fluids are taken, body parts are examined - it's a very thorough exam.
Samples are collected during an autopsy to assess under a microscope. Bruises, cuts and scrapes are also examined under a microscope because they give information about how long the injury has been on a body, Christensen says.
Christensen says Tammy's cause of death was asphyxia and her manner of death was homicide.
Blake asks Christensen what asphyxia means. "It's simply a process by which a person is deprived of oxygen. They're not allowed to take in sufficient oxygen for their life to continue."
Christensen says there were no outward visible bruises or injuries that showed she died of those injuries.
Christensen explains there was no indication that Tammy had a history of seizures and her brain was totally normal.
"There are a number of ways people can be asphyxiated with. Suffocation, neck compression, anything that impairs someone's ability to breathe normally," Christensen says. When someone stops breathing, they lose consciousness but their heart can continue to beat for a time.
Christensen says they looked at pesticides and other potential drugs. There was nothing in her system that played a role in her death.
There were bruises on Tammy's arms that happened in the hours around the type of her death, Christensen says. "They are consistent with someone being restrained and would be consistent with asphyxia being cause of death as well."
Blake asks Christensen about seizures and whether he has conducted autopsies of people with seizure issues. He says yes. There are often tongue injuries and bowel or bladder issues. Tammy had neither.
Christensen says it would be uncommon for a 49-year-old woman like Tammy to start developing seizures.
Nothing in Tammy's medical records showed she had seizure or heart issues, Christensen says.
Christensen says testing was done for intoxicants. Blake asks if this means poisons. He says yes, it includes that.
They tested for hundreds of intoxicants, illicit drugs and over-the-counter medications along with insecticides, cyanide, heavy metals, phosphate positions, nerve agents - none of those were found.
"We did a lot more testing in this case than we normally would and everything came back negative except the medication she was prescribed," Christensen says, adding that it's one of the most extensive autopsies he's been involved in.
The optimal substance to test is blood. Because Tammy had been embalmed, liver samples were sent to be tested. Christensen looks directly at the jury while explaining all of this.
"There was not a toxicological explanation for her death," Christensen says.
Boyce announces we are taking an afternoon break until 2:30 p.m.
Boyce is back on the bench and jurors are being brought in.
Blake asks if Tammy's organs appeared normal. Christensen says for the most part, yes...but there was fluid in the lungs & a frothy dry foam in her airways. Blake asks to show a photo to the courtroom. It's a closeup of Tammy's face that shows the pink foam coming from her mouth
The pink foam is a manifestation of pulmonary edema, Christensen says. He has conducted other autopsies where this foam has been present. Pulmonary edema is a physical manifestation of an underlying process.
"We most commonly see this kind of setting in opioid intoxication and can be seen in drownings, heart failure, any number of things that can cause pulmonary edema."
"Whatever caused the pulmonary edema would be the cause of death," Christensen explains. He says this played a part in him determining asphyxia was the cause of death.
Blake gives Christensen a paper to mark where he located the bruises on Tammy's body. Boyce asks what he is using to mark the sheet. Christensen responds that it's a blue pen.
Christensen has finished marking the exhibit. Blake asks the diagrams be shown to the court.
The exhibits are now being shown on the screen. We see a diagram of the front of Tammy's body.
Christensen marked three blue dots representing bruises on Tammy's upper right arm, a blue dot on the lower right arm, a mark on the chest above her left breast and a blue dot on the left arm over the bicep.
On the diagram of the back, there are bruises on the back of the right upper arm, one on the lower part of the arm and one on the left arm.
Blake now wants to show close-up photos of the bruises found on Tammy's body.
The first photo shows Tammy's left upper chest with a bruise. We are not shown the image but Christensen describes it. The next picture shows a closer view of the bruise. We see this image. It is black/dark blue.
The following photo will not be shown but it's her upper arm with bruises on her right bicep. The following photo is a close-up of the bruise and we see the picture. We now see an image of Tammy's right forearm with bruises on it.
The next picture is the front side of Tammy's right forearm with a bruise. Other photos show more bruising on Tammy's arms.
Christensen says it's more than likely the bruises were on Tammy's body before she died because once circulation stops, it's much harder to cause a hemmorage.
Christensen says the injuries on Tammy's body occurred around the time of death.
More photos are shown of the bruising on Tammy's body. Some of the photos are shown to the entire courtroom, others are not. Christensen explains the injuries.
Christensen noticed signs of lividity. This is when the blood pools at the lowest point of a person's body following their death. Over time, the lividly becomes "fixed" & the blood will no longer be moveable. Christensen says on Tammy's body, there was fixed lividity on her back.
Blake asks Christensen is lividity permits him to determine a cause of death. He says no. Blake asks what rigor mortis is. This is the stiffening of the joints and muscles a few hours after death.
Blake asks Christensen if a time of death can be determined off rigor mortis. He says it can be looked at and helps but the longer a person has been dead, the wider the time of death estimates would be.
Christensen was not present the day Tammy died and says he relies on external information to help determine when a person dies. Christensen says based on what Chad said about Tammy being cold and stiff at 6 a.m., it's likely she died a couple hours earlier.
Christensen says he looked at other causes of death and did not find them to be likely in Tammy's death. He again stresses the cause of death was asphyxia and the manner of death was homicide. Blake has no further questions for the medical examiner.
The monitors will now be arranged to the jury, attorneys and judge can see the graphic images of Tammy's bruises. The audience will not be able to see them.
Blake shows the images as Christensen describes them.
Lori is not looking at the monitor that shows the bruises.
The photos have all been shown to the jury. Black has nothing further. Defense attorneys will cross-examine starting tomorrow.
Court is adjourned. Some big developments today.
Two more sketches from today. The one with Dr. Christensen shows blue marks he made on a diagram showing bruises he observed on Tammy Daybell's body during the autopsy.
link: https://twitter.com/NateNewsNow
Niner
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Tuesday, May 2nd:
*Trial continues (Day 15) (@ 8:30am – 3:30pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial began on 4/3/23 with jury selection & ended 4/7/23. 12 jurors & 6 alternates (10 men & 8 women).
Trial began on 4/10/23 (thru 6/9/23) @ 8:30am to 3:30pm. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last about 10 weeks) Trials have been severed.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/30/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-5 (4/3-4/7/23) & Trial Day 1-13 (4/10-4/28/23) reference post #529 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-27
5/1/23 Monday, Trial Day 14: State witness: Keeley Coleman is a senior DNA analyst at Bode Technology in Virginia.
For more info see post #582 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-30
State witness: Rick Wright, Contract special investigator for the FBI. Was case manager for JJ's case.
For more info see post #635 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-32
For more info see post #823 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-42
State witness: Dr. Erik Christensen, Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Utah. Did autopsy on Tammy.
For more info see post #824 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-42
Trial continues on Tuesday, 5/2/23 @ 8:30am & ends every day at 3:30pm.
*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 3/2/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.
*Trial continues (Day 15) (@ 8:30am – 3:30pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2020 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 49) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii on 2/20/20) & indicted & charged (5/25/21) & re-arraigned (4/19/22) with Count 1 (for Tylee): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception (for Daybell, Vallow & Alex Cox) & other co-conspirators. Count 2 (for Tylee): 1st degree murder. Count 3 (for JJ): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder & grand theft by deception. Count 4 (for JJ): 1st degree murder. Count 5 (for Tammy): Conspiracy to commit 1st degree murder. Count 6: Lori only: Grand theft (related to social security survivor benefits allocated for the care of minors Tylee & JJ). Plead not guilty. DA will seek DP. Was transferred to Ada County jail on 3/22/23. Fremont County
Conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence charges dismissed without prejudice on 7/29/21. Fremont County
Resisting or obstructing LE, solicitation of a crime & contempt of court. All charges were dismissed on 1/3/22. Madison County
Trial began on 4/3/23 with jury selection & ended 4/7/23. 12 jurors & 6 alternates (10 men & 8 women).
Trial began on 4/10/23 (thru 6/9/23) @ 8:30am to 3:30pm. Trial will be held in Ada County. (will last about 10 weeks) Trials have been severed.
Arrest & Grand Jury & Competency & Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/30/23 & Jury Selection Day 1-5 (4/3-4/7/23) & Trial Day 1-13 (4/10-4/28/23) reference post #529 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-27
5/1/23 Monday, Trial Day 14: State witness: Keeley Coleman is a senior DNA analyst at Bode Technology in Virginia.
For more info see post #582 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-30
State witness: Rick Wright, Contract special investigator for the FBI. Was case manager for JJ's case.
For more info see post #635 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-32
For more info see post #823 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-42
State witness: Dr. Erik Christensen, Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Utah. Did autopsy on Tammy.
For more info see post #824 here:
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/t...bell-charles-vallow-arrests-72.675869/page-42
Trial continues on Tuesday, 5/2/23 @ 8:30am & ends every day at 3:30pm.
*Chad Guy Daybell (53/now 54) – Pretrial motions hearing on 3/2/23. Trial was set to begin on 4/3/23 was vacated.
cottonweaver
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I recall Defense asking Warwick to give specifics about this nightmare. Warwick then replied wtte of - I guess it could be described as adversarial.
Anyway re the nightmare in relation to the other evidence, it appears as if Lori could have been awake at same time as MG, DW.
They complete recording the podcast midnightish. We were never told when they all retired to their rooms but am assuming it's before 1am. Later, DW is woken from the nightmare at unknown time
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ID - Doomsday Cult Victims - Joshua Vallow, Tylee Ryan, Tammy Daybell, Charles Vallow *Arrests* #72
I feel jj was killed there too, I don't feel that way about Tylee though. Interesting, why do you think that? What reason would Tylee have to go to Alex’s apartment?
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Yes, pulmonary embolism and pulmonary edema are two completely different things. An embolism is something that blocks blood flow to the lungs and prevents the blood from being oxygenated. It can result from air bubbles or blood clots. I think in Alex's case blood clots were found.
Pulmonary edema is a buildup of fluid in the lungs that essentially results in drowning when the tiny air sacs fill with fluid and oxygen exchange can't occur because the blood is there but the oxygen is not. Pulmonary edema is not usually considered a cause of death because it is usually a symptom of some other cause like pneumonia or being smothered.
But it can be a cause of death. There is something called HAPE - high altitude pulmonary edema that can be fatal and is caused by nothing more than being at high altitude (~10000 ft or higher). Not relevant here but HAPE can be fatal so it is wrong to say pulmonary edema is not a cause of death.
cottonweaver
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According to state's witness Tammy had far-ranging toxicology done. All negative. ( It should be in Niner's summary )
Alex iirc had the embolism, Tammy had oedema
ETA
I cross posted with Rumainations whose post I hadn't seen.
Also see Niner's summary which should have pathol explaining that oedema can never be a cause of death in itself. ( Gigi from Pretty Lies said he was emphatic)
Yeah, my wife and I divorced a few years ago after 28 years together. She did some truly awful things out of anger. But I never once even remotely considered violence or even legal ways of getting vengence like suing her for libelous things she said to try to destroy my career. I took the high road. I don't think Chad was man enough to take the high road and accept the consequences of his actions.
ETA: fixed typos
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legalmomma
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Yep. Which is the defenses argument. But Lori’s hair was found on the black plastic bag wrapped around JJ’s body. Not on his clothing. Direct evidence.
DAY 19 | LIVE UPDATES: Medical examiner who performed Tammy Daybell's autopsy takes the stand - East Idaho News
LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL 3:26 p.m. Court is adjourned. Some big developments today. I’ll break it all down tonight on ‘Courtroom Insider.’ Join me at 7:30 p.m. on the EastIdahoNews.com YouTube channel and my Facebook page. You can watch previous episodes here. 3:25 p.m...
www.eastidahonews.com
LostOldUserName
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Was there a receipt that Alex purchased duct tape? If so , when? IF close to when JJ was killed there would really be no excuse for her hair to be on the tape. Just MOOYep. Which is the defenses argument. But Lori’s hair was found on the black plastic bag wrapped around JJ’s body. Not on his clothing. Direct evidence.
DAY 19 | LIVE UPDATES: Medical examiner who performed Tammy Daybell's autopsy takes the stand - East Idaho News
LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL 3:26 p.m. Court is adjourned. Some big developments today. I’ll break it all down tonight on ‘Courtroom Insider.’ Join me at 7:30 p.m. on the EastIdahoNews.com YouTube channel and my Facebook page. You can watch previous episodes here. 3:25 p.m...
indicolite22
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Maybe Tammy was killed while on the floor (e.g. after a scuffle) and left lying on her back. Garth said that he helped Chad transfer her back to the bed. Did Chad get any sleep at all that night?
ETA: I remembered that Garth also said that he heard a noise (Tammy falling out of bed?) in the morning. If she had been dead for several hours it was dumb of Chad to claim that she fell because her leg was out of the bed. He later corrected himself and said that his pulling of the covers caused her to fall out. Still not likely.
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indicolite22
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If this happened in Lori's apartment, she was present for sure. If it was in Alex's, where did the wrapping take place? Did his apartment have any furniture (e.g. a sofa)? How often did Lori visit? The hair would not stick to the bag like it would to most clothing.Yep. Which is the defenses argument. But Lori’s hair was found on the black plastic bag wrapped around JJ’s body. Not on his clothing. Direct evidence.
DAY 19 | LIVE UPDATES: Medical examiner who performed Tammy Daybell's autopsy takes the stand - East Idaho News
LIVE UPDATES FROM THE LORI VALLOW DAYBELL TRIAL 3:26 p.m. Court is adjourned. Some big developments today. I’ll break it all down tonight on ‘Courtroom Insider.’ Join me at 7:30 p.m. on the EastIdahoNews.com YouTube channel and my Facebook page. You can watch previous episodes here. 3:25 p.m...
indicolite22
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Alex's symptoms were different from Tammy's. He lost bowel control before he died. He also complained about respiratory issues days before. To me JJ's and Tammy's deaths bear more similarities. There were signs of a struggle in both cases. If they were incapacitated by a drug, this would not be expected to happen.
indicolite22
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Her hair would have been picked up after the tape was unrolled. I don't think it was stuck to the tape before use unless it was there (at the end of the tape) since the previous use. (IMO)
Nikynoo
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Exactly. The hair being present, IMO, means that the wrapping of the body took plae either in Loris presence or in Lori's home.
Nikynoo
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and seeing of the mouth (including the bad over the head), hands and feet were bound first, it was not at the beggining of the roll.
It is depraved to think about them buying what he is selling.
Chad parading around showing off Lori to them including a new family holiday immediately after Tammys sudden removal (death) should have felt extremely callous to the daybell offspring. They were not little kids.
NOW here we are....the truth spoken loud and clear to them...Chad murdered her with his bare hands.
should compound those awkward feelings they MUST have had about the 'hot little blonde bimbo" suddenly on vaycay with them weeks after such an enormous tragedy to them.
I pray for them that they are brave enough to face the truth and love/ support their mother by rejecting this horrible insignificant evil man.
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