Summary of tweets for Tuesday, May 2nd - Day 15
State witness:
Todd Gilbert, neighbor of Daybell's /
Part 2
Nate Eaton
@NateNewsNow
·
10h
NEW THREAD: We are back from lunch. It was a longer break due to technical difficulties. Boyce is on the bench and jurors are in their seats. Todd Gilbert remains on the stand for cross-examination by Jim Archibald.
Archibald asks what church Gilbert attended with Chad and Tammy Daybell. He says the LDS Church Salem 3rd Ward.
Archibald asks Gilbert if he was familiar with Chad Daybell before Chad moved in. Gilbert says he had read some of Chad's books - "they were kind of interesting. They were based on fiction mixed with some of the visions he had seen."
Gilbert says Chad would sometimes talks with him about his visions. "Did you believe he was telling you the truth or that he was full of crap?" Archibald asks.
Gilbert says he was open to listening but wasn't sure what to think. Archibald now asks Gilbert about a book Chad wrote about him - Brother Gilbert.
"The Times of Turmoil" was a series Chad wrote about Gilbert. "When you read these books with your name in it as Brother Gilbert, was that flattery or an insult?" Archibald says. "I think it was flattery.
He told me beforehand he was going to have me in one of the books so I knew it was coming," Gilbert responds.
"I feel that he thought a lot of that stuff was going to happen that way and that's why he wrote it that way. I think he thought it was going to be real life," Gilbert says. The books were about the end of the world - bad things would happen and then Jesus would come.
Archibald asks Gilbert who Chad's target audience was for his books. "People who are into preparation, being prepared," Gilbert says.
"Being prepared to be able to survive the bad things as they go along. If you're prepared, you'll be able to handle them a lot better than if you're not."
Archibald asks about "Preparing a People" conferences and podcasts Gilbert listened to. "I know Lori was involved in a podcast with Melanie Gibb and Jason Mow."
Archibald asks Gilbert who Jason Mow is. "He's a man in Arizona that was involved in the podcast. I don't know a real lot about him," Gilbert responds.
Archibald asks who Melanie Gibb is. Gilbert says it's Lori's friend. Gilbert doesn't remember anyone else on the podcast other than Lori. "They interviewed Chad one time and we heard that." Archibald asks about Thor and Gilbert is familiar with him.
Archibald asks to play a podcast featuring Jason Mow, Lori, Melanie Gibb and Thor. Blake asks for a sidebar. White noise is played in the courtroom.
Boyce says we need to hear a motion outside the presence of the jury. Boyce asks the jurors to leave the courtroom.
Defense wants the entire one-hour, 49 minute podcast admitted as evidence and played for the jury. The prosecution does not want it admitted. Jason Mow and Thor recorded podcasts with Lori and Melanie Gibb.
Sidenote: I have reached out and attempted to interview Jason Mow and Thor a few times over the years. Neither one has expressed any interest.
Archibald says the podcast was recorded on Nov. 4, 2018. Melanie Gibb welcomes everyone. She speaks for four minutes. Thor then speaks for 14 minutes about his hard life and finding God. Jason Mow then speaks for 13 minutes.
He introduces himself as a retired police officer and now a motivational speaker. He talks about being down in the dumps and then finding Jesus. Lori Vallow is the next speaker. She talks for nine minutes.
She introduces herself and talks about her former husband Joe Ryan abusing her children and how finding Jesus and attending the temple helped her escape her scenario. Jason, Melanie, Thor, Lori, even Zulema speaks and asks questions.
"It's a podcast that I believe this witness listened to since he identified the names, he identified Lori Vallow, Melanie Gibb, Thor and Jason Mow," Archibald says.
Archibald says admitting the exhibit will help educate the jury in the religious beliefs. "Mr. Gilbert testified through questions from the state that Chad Daybell told him about dreams and vision. He was teaching gospel topics and religious subjects."
Archibald says playing the podcast will provide foundation in the case. He says the first 40 minutes are distinct in that all four of the speakers identify themselves and their history - "and then it repeats itself."
Archibald says he would be ok with playing the first 40 minutes rather than the entire podcast.
Blake says the state objects for multiple reasons. She says there is a lack of foundation, the witness testified about a podcast he heard - "there is no indication he was present to authenticate the recording was true and accurate.
He has not indicated a date or time when the podcast was made. He has not indicated the date and time he heard it. He had not indicated which media where he heard it." Blake says the podcast contains hearsay - none of the speakers on the podcast are here other than Lori. "
This appears to be an attempt by the defendant to try and get statements in without taking the stand."
Blake says there is no relevance to admitting the podcast because Gilbert simply shared some religious beliefs. "We would request if the court adamits this exhibit, we take a recess to give the state a chance to review it."
The recording is not on the state's exhibit list. Archibald said the podcast was disclosed in discovery but they did not put it on their exhibit list because "we did not know Mr. Gilbert was going to say what he said."
Boyce says the witness himself may or may not be able to lay the foundation for this. "If Mr. Gilbert recognizes this as a podcast he has listened to and can confirm it was the podcast he listened to before,
it would allow enough of a foundation for the court to potentially admit the podcast."
Boyce overrules the objection. He will allow Gilbert to hear a little of the podcast to authenticate it and then 40 minutes will be played.
But if the state wants to review the podcast after it's been authenticated, the court will stop the podcast at any point and let them review it. The first 40 minutes will be played.
Boyce says the podcast is relevant because in the indictment, the prosecutions referenced Lori's religious beliefs and this podcast talks about her religious beliefs.
Gilbert is being brought back into the courtroom. Jurors will be brought back in and Gilbert will authenticate that this is indeed the podcast he heard with Lori, Melanie Gibb and others. Once he authenticates it, the first 40 minutes will be played for the jury.
This is the first major exhibit the defense has introduced into the trial. We will hear Lori, on tape, talking about her religious experiences and beliefs.
Boyce says jurors will be held in another room for a moment while Archibald asks foundational questions for Gilbert and plays the beginning of the podcast.
Archibald plays the beginning of the podcast. We hear Melanie Gibb explaining how she spent a year praying in her closet and then feeling the love of God.
Gibb talks about sharing the love of God with others. The sound quality is not the best and it sounds like there is a bird chirping or kids playing or dogs barking. Archibald asks Gilbert if he recognizes the podcast. "I can't remember for sure but it's been a while."
Blake objects to having the podcast being played continually when it's meant to set the foundation for the testimony. The prosecution clearly does not want this podcast in.
We now hear a man talking on the podcast. Archibald asks Gilbert if he recognizes the voice. "I believe it sounds like Thor." We now hear another man speaking on the podcast. Archibald asks Gilbert if he knows who the person is. "It's Jason Mow."
We now hear Lori speaking on the podcast. "I too have seen Jesus Christ." Archibald asks Gilbert if he recognizes the voice. "Lori," he says. Blake now questioning Gilbert. She asks him if he has ever met Melanie Gibb. Gilbert says they have spoken on the phone once and met once.
Gilbert says he has never met Thor but has met Jason Mow. "Have you listened to more than one podcast?" Gilbert says yes. Blake asks if he knows when the podcast was made. "The later part of 2018." Gilbert doesn't know where he heard the podcast other than a website.
Blake asks Gilbert if he knows this is the exact podcast he listened to. He says it sounded familiar and they had more than one. "This is one of them I've listened to but they had three or four."
Blake asks Gilbert if he's able to tell this is a complete copy of what he listened to before. "Yeah, I would think so," Gilbert responds.
Blake renews her objection based on relevance. She also says the defendant is attempting to introduce a self-serving statement, which is prohibited. Blake also says it's hearsay because the three other voices on the recording are not in the courtroom.
Archibald argues sufficient foundation has been laid and he's willing to just play the first 40 minutes rather than the entire hour and 49 minutes. "I believe the state opened the door when Mr. Gilbert indicated he had listened to a podcast."
Boyce overrules the objection and will allow for 40 minutes of the podcast to be played.
Blake argues that playing the podcast will likely open to the door to more evidence - specifically a prior husband of Lori Daybell's.
Jurors are being brought in.
Archibald begins playing the podcast. Melanie Gibb talks about having issues and being angry and frustrated. She says she spent a little less than a year praying and praying and praying. Then something happened that changed her heart forever.
She felt love from the top of her head to her feet. She testifies of the power of Jesus changing hearts.
Melanie is reading from something she wrote about being a witness of God and choosing Jesus. "This is what came to me as I was writing and the spirit filled me soul. I knew that I was his and he has changed me forever."
Melanie then asks the listeners to hear her friends who have ad "powerful" spiritual experiences.
Thor is now speaking. He talks about experiences he has had with Heavenly Father and how Jesus Christ has changed his life. Thor says when he was 12, he grew up on an Indian Reservation "where everybody smoke and everybody drank."
He says everyone did it and that was part of his life. "Then as I became an alcoholic, I started falling into a lot of pitfalls."
Thor says Satan is real and his minions are here. Thor says he got to a point in his life where he didn't care if he lived or died. He planned out how he was going to end his life.
"Satan had always been around me but on the night I decided to end my life, there was with me saying, 'Just do it.'" In the courtroom, Lori is intently listening to the podcast.
Thor says he put a 12 gauge shotgun to his head and Heavenly Mother entered the room. Satan ran from the room and Heavenly Mother told Thor that she loved him. (Audio quality is not the best so it's hard to understand what is being said).
Thor says he learned he needed to love himself in order to give love to others.
Thor talks about his spirit going on for eternity. "I will have pure joy and no more Satan." He talks about signing up for this exact time and this exact mission. He says he wants to be part of the Lord's team and that Satan is here for opposition.
Thor is now crying while sharing his spiritual journey. "When the heavens are speaking to you, they are very clear, confident and loving," he says.
Thor says he can always feel when Satan is in the room because there is negative energy.
Thor talks about passing a different test every day and having empathy for others. "I love coming to events like this because you're able to take a little bit of everyone's journey." He wraps up his comments and says he will answer questions later on.
We now hear from Jason Mow. He talks about the Israelites and a gigantic wall at Jericho. "Joshua gathered the warriors of Israel together and said sanctify yourselves." Mow says we have been given a timeline by the prophet of God to sanctify ourselves.
Mow says he grew up in the church but was not a good Mormon. He went on a mission. He says after he got home from the mission, he joined the Army. He then became a police officer. He was wounded and says his wife left him.
"I was wounded, crippled, unemployed, broke and divorced." Mow says he clawed his way out of his situation because he refused to give up.
Mow says he went to God and was upset because he lost everything. "I went from being a SWAT guy to an invalid just like that." Mow said God answered his prayers and said, "I allowed you to survive all of that so you could do this now.
My job now is to help us become who we are destined to become."
Mow shares a quote from Winston Churchill. He is now quoting words from Pres. Russell Nelson, the president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Mow compares the youth in the church as modern-day "strippling warriors" and the parents need to prepare the youth for combat aginst Satan.
Mow tells listeners they need to be prepared to receive revelation from God and need to teach their children how to defend themselves again Satan. "Everything in this world has been designed to distract them from preparing the earth for the Second Coming.
Everyhting is designed to distract and destroy them. Stan has been preparing this battle space for 6,000 years."
*Satan
Mow says it's time to wake up and "when you feel the burning inside of you, that is the captain's call. That is the warrior. Accept who you are and move forward with faith."
Lori begins to speak on the podcast. Blake says, "Your honor, I'd like to renew our objection and ask to approach." Attorneys are now holding sidebar meetings as white noise plays.
Boyce back on the bench. He says he needs to review the audio before it's admitted. We will take an afternoon break while the judge listens. Be back shortly.
We are back in the courtroom. Lori just walked in smiling and is sitting with her attorneys. Waiting on Judge Boyce to enter.
Boyce is back on the bench. Archibald again states that by having the next portion of the audio played with Lori's voice we will understand more of what Todd heard when he listened to the podcast.
Prosecutors are adamantly against having the recording played based on the previous reasons mentioned.
Boyce says he has listened to the recording and it does not appear to be self-serving in nature. He says there is no mention of Joseph Ryan in the portion Boyce listened to.
Boyce says he has no issue with admitting the recording so the portion with Lori will be played for the jury.
Jurors are back in their seats and Archibald begins playing the podcast with Lori. Lori says "I am a witness of Jason Mow - to everything he says about what the prophet says and what the Lord is telling us...
My job, according to Jesus Christ, is to wake up the women warriors. I too have gone to the bottom edge...I too have seen the resurrected Jesus Christ and he has told me my mission and he has sent me to help people and lift them in their mission."
Lori says she was a normal person raised in southern California. She went to BYU and then things "turned really bad." She said the Lord then showed "me myself as a warrior. A WARRIOR.
I fought with Satan in the pre-existence. He showed this to me so I will quit crying in the temple. He showed me so I could be the warrior he sent me here to do."
Lori says things will start happening in the next two years and things will change. She says we prepare by turning ourselves completely over to Jesus Christ. She closes her comments and Melanie Gibb then asks if people have questions.
Lori says she prays and the Lord sends people to her - often in the temple. She says she went to the temple on a certain day and Angel Moroni had a message for her. "Jason Mow walked into the celestial room (room in the temple) and my friend said,
'That's that guy. He writes book about Moroni.'" Lori says the spirit was burning within her and she knew she had to talk to Mow.
Lori says the spirit told her to move to the couch in the celestial room and Mow walked past her before sitting down on the chairs next to her. "Someone sent him to the temple that day. I'm like hi, do you have a message for me from Moroni?"
Lori told Mow the Lord sent her to find like-minded women so Mow sent Melanie Gibb her information. "The minute I saw her I knew she would be one of the women I was supposed to be involved with."
"The Lord is building his army. He is calling people to do missions and they are to go forward in faith and this is what he tells you," Lori says. She says every day, God sends her women who need to be taught.
Archibald stops the recording at 39 minutes and 57 seconds. The total podcast is at least another hour but only this portion was submitted for evidence.
Archibald now back to questioning Todd Gilbert, Chad's neighbor and the man who listened to the podcast in November 2018.
Archibald asks if what we listened to on the podcast would be considered mainstream LDS beliefs. "Probably most of it but not all of it," Todd says. Todd says Chad was starting to stray in his beliefs.
Todd says Chad mentioned more than once that Tammy visited him and the kids in spirit form. Archibald asks Todd if he belives Chad. He said he wasn't sure because it hadn't happened to him before.
Archibald asks Todd if where you sit in church has an impact on your spirituality. Todd mentioned that the Daybells gradually moved from the front of the building to the back.Todd responds, "It seems like maybe they were trying to hide a little bit from the way they were before."
Archibald as nothing further. Blake now has some re-direct. She asks if the children of Melanie Gibb, Thor, or Jason Mow were found buried on Chad's property. Todd says no. Blake has no further questions.
Court is now over for the day. I’ll break it all down tonight on ‘Courtroom Insider.’
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