Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #56

[Colorado303]

I know. I wasn't trying to be argumentative or anything. Just pointing out that there is a lot of circumstantial evidence that seems pretty damning. People can be convicted on circumstantial evidence. I'm thinking of the recent example of Donthe Lucas - Kelsie's body was never found and they only ever had circumstantial evidence, and yet a jury was able to be convinced enough on the evidence presented (mostly digital) that they passed a guilty verdict of murder. I believe there is even more circumstantial evidence in this case.

I hope you are right. Tammy deserves justice too!

 

[Niner]

Monday, March 22nd:
*Motions Hearing for both (Remote) (@ 3pm MT) – ID – Joshua Jaxon (JJ) Vallow (7) & Tylee Ashlyn Ryan (16) (JJ last seen Sept. 23, 2019 & Tylee on Sept. 9, 2019, Rexburg; found June 9, 2019 buried in Daybell’s yard in Salem, ID) – *Chad Guy Daybell (51/now 52) arrested & charged (6/9/20) & arraigned (8/21/20) with 2 felony counts of destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence & concealing remains. Plead not guilty. $1M bond.
*Charged (7/1/20) & arraigned (8/21/20) with 2 felony counts of conspiracy to commit concealment, destruction or alteration of evidence. Plead not guilty. Bond stays at $1M.
Trial set to begin 7/12/21 thru 8/6/21.
Court info from 6/10/20 thru 3/1/21 reference post #286 here:
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #56
3/2/21: for Both: DA Wood filed Motion in Limine regarding excluding the Defendant's witness Andrea Tracy Schall from testifying at the hearing on defendant's Motion to Change Venue about the results of her "survey". DA wood filed Motion in Limine regarding excluding the defendant's witness, Columbo Investigations/Joe Adriany from testifying at the hearing on the defendant's Motion to change venue about the results of his "survey". DA Wood filed Motion to compel for Vallow to comply with the State's specific request for discovery & provide any reports prepared by defendant's expert witness Ironwood no later than 3/12/21. The Court heard (2/17/21) argument on the defendant's 1/8/21 Motion to compel & having considered the motion & objection orders as follows: Motion to compel is granted in part & denied in part. The Special Prosecutor will state whether he personally met with the following 24 witnesses or prospective witnesses. See link for names:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Order 030221.pdf
The request for sanctions is denied. Motion to remote testimony & motion to compel on 3/10/21. Motion to dismiss & motion for change of venue on 3/22/21.
3/4/21: Daybell: Motion: Objection to State's Motion in Limine re: Witness testimony to exclude a lay witness in the Motion to Change Venue. 3/6/21: Both: State's Brief in Support of the State's Motion in Limine/both defendants have supplied limited discovery or documentation to support their motions re "informal survey". 3/8/21: both: Specific Request of Discovery pursuant to Idaho Criminal Rule 16 for a list of names of "authorities" and "jailers", in relation to this statement by Keith Morrison.
3/8/21 Update: Attorneys, judge & court reporter met privately in different combinations & sessions. Judge returned & said what was addressed in those sessions is sealed. Some motions vacated. Court vacates today’s hearing, Daybell’s 3/10 motions hearing & motions hearing on 3/22/21 for both were vacated by Court. Next status conference hearing on 4/7/21.
3/11/21: Prosecutors filed on both: Motion for Ex Parte Protective Order-order to seal records. 3/17/21: Daybell: Notice vacating Motion to Dismiss filed by J. Prior. 3/18/21: Both: Motion Pro Hac Vice (legal term for adding an attorney to case in a jurisdiction in which he/she is not licenses to practice in such a way that the attorney does not commit unauthorized practice of law) filed by State. They want a death penalty qualified attorney to join their team. 3/19/21 Update: Notice of remote motions hearing on 3/22/21.
*Lori Norene Vallow aka Lori Norene Daybell (46/now 47) arrested (in Kauai, Hawaii) on 2/20/20 & charged (6/30/20) & arraigned (9/20/20) with 2 counts of conspiracy to commit destruction, alteration or concealment of evidence. Bond was set at $5M & reduced to $1M.
Trial set to begin on 7/12/21 thru 8/6/21.
Court info from 3/5/20 thru 3/1/21 reference post #286 here:
Found Deceased - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *Arrests* #56
3/2/21: for Both: DA Wood filed Motion in Limine regarding excluding the Defendant's witness Andrea Tracy Schall from testifying at the hearing on defendant's Motion to Change Venue about the results of her "survey". DA wood filed Motion in Limine regarding excluding the defendant's witness, Columbo Investigations/Joe Adriany from testifying at the hearing on the defendant's Motion to change venue about the results of his "survey". DA Wood filed Motion to compel for Vallow to comply with the State's specific request for discovery & provide any reports prepared by defendant's expert witness Ironwood no later than 3/12/21. The Court heard (2/17/21) argument on the defendant's 1/8/21 Motion to compel & having considered the motion & objection orders as follows: Motion to compel is granted in part & denied in part. The Special Prosecutor will state whether he personally met with the following 24 witnesses or prospective witnesses. See link for names:
https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Order 030221.pdf
The request for sanctions is denied. Motion to compel hearing on 3/8/21. Motion to dismiss hearing on 3/22/21.
3/4/21: Vallow: 2nd Notice of Service re: Disclosure of exhibits for Motion to transfer trial. 3/8/21: Defendant files subpoena for Heather Daybell, to appear for the motion hearing on 3/22/21. And both: Specific Request of Discovery pursuant to Idaho Criminal Rule 16 for a list of names of "authorities" and "jailers", in relation to this statement by Keith Morrison.
3/8/21 Update: Attorneys, judge & court reporter met privately in different combinations & sessions. Judge returned & said what was addressed in those sessions is sealed. Some motions vacated. Court vacates today’s hearing & motions hearing on 3/22/21. Next status conference hearing on 4/7/21.
3/11/21: Prosecution filed on both: Motion for Ex Parte Protective Order-order to seal records. 3/18/21: Both: Motion Pro Hac Vice (legal term for adding an attorney to case in a jurisdiction in which he/she is not licenses to practice in such a way that the attorney does not commit unauthorized practice of law) filed by State. They want a death penalty qualified attorney to join their team. 3/19/21 Update: Notice of remote motions hearing on 3/22/21.
Madison County: Pretrial conference hearing on 8/17/21 & trial set to begin on 8/30/21 (thru 9/3/21 @ 9am).

 

[dixiegirl1035]

RSBM If there’s a request for daily updates I’ll switch back.

All jmo moo imo

Request for daily updates!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Unless I missed something with who responded and what. I think it was more of a joke by implying that MM is there everyday and it would be simpler to let us know when he's not. Again, I'm not sure who said/didn't say something as I know I wasn't one but I think it was maybe taken out of context.

I made such a wisecrack awhile ago, but it was only intended to poke fun at MM's daily visiting habit. I'm sorry if it sounded as though I didn't appreciate the daily updates or the willingness of @SleuthD-o-doubleg to observe – because I do!

I feel awful as I believe I was the OP that made a joke and said that. My emoticon didn't give enough to let y'all know I was just pointing out with sarcasm how ridiculously often he was there vs. not there, and documented by our very own SleuthD (vs. the other way taken that I didn't want to see dailies)

So much to learn from dailies, e.g. MM and JP there the same day!

Apologies to the entire thread for my bad taste and humor affecting the flow of the thread, and especially to you @SleuthD-o-doubleg so sorry and so thankful for your dailies.

And you are correct Pizza, I REALLLY like the daily updates!

 

[indicolite22]

I actually think that this whole, "We are bringing in a "Special Prosecutor" is to save face for Wood. He screwed up.

Daybell attorneys ask for removal of Idaho prosecutor, allege misconduct

Scott Reisch, an experienced criminal defense attorney, found nothing objectionable in Wood's conduct (with SS) to begin with and definitely nothing that would warrant him being taken off the case.

IMO the prosecution is gearing up for murder charges, hence building a team. Wood is being advised by a PR firm with connections to the experienced Missouri prosecutor.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Hmmm. That is an interesting theory. Bailey probably was selected for his important job because he did not react to noises. JJ could have been bothered by the sound or have hardly seemed to hear it. I do not know, but someone who knew JJ might. Even if neither Bailey nor JJ support your theory, it does not mean your theory is not possible.

I do not think Bailey would "pass" his training if he were reactive to gun shots or other sudden loud noises. He was likely unfazed by the gunshot.

As for JJ and the gun shot, that is very JJ specific. My experience with autistic children is that they often have sensory differences, but the differences vary. Some over-react to various sensory input and some under-react. Some crave various kinds of sensory input and usually this is (in combination of not seeing the point of view of others, who might be making fun) what motivates behaviors that look strange. There might be a certain kind of sensation that each individual autistic person might over respond to, under-respond to, or crave.

It depends on JJ if the gun shot sound- apart from its meaning- would have been aversive, neutral or pleasant. If aversive, Bailey would have probably made it feel less aversive, if he was there. Some autistic kids can ignore a fire alarm, and would rather finish whatever they are doing than evacuate a building. Others run for the hills because of the sound of a fan in the distance that "hurts their ears" even when no one else noticed it.

It also depends on JJ's experience about what the gun shot means- separate from its sound. I don't think autism is a factor here. I do not think it is likely he did not know what a gun was, but I do think it was likely he had a young-white child-appropriate favorable view of guns. A gun shot may not have been as traumatic to him as it would be to me. I am old, and most of my life experience is in suburbs close to larger cities. When I hear a gun, I think homicide or police violence. But JJ probably associated guns with good guys and video games. JJ lived in areas where adults might have thought of guns as symbols of freedom, hunting or self-protection.

Unless JJ happened to be bothered by loud noises, the trauma of the morning was more likely the sudden change in plans. Suddenly changing his ride MAY have bothered him. However, Bailey (if he was there) and still stopping for his ritual breakfast would have helped ease the anxiety caused by the sudden change.

His school in AZ was private, right? I haven't seen references to Bailey attending. By the time he got to ID, Bailey was given back. I don't know anything about the school and if they were asked and declined to allow Bailey to attend, If Bailey was there, or if Bailey waited for JJ at home and the school was not asked.

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. Since Bailey did not return to the house with Lori and Tylee, he either was not there to begin with, was at the school with JJ, or dropped off at person or persons unknown. Just another loose end ignored by the Chandler PD. Perhaps some enterprising journalist will inquire at the school and Bailey's trainer to resolve the point.

Which reminds me of another issue: That house backs up to a large horse farm. I wonder if anyone was exercising a horse that morning and heard the shots.

 

[indicolite22]

Just to be clear, I personally think Chad killed Tammy beyond any reasonable doubt. I was equally convinced OJ killed Nicole and Casey killed her daughter though. It just takes one juror .......

BBM. I agree. The jury will have to decide based on the evidence presented, not their gut feeling or other information received out of court. Speculation: If Tammy's autopsy comes back negative or inconclusive and there isn't new direct or indirect evidence that her death was planned by Chad and/or Lori for that night, technically she could have still died on her own. Buying the rings and white clothing well in advance might not be as incriminating as booking the wedding venue before Tammy's death (we don't know if the latter happened). Yes, they could be convicted based on the many pieces of circumstantial evidence, but there's no guarantee as long as there are other viable scenarios still compatible with their actions.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Local update: MM was at the women’s detention center everyday this week. But what’s noteworthy is Wednesday JP was also there with him. Also, still have quiet a bit of ribbons left up from last year when they were hung up in town.

Moved to just a weekly update because a couple people felt my updates were a lot. No hard feelings from me, just hope to keep everyone in the loop of what’s happening in town. If there’s a request for daily updates I’ll switch back.

All jmo moo imo

SleuthD... I am just waiting for you to walk into the jail for us.... reality.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Thank you very much for taking the time to answer. Since Bailey did not return to the house with Lori and Tylee, he either was not there to begin with, was at the school with JJ, or dropped off at person or persons unknown. Just another loose end ignored by the Chandler PD. Perhaps some enterprising journalist will inquire at the school and Bailey's trainer to resolve the point.

Which reminds me of another issue: That house backs up to a large horse farm. I wonder if anyone was exercising a horse that morning and heard the shots.

I had never thought of where was Bailey at that time. Thanks for the tickler on such.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

BBM. I agree. The jury will have to decide based on the evidence presented, not their gut feeling or other information received out of court. Speculation: If Tammy's autopsy comes back negative or inconclusive and there isn't new direct or indirect evidence that her death was planned by Chad and/or Lori for that night, technically she could have still died on her own. Buying the rings and white clothing well in advance might not be as incriminating as booking the wedding venue before Tammy's death (we don't know if the latter happened). Yes, they could be convicted based on the many pieces of circumstantial evidence, but there's no guarantee as long as there are other viable scenarios still compatible with their actions.

Yet, will that be too prejudicial re rings etc. to come in to any murder trial or ?? trial? That is to be seen. MOO I think this may be why Woods wants a more experienced person who has been in the weeds iykwim

 

[indicolite22]

Yet, will that be too prejudicial re rings etc. to come in to any murder trial or ?? trial? That is to be seen. MOO I think this may be why Woods wants a more experienced person who has been in the weeds iykwim

Yes. Some of the evidence could be deemed irrelevant to a particular case or inadmissible in court. Defense could argue that the cheap rings weren't bought with a wedding in mind.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

I feel awful as I believe I was the OP that made a joke and said that. My emoticon didn't give enough to let y'all know I was just pointing out with sarcasm how ridiculously often he was there vs. not there, and documented by our very own SleuthD (vs. the other way taken that I didn't want to see dailies)

So much to learn from dailies, e.g. MM and JP there the same day!

Apologies to the entire thread for my bad taste and humor affecting the flow of the thread, and especially to you @SleuthD-o-doubleg so sorry and so thankful for your dailies.

And you are correct Pizza, I REALLLY like the daily updates!

Honestly no hard feelings from me! I appreciate all your insights.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

SleuthD... I am just waiting for you to walk into the jail for us.... reality.

Haha I don’t know I’d get very far since they are only allowing clergy or lawyers in right now.

All jmo moo imo

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Yes. Some of the evidence could be deemed irrelevant to a particular case or inadmissible in court. Defense could argue that the cheap rings weren't bought with a wedding in mind.

“Coincidentally” all the items from that whole order showed up at the wedding ceremony. So it seems like there is no justification to be made.

All jmo moo imo

 

[mickey2942]

Usually children with Special needs who have service animals do not bring their dogs to school. It can be disruptive for the dog, as children in Special Education don't understand "Service Dog Etiquette", ie, dog is not there to be petted or played with.

Also, JJ was probably not able to be fully responsible for the care of the dog. Teachers and paras take care of kids, not their service animals.

Not sure about JJ's particular school, but this is pretty standard procedure for kids in Special Education, under age 14. Over age 14, it depends on the circumstances and the IEP team.

 

[indicolite22]

“Coincidentally” all the items from that whole order showed up at the wedding ceremony. So it seems like there is no justification to be made.

All jmo moo imo

Do we know if all of the items, not only the rings, were bought on the same day (Oct 2)? I had the impression that there were multiple purchases. In the video below (from March 2020), Kay claims that Lori was searching online for beach wedding dresses and white clothes for a man, but also other items like swimwear. IMO it's not clear when she bought those. Any search terms with wedding in them could be incriminating, indicating that she was planning for more than a secret holiday with Chad.

Interestingly they bought the rings on the day of the failed murder attempt on BB. Alex wasn't even back from Arizona yet. It seems like there was no stopping them in their plans.

 

[SleuthD-o-doubleg]

Do we know if all of the items, not only the rings, were bought on the same day (Oct 2)? I had the impression that there were multiple purchases. In the video below (from March 2020), Kay claims that Lori was searching online for beach wedding dresses and white clothes for a man, but also other items like swimwear. IMO it's not clear when she bought those. Any search terms with wedding in them could be incriminating, indicating that she was planning for more than a secret holiday with Chad.

Interestingly they bought the rings on the day of the failed murder attempt on BB. Alex wasn't even back from Arizona yet. It seems like there was no stopping them in their plans.

You’re right. I got the order details mixed up. Still odd to have ordered and searched for al of these things within days of Tammy’s death. What an Amazon order reveals about Lori Daybell's wedding ring - East Idaho News

 

[Onsdag]

Do we know if all of the items, not only the rings, were bought on the same day (Oct 2)? I had the impression that there were multiple purchases. In the video below (from March 2020), Kay claims that Lori was searching online for beach wedding dresses and white clothes for a man, but also other items like swimwear. IMO it's not clear when she bought those. Any search terms with wedding in them could be incriminating, indicating that she was planning for more than a secret holiday with Chad.

Interestingly they bought the rings on the day of the failed murder attempt on BB. Alex wasn't even back from Arizona yet. It seems like there was no stopping them in their plans.

Thanks! I had gotten the details slightly wrong and thought she had bought matching rings for the both of them, but it appears she only bought the one ring for herself. Still, as Kay rightly points out, "it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that that was premeditation."

 

[indicolite22]

Thanks! I had gotten the details slightly wrong and thought she had bought matching rings for the both of them, but it appears she only bought the one ring for herself. Still, as Kay rightly points out, "it doesn't take Einstein to figure out that that was premeditation."

Good point. I also forgot that only Lori's ring was mentioned at the time (along with an Amazon screenshot of its order/delivery). It is mentioned in the article below (from March 2020) that wedding dresses were being searched for the following day, October 3.

Screenshot published in the article could indicate that Lori's ring was purchased separately (total is for 1 item):

What an Amazon order reveals about Lori Daybell's wedding ring - East Idaho News

This is from a recent article on the ABC special on the case (BBM):

The account's purchase history showed that two wedding rings had been recently shipped to Lori Vallow.

A string of family deaths surround tragedy of Lori Vallow’s children

 

[DI_Isokawa]

Usually children with Special needs who have service animals do not bring their dogs to school. It can be disruptive for the dog, as children in Special Education don't understand "Service Dog Etiquette", ie, dog is not there to be petted or played with.

Also, JJ was probably not able to be fully responsible for the care of the dog. Teachers and paras take care of kids, not their service animals.

Not sure about JJ's particular school, but this is pretty standard procedure for kids in Special Education, under age 14. Over age 14, it depends on the circumstances and the IEP team.

Definitely makes sense. So then the question is: Who was looking after Bailey that day?