Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 16, Tammy Daybell, 49, Sept & Oct 2019 *Arrests* #58

[Sheila Terranova]

I totally agree. At the very least, I think that LVD has had at a serious personality disorder for all of her adult life. Her oldest child, Colby, recounted in a interview with Keith Morrison, how when he was young and it was just the two of them, life was constant chaos. The thing he loved most about CV was the stability and calm he brought to family life. On her own she lurches from crisis to crisis. Reports on her jail activities include reading and rereading CDs books and the Book of Mormon, singing, dancing (this reminds me that she had Chad create a room for her to dance alone in. Also isn't it hard to dance in a jail cell?),writing to Chad, (Can they write to each other? I know once they are convicted authorities can cut off contact, but I don't about pre trial). I am guessing she has just gone into her head. Who knows what all that crazy disordered thinking can do to a brain when it has no outlet? It was devastating enough when she was out in the world creating chaos.

Sociopaths are chaotic. Thrive on high risk. Can not tolerate boredom.

 

[Tortoise]

I wonder if Chad will also be considered for conspiracy to murder Charles Vallow. He was responsible for all the dark ratings and determining when someone became a zombie, at least on paper. We don't know what agreements they had already reached between them, especially with JJ. In JJ's case Lori had already got rid of his service dog, and his loving sister Tylee, moved him from his familiar school teachers and friends, and stopped his meds before the call from Chad, so she would know his behavior would deteriorate.

 

[Tortoise]

I don't understand why the judge woudn't allow Kay and Larry and Colby to join the zoom call for the hearing. I would have thought they had a right to join as they would have if it was being conducted in open court. If Lori wasn't fit to see the public she shouldn't have been present with MM on the call, IMO. Why was she even there if she wasn't comprehending the proceedings? The state hadn't yet objected to the continuance on the record but the judge didn't elicit any more information from them during the hearing so I think it was already certain that he would be ordering a continuance.

MOO

 

[SwiftTiff]

It’s crushing to me that IRL no one really mentions Tylee and the tragedy of her life being lost. She was a good at taking care of JJ. I do be JR was murdered as well. So there’s not a lot of voices to make sure the loss of her life.
I’ve always wondered since we found out she drove herself alone to Texas and back why and when did she do that? She was close to be an adult . She stood in the way and would’ve been a voice to tell what really happened with CV but also how would it look for Lori if her child went away and had absolutely nothing to do with her anymore ? It'd impact LVD image without a doubt.

Honestly I’m scared bc it has to be without a shadow of a doubt. They are undoubtedly going to blame Alex as much as possible. I think Alex only did what LV told him to long before CD came a long. I think he took out JR and CV on Loris instructions without a shadow of a doubt . I think the reason he was married so quickly and got meds or whatever was again instructions from LVD and CD with the thought process of it’d save Lori from looking or being charged bc he’d so anything for her. I think he was lonely and it’s his sister reaching out so he’d be her henchmen. He offer busted sister when she needed him to “help” her. Unless The timeline is changed and she followed and knew of CD before we know it.

CD I assume used that crappy line on a lot of women telling them they were married in a past life. I believe he had attempted a lot of affairs with that ridiculous notion. They seem to have that all of the place including M who last saw JJ and her boyfriend who very much still married. It’s weird a bit to me that M was on Lori about being all over town with CD when he was still married at that point or TD was still alive.

Lori is a mess. I think she’s always been a mess . Why did her family not really have anything to do with her or Alex? That’s odd. They didn’t know Tylee or JJ . The only person that Tylee had living was Colby.

Why did limp D introduce Lori describing her as an “empty nester”?
There’s so much in this. It’s messy and horrible. I felt such relief when they laid the murder charges on all 3 . I knew they would eventually. I’m certain Chad we get his. Here on earth for sure. Maybe once he’s in prison for multiple life sentences he will again meet another past spouse named Chad and that will end his searching. CD was this worth it? Killing two kids, killing your wife who absolutely loved you and wanting to be with you, your own children at some point will wake up and see everything you’ve done. You killed their mother for life insurance and with a plan the entire time to kill that blondes children. If you really do believe there’s a high power like God you need to repent with the truth but I bugle doubt that day will come.bc you’re a loser who never does the right thing. Jump in your machine to talk to LVD. Also if that machine is real why does your Attorney Always have to drive to see you? Strange . You got what you wanted so far not being tried together.

 

[indicolite22]

Honestly I’m scared bc it has to be without a shadow of a doubt. They are undoubtedly going to blame Alex as much as possible. I think Alex only did what LV told him to long before CD came a long. I think he took out JR and CV on Loris instructions without a shadow of a doubt . I think the reason he was married so quickly and got meds or whatever was again instructions from LVD and CD with the thought process of it’d save Lori from looking or being charged bc he’d so anything for her. I think he was lonely and it’s his sister reaching out so he’d be her henchmen. He offer busted sister when she needed him to “help” her. Unless The timeline is changed and she followed and knew of CD before we know it.

We now know that Alex was a true believer in their cause. If you take religious beliefs out of the equation for a minute, one can understand how Lori could have justified murdering Charles (or even Joe) to him. In his eyes they were bad people who were causing grief to his sister. But I can't see any other justification to Alex, apart from the religious one, for Tylee's and JJ's murders. Yes, Lori stood to profit from their deaths financially. I'm not sure if Alex would be prepared to kill children for that reason. Brandon's case could be treated similar to Charles' (telling lies about him), but you couldn't claim that Tammy was a bad person. If at least some of those people were deemed zombies at the last minute, which would justify (to them) religious killings, how far in advance did they include Alex in the conspiracy so he didn't suspect it was simply murder?

 

[squareandrabbet]

The thing I find frustrating about these comments "death would be an option before giving Tylee to her father" and "better to drive the kids off a cliff" is that they aren't clear, to me. She doesn't say whose death, do we presume it to be Joe's? Or Tylee's? I don't think, if someone proposed that Tylee be given to her dad she said "death would be an option before that happens" , especially without the interviewer asking whose death she means, so it needs more clarity. She mentions the kids going off a cliff in a car, but doesn't say drive 'us all' off a cliff. She might have had in mind drugging the kids and releasing the handbrake. Afterall, we know she revelled in the thought of the 'end times' and gathering mates to survive it with, and I've seen no evidence that she had the mindset of such devotion to her kids that she wanted to die with them. I would want to know if I was evaluating her, if either of these original statements in their absolutely accurate forms, showed a propensity for murder. That's what she was hinting at when she talked about Nephi and the scriptures in relation to Joe, around the time she met MG.

MOO

does it really matter if she intended to go with them, though? Dead is dead, and it is her willingness to kill the children being considered. Now, if there was a scenario where she was evaluating killing herself and leaving the kids alive, maybe it would make a difference; but we know she didn’t mean that in the former instance because killing her self to save Tylee from Joe, almost assuredly has the opposite effect as Joe would then have unfettered access to Tylee. Either scenario, the children are killed. JMO.

 

[Tortoise]

does it really matter if she intended to go with them, though? Dead is dead, and it is her willingness to kill the children being considered. Now, if there was a scenario where she was evaluating killing herself and leaving the kids alive, maybe it would make a difference; but we know she didn’t mean that in the former instance because killing her self to save Tylee from Joe, almost assuredly has the opposite effect as Joe would then have unfettered access to Tylee. Either scenario, the children are killed. JMO.

We don't know if she meant killing Tylee to stop Joe having her, or killing Joe, or even killing the judge, who knows.

I think it absolutely matters in a psychological evaluation to know if she envisioned dying too, because there is a world of difference between (disordered) thinking that one believes one is rescuing children from a worse situation like the world ending, and being prepared to die with them, and having a plan to enjoy life without them and experience the feeling of power over people she despises.

MOO

 

[watergirl62]

Plus the friend (I think April?) who said Lori started talking out loud about it "maybe" being better to drive the kids off a cliff so they could avoid the end of the world.

These are pretty clear statements, and even show a pattern.

I checked the dates once. She told April that a few months after the Hart family drove off the cliff. It got so much media attention. Hmmm.

CA - Hannah, 16, Devonte, 15, & Sierra Hart, 12, Mendocino County, 26 March 2018 #1

 

[watergirl62]

I don't understand why the judge woudn't allow Kay and Larry and Colby to join the zoom call for the hearing. I would have thought they had a right to join as they would have if it was being conducted in open court. If Lori wasn't fit to see the public she shouldn't have been present with MM on the call, IMO. Why was she even there if she wasn't comprehending the proceedings? The state hadn't yet objected to the continuance on the record but the judge didn't elicit any more information from them during the hearing so I think it was already certain that he would be ordering a continuance.

MOO

Maybe the judge thought that given LV's state of mind, it would be best not to let the person who is still alive that she wants dead more than anyone else to appear in the meeting. My take.

 

[indicolite22]

Do we know when they started calling people zombies in addition to being possessed by evil spirits with strange names? MG mentioned in an interview that the term wasn't used until after Lori accused Charles of being Nick Schneider.

When did Lori call Tylee a zombie for not wanting to babysit JJ and Tylee responded with "Not me, mom."? To me that exchange indicates that Tylee knew that people they didn't like were labeled zombies (or maybe it was just about Charles). Did she also know what happened to zombies within the context of Chad's cult?

Trying to determine their levels of premeditation, I wonder when Tylee was actually declared a zombie by Chad and Lori (or presumably Chad first)? I can't imagine Lori and Alex thinking in those terms about her while interacting with her for a prolonged period. IMO Tylee would have noticed that something was off.

 

[kshultz06082]

The new Grand jury Indictment I have for Chad and Lori both at... https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22211623/Indictment.pdf

Their affidavits from last year for the original charges may be found in the media thread, I don't have it bookmarked any longer (indictments replace affidavits for the new charges, so you won't find such for the new charges)

ETA: From last year.... Here is Lori's criminal complaint https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Amended Criminal Complaint.pdf and also https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-838/Affidavit of Probable Cause.pdf

https://coi.isc.idaho.gov/docs/case/CR22-20-755/Amended Criminal Complaint.pdf is Chad

Is this all you were looking for? If you need more, do a "search" with the key word affidavit in the first media thread and there are more documents at the judicial site you may find.

Thank you! I didn't realize the indictment was instead of an arrest affidavit. I was hoping to see something that showed some of the evidence like we saw with Leticia Stauch and are waiting on for Barry Morphew. I am going to re-read the probable cause affidavits tho. Thank you again

 

[kshultz06082]

I wonder if the reason Means is at the detention center all the time is so that Lori has someone to talk to. If she is being held in protective custody and alone the majority of the time, as an extrovert, that could do crazy things to her mind. Assuming that its LVD he is spending all that time with it kind of makes sense that he would be there more as a paid friend rather than her attorney. However, if she is in general population and has the ability to socialize with other inmates, but is still incompetent to assist in her own defense, then I can't figure out what he is doing there. I can understand how a year and a half of solitude can effect someone's mental health. I am in no way defending her, just speculating on what could be causing her to decompensate to this level. As an extrovert myself, I can say that lack of socialization due to the pandemic has effected my already fragile mental health and I imagine it has done the same for many other people. BUT, at no time during the pandemic or the worst days of my mental health have I ever considered it ok to hurt/kill other people and at no time have I been in a headspace that would allow me to act the way she does. I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the entire world has been in lockdown and solitude for over a year now and I guess I don't understand how it has effected her so badly but I think Means is there so often to give her time out of her cell and make her feel less alone. Jmo and speculation.

 

[Inthedetails]

This level of testing is usually the wheelhouse of psychologists, and I am not a psychologist, but my best guess is that it’s not standardized to have someone else in the room. There are specific rules about how to state a question and how many time you can repeat it (much less, non verbal cues from someone else in the room). It’s possible though he could observe through a one way mirror?? Basically, it is important to keep in mind the courts goal of having her “competent to stand trial” including “participate in her own defense”. The goal is not making her free from psychiatric symptoms or resolving a delusional disorder. The bar to competency is pretty low. Basically, you have to understand the charges against you and the consequences of the choices available. You can believe you were abducted by aliens; but if you understand that you are accused of shoplifting and you understand what shoplifting is, the possible sentencing, plea deals, defense strategies (I paid…I was at home) you are competent to stand trial. No need to re-do any standardized test.

Super helpful - thank you!
jmo

 

[April_Dawn99]

Interview Justin Lum did with Zac Cox, Adam’s boy. I’ve not had time to listen to it yet.

Zac provides such an invaluable insight from the point of view of an insider! And confirms a lot of what we discussed many many threads before based on the limited information we had at that time (good job we did )

You have got to watch this li e stream tonight

They were talking about receiving information (not confirmed at this point) that Lori had schizophrenia.

And this video provides answers by professional forensic psychologist Dr. John Matthias and attorney Lori Hellis to many of our questions about LV's mental health that we are raising now (re faking, psychologist/psychiatrist involvement, thin line between religious fanaticism and insanity etc). If you missed this, highly recommended!
ETA: Just wanted to stress the informative value of these 2 videos, thanks for posting these

 

[wenwe4]

I keep wondering about whether LVD actually wanted to be declared incompetent. It just doesn't "jive" with her narcissistic traits displayed over her lifetime. If anything I think she would want to avoid any appearance of having a "flaw". Also in her family IIRC her own father (despite allegations of being diagnosed schizophrenic) did not want to comply with paying taxes, fighting legal arguments with pseudo-legal language looking documents, etc. In addition to all of the custody court orders, allegations, and contempt orders with Tylee's dad, this suggests to me a pattern of "digging in" or standing their ground no matter the law, reasonable negotiations, or even court orders. I am suspecting that LVD has been immersing herself into CD's books, revelations, scriptures and song while in semi-isolation. I am wondering if she would not comply with the competency eval (as suggested upthread) and continues with the "I am a Goddess of 144K, I cannot die, etc." If she cannot be appropriately assessed then it would need to come to the court's attention, and furthermore it would request that further treatment and/or evals are needed to know if she meets the very low requirements for the purposes of the court.
Can someone tell me how she got CD's books in jail? I just cannot imagine those being on the "community library cart" and that she had to have been sent those by a friend or family member. Any thoughts?

 

[887sMtreme]

And this video provides answers by professional forensic psychologist Dr. John Matthias and attorney Lori Hellis to many of our questions about LV's mental health that we are raising now (re faking, psychologist/psychiatrist involvement, thin line between religious fanaticism and insanity etc). If you missed this, highly recommended!
ETA: Just wanted to stress the informative value of these 2 videos, thanks for posting these

This was informative and really interesting. I had forgotten the term “malingering,” and think, like Lori Hellis, that this is what LVD is up to. Either that, or she is just flat-out performing nonstop with her scripture readings, singing, dancing and so on, claiming to be a goddess. It must be hell in that detention center for other inmates and staff if she is continuing that behavior every day. Where did the Daybell books come from? Who know if she still has them? Originally, they may have been among the items she was permitted to bring into detention with the clothes on her back. Can someone confirm if this is allowed in the Rexburg facility?

 

[887sMtreme]

Snipped for focus

The thing I find frustrating about these comments "death would be an option before giving Tylee to her father" and "better to drive the kids off a cliff" is that they aren't clear, to me. She doesn't say whose death, do we presume it to be Joe's? Or Tylee's?
MOO

This has bothered me from the first time I read that comment. Was Lori talking about suicide, homicide, or infanticide? (Did he even know? If not, did he ask in order to narrow it down?) In either case, this was the biggest Red Flag Moment in this whole saga. But that’s “blood over the dam,” as my overly dramatic mother used to say about irreversible gruesome events. I would not want to be the one left holding that flag today.

 

[887sMtreme]

Regarding the degree to which CD and LVD actually believed their End Times story/stories, the only suggestion of preparation we have is Chad showing some property to DW, with the suggestion it would be part of the Tent City of their visions. Or at least that’s how I interpreted it. Maybe it was garden-variety real estate talk. But did they ever even go shopping for tents? Lay in supplies at all? I know PAP and AVOW were into that level of prepping, but I don’t thing the Daybells were, were they? Enquiring minds....

 

[dixiegirl1035]

...

I keep wondering about whether LVD actually wanted to be declared incompetent. It just doesn't "jive" with her narcissistic traits displayed over her lifetime. If anything I think she would want to avoid any appearance of having a "flaw". Also in her family IIRC her own father (despite allegations of being diagnosed schizophrenic) did not want to comply with paying taxes, fighting legal arguments with pseudo-legal language looking documents, etc. In addition to all of the custody court orders, allegations, and contempt orders with Tylee's dad, this suggests to me a pattern of "digging in" or standing their ground no matter the law, reasonable negotiations, or even court orders. I am suspecting that LVD has been immersing herself into CD's books, revelations, scriptures and song while in semi-isolation. I am wondering if she would not comply with the competency eval (as suggested upthread) and continues with the "I am a Goddess of 144K, I cannot die, etc." If she cannot be appropriately assessed then it would need to come to the court's attention, and furthermore it would request that further treatment and/or evals are needed to know if she meets the very low requirements for the purposes of the court.
Can someone tell me how she got CD's books in jail? I just cannot imagine those being on the "community library cart" and that she had to have been sent those by a friend or family member. Any thoughts?

Keep in Mind that Alyce LaViolette's and her Snow White Defense books were given to Jodi... by her when in the jail! (aka, how to feign MOO)... IYKWIM

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I think this is Lori's response to being cast off by Chad, both financially and probably from the team they once were, because he's going to do everything to save his own hide now. I think that's why she was insisting on being called Daybell, to send a last desperate message to him, like remember who we are, let's stick together. IMO she has virtually no one left now from the pool she's used to drawing from, even her sister SS was recorded saying to RW that Lori was lying. It's been a long drop from up high, when she strutted through the court with her nose six feet in the air, and there was no plan B, she's used to having people believe her lies. Incompetence didn't hit, reality did, and responsibility is not in her repertoire. Incompetence to Lori is having no plan to win.

MOO

Tortoise, I have missed statements from SS that Lori was lying..,.
Can you provide article or source???