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Day 4 of testimony for Lori Vallow trial: Source tells me key witness Melanie Gibb is in the building.
Lori Vallow is wearing a gray blazer, speaking to Jim Archibald. He nods his head. Lindsey Blake is here today and walked over to the defense to talk
The last time Lori and Melanie have seen each other was in 2019.
Lori is looking down at the desk in front of her, most likely notes. Our view is from behind her, 12-15 feet away
Lindsey Blake calls on Melanie Gibb to take the stand!
Vallow stares at Gibb taking her oath inside the courtroom. Gibb is wearing a black top and white skirt with black boots. She wears her glasses and is now seated
Lori turns towards her from her seat. She is fully focused on Gibb
Gibb confirms to Judge Boyce that she has not observed any of this trial
Blake: How do you know Lori Vallow? MG: I met her at a church event in September of 2018
Blake asks about how Gibb knows Chad Daybell and how she introduced him to Lori Vallow
Blake: Have you met Tylee Ryan? MG: Yes, at Lori’s house
Blake is confirming that Gibb knows Tylee and JJ. She asks Gibb about interactions between Lori and her kids. MG: Lori was very affectionate to JJ. Sometimes as time went on, he seemed a little frustrated and Lori seemed distracted a lot
As time went on, Gibb says Lori Vallow became busy with other things, more distracted
How often did Melanie and Lori hang out? Sometimes daily, she says. This activity went on from January 2019 until Lori moved to Idaho in Fall of 2019.
Gibb is describing Vallow’s movement from AZ to Hawaii back to AZ, TX and then to AZ. This happened from January-July, Gibb says Vallow moved several times. She stayed in contact with her, inconsistently yet often
Blake asks about a trip MG and LV took to Utah. The group consisted of about 5-6 women. MG can’t recall their names. The destination was St. George, UT for a conference
This sets the scene for the Preparing a People conference in Oct 2018 when Chad and Lori meet on a weekend
Blake asks Chad was there for the entirety. She says Friday and Saturday, same as Lori and Melanie
Melanie observed the two and says they were very friendly, interactive and talked about their ideas and beliefs
“There was an attraction from the beginning.” - MG
Gibb: She (Lori) seemed flattered by him and enticed by him, “flirty like.”
Blake: Have you ever read any of Chad’s books? MG: I have. Blake: And Lori? MG: She had read some.
Blake asks if Gibb recalls anything about the two of them. Gibb says Chad told Lori he believed they had been married in multiple past lives. John Thomas objects to this statement. Judge overrules, Blake says this is a statement of an alleged co-conspirator
Blake to Gibb: Did you ever speak to Chad about first time he met Lori? Gibb: Most likely, don’t recall much. Blake: But what about speaking with Lori about this? Gibb: She shared with me that he told her that they had been married in another time period
Gibb says Lori believed this and had already believed in living multiple lives before she ever met Chad Daybell
Gibb says that Lori Vallow believed she had been married to a prophet named Moroni
Blake asks about post-conference and if Gibb stayed in touch with Daybell. She did periodically. Gibb stayed in contact with Lori much more and learned that LV and CD talked consistently.
Blake confirms with Gibb that Lori was married at the time to Charles Vallow and that Chad was married to Tammy Daybell, both spouses still alive at the time.
Blake on “multiple probations”: When did you first learn that term? Gibb: When I first started hanging out with Lori, it was introduced to me.
But Gibb says Chad knew about this idea a lot more than Lori. I see Lori turn to John Thomas and shake her head. She’s taking notes.
Gibb on the alleged beliefs of LV&CD: in this earth you can come back multiple times but it’s different for everybody.
Another event in November of 2018 happens in Mesa, for another conference. Lori Vallow hosts a gathering in light of this event.
After the conference, Gibb says Chad stayed at Lori’s house overnight while Charles Vallow was out of town.
Blake: Do you remember Lori talking about her relationship with Chad again? Gibb: She said they were married about 5 times in different lives.
Gibb recalls that weekend in AZ, Lori told her that she and Chad and met up in the LDS temple, specifically in a waiting room and that Moroni, and possibly Jesus Christ was there. Gibb says Vallow told her that she and Chad were “sealed”together.
Being “sealed” means you and a partner and together for eternity, according to Gibb who explains to Lindsey Blake.
A special mission on earth: Gibb says Vallow felt she and Chad Daybell were leaders of the 144,000.
The 144,000 is referenced to the Bible, people who would do missionary work during the second coming of Christ. Blake asks if being the head of the 144,000 is a significant role. Gibb says yes.
Gibb names some people who were apart of the main group attached to Lori: Zulema Pastenes Melani Pawlowski Alex Cox
Blake clarifies that Lori believed she was the head of 144K after meeting Chad. Yes, Melanie says, and this happened within a few weeks after the two met.
Light and dark spirits: Gibb explains that those who sign contracts with the “savior” are light and those who sign contracts with “Satan” are dark.
On the light and dark scale: Gibb confirms Lori taught her this and that Lori taught it to others. The teachings evolved over time.
What else did Lori allegedly teach? Gibb says the teachings changed often. Blake asks if someone could switch from light to dark or dark to light? Gibb says she believes so.
Blake asks if Brandon Boudreaux was apart of this inner circle. Gibb says no.
One juror stared briefly at Lori with his eyes wide open before looking back to Gibb. This is a lot for this jury to absorb I’d assume.
Blake asks Gibb if LV shared anything about someone being possessed. Gibb recalls being at her house in January of 2019 and says Lori came inside from the backyard, telling Gibb that Chad believed Charles was now a dark spirit.
Blake asks MG about a dream Lori allegedly had: Gibb says Lori told her she saw Charles and JJ had been in a car accident in this dream and that they would not come home by January 31st 2019.
But Charles did not get into an accident. Gibb says she talked to Lori about this and asked what happened? She said Lori told her Satan interfered with “the plan.”
Blake clarifies that because Charles was “dark” he needed to pass away. Gibb confirms. Blake wants to know about casting spirits out. Gibb recalls Lori having a prayer, reading scriptures calling the spirit to come out by the spirit of God.
Was Charles the first person Lori called “dark”? Gibb says yes. Who was present for this casting? Gibb says it was Lori and her friends Zulema, Christina, Sarena and Melanie.
“Convince the spirit to leave the body.” Gibb tells Blake how Lori Vallow explained that the original spirit of someone was stuck between this world and the spirit world, either on the other side or moved on.
To give you more insight, Charles Vallow’s son is watching from the gallery hearing about his father called a dark spirit. He’s sitting feet away from his former stepmom.
Names used for Charles Vallow’s dark spirits. Ned, Garrett and Hiplos. When one spirit was cast out, the next “dark spirit” came in, per Gibb.
Blake asks if Lori was present for all the castings Melanie Gibb was at. She says yes. As for Chad, she recalls him at one casting after Charles was dead.
After Charles was shot and killed, castings began for Brandon Boudreaux says Gibb. She tells Blake that Boudreaux was part of Hitler’s regime in a last life.
Blake asks who else was considered dark? Charles, Brandon, Adam Cox, Lori’s dad, Tylee Ryan, Kay Woodcock. How about Tammy Daybell? Gibb says if she was considered dark, it was before she died.
Blake asks if a dark spirit entered Tylee according to Lori. Gibb says yes, she thinks when Lori was living in Texas in April or May of 2019.
As for JJ, Gibb believes that in September of 2019, she heard from Lori that the boy was possessed.
Blake asks about what Lori told Gibb about Tammy possibly passing away. Gibb says Lori believed Tammy Daybell would pass away early in life.
Gibb stayed at Lori’s house in July of 2019 on the 9th or 10th. This is before Charles Vallow was killed.
On the Charles Vallow fatal shooting: Gibb recalls how Lori told her about an argument in the house, a heated conversation over Charles’ phone and that Tylee got involved holding a bat before Alex Cox shot Charles.
Cox was Lori’s brother and considered her protector. We’ve covered this shooting extensively. He claimed Charles hit him in the head with Tylee’s bat before Alex shot him in self defense.
To clarify, Melanie Gibb was not there. Blake asks where JJ was during the shooting. Gibb says she thinks he was outside waiting in the car. But she doesn’t recall much.
Lori is staring at Gibb. She appears to have her arms crossed or on the table.
Blake: Prior to Charles’ death, did Lori and Chad stay in contact? Gibb says they did and talked multiple times a day. She says Lori had at least two cell phones, maybe three. “She had one phone just for Chad.”
Would Chad and Lori meet up when Charles was alive? Gibb says they did. She recalls one time when Lori met with Chad at a hotel or went to temples together.
Gibb gives a lot of information but I’ve heard her use “I don’t recall” or “I don’t remember”
Gibb says Lori did indicate that she and Chad were intimate. Blake asks if Lori thought this was okay. Gibb says Lori believed it was in God’s will and that because Lori and Chad were married in a past life, this was okay.
Gibb on JJ: Right before he was killed, Lori indicated that he was difficult to handle. It was hard for her to do that and be with Chad.
“She indicated that she was going to ask Kay if she could watch him from now on.” - Gibb Kay is JJ’s biological grandma if you don’t know the case.
On Lori moving to Idaho: Gibb says this happened in maybe August 2019. Who moved? Lori, Tylee, JJ and Alex.
Gibb stayed in contact with Lori even when she got to Idaho and moved in. She heard Tylee in the background over the phone. But had never seen Tylee since before the family left Chandler.
Blake is asking about Melanie’s visit to Lori in Rexburg. This was in September of 2019. Melanie brought her boyfriend David Warwick and they stayed at Lori’s.
Gibb says she did not see Tylee. She asked about her and says Lori told her Tylee was at BYU Idaho with friends.
Blake asks if Lori made a reference to Tylee. Gibb says Lori didn’t talk about her much and put her stuff in storage.
Melanie saw JJ at the home. She says Lori told her about JJ had an evil spirit in him.
Blake: did she indicate what she made observations of JJ? Gibb: Lori said JJ had become more difficult, his speech was more intelligent and that he said “I love Satan.” Gibb says Lori told her JJ would climb up on the fridge and was changing.
Blake asks Gibb about her observations of JJ. She said he was a typical 7-year-old kid. Blake asks if she has experience with kids who have autism. She says somewhat.
One day, Gibb noticed JJ was having a tough time, acting out and Chad took him up to the bedroom. She says Chad came in and out of Lori’s townhome during that visit.
On when Chad took JJ upstairs: Gibb says they eventually came down and she asked Chad why his neck was red. Chad told her JJ scratched his neck.
On the interaction between Lori and Chad: They were affectionate, sang and dance according to Gibb. She went with them to BYU Idaho campus and saw them kiss when they were in the car.
At this point in time, Tammy Daybell was still alive.