Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #17

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OK. Here's another post clarifying the Jeep, seat, wheel, townhouse thing. I've done some more research.

First, I've reposted from myself on ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15:
"Things are being loaded to the storage unit from the Rogue and then unloaded from the storage unit to the Rogue because it's easier to load them into the Rogue in a garage attached to the residence, hidden from view, then drive to a location unattached from the residence to unload them. No suspicious activity on camera. They had to have known the unit had cameras. Don't load things on camera that can be seen. This is also why the 4-door Jeep Wrangler with folding rear seats and tinted windows is a better option to haul certain things than a Ford F-150.
Folding rear seats:
seat-lowering-2012-wrangler-jpg.232103

Removable rear-facing seat:
3rd-row-jeep-wrangler-seat-jpg.232109

The bed of the truck is open to view of people and cameras. The only reason in this case to haul things hidden from view and cameras is obvious. So. The Wrangler wheel and seat are removed from the vehicle on Oct 1 within the garage at the townhome and loaded into Lori's Nissan. They move those to the storage unit so no questions will be asked. They load something within the garage at the townhome and wherever that 2012 Wrangler is driven on Oct 1-3 will be the route along which the Jeep will be unloaded. They return Oct 3rd to the storage unit and remove the wheel and seat to replace onto the Jeep again within the garage, so that the Jeep is never on the surveillance of the storage unit, and they can take as much time as necessary to first remove the seat and wheel and then replace the seat and wheel."

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That's as far as I got.
I can make sense of the rear seat being removed, but couldn't conceive of why the wheel had to be removed as well. I've since done some research. I wanted to know how big the townhome garage was (without going there and measuring it for obvious reasons).

In the first attached file is a photo from Zillow of the garage in unit #176. There is a 2018 Nissan Murano (check here: https://65e81151f52e248c552b-fe74cd...ages/2018-Nissan-Murano-Pearl-White-Color.jpg For those worried about keeping track of another car... this is UNRELATED TO THE CASE. Just happened to be in the photo) giving us reference of a 111.2" wheelbase. Clearly the garage opening is twice as wide as that at approximately 222.4 inches. Using that reference the space from the door to the wall is approximately 18 inches. Each slab of concrete for the floor is approximately 129-130 inches wide. Total garage width of appx 260 inches.

In the second file, is a photo of the garage in unit 141. The layout is identical to Lori's 175 unit (see third -sixth photos). The concrete slabs of garage floor appear to be square. If so, the depth of the garage is appx 260". Note the door we are viewing the unit 141 garage is from the right side of the garage, this door leads to the kitchen. This is important later.

The seventh file (third showing garage measurements) is a photo of the garage in unit 176 (Melani's unit). The layout is a mirror (left-to-right) to 175 (Lori's unit). Note the door is approximately 23 inches from the center slab line and appx 35 inches wide, swinging inward to the kitchen. There's a step down to the garage from the kitchen. Knowing all this, we can draw it out.

The eighth file (drawing of the garage) is a mock-up of the garage at 175 (Lori's unit). Here I've added the two vehicles in question: 2019 Nissan Rogue (I found a 2020 in red, Lori's was blue) and 2012 Jeep Wrangler Unlimited 4-door (I found a 2013 in tan, theirs was silver grey). I found the images from www.the-blueprints.com (Thanks guys!). This shows the vehicles to scale in the garage estimated based on the previous images.

I can't imagine there being much in the way stored in the garage, but in case there was, it only helps solidify my guess here.
Assume Alex loaded the bodies on his own. I really don't see Lori helping much just as she had to leave when CV was killed. We also know that she couldn't have any evidence in her Nissan Rogue because that was why she and Alex used it to remove the wheel and seat to the storage unit Oct 2. If he had to heft anything of much weight he would have wanted the vehicle close to the kitchen door and step. The best way to do that is to remove the check rod from the door and swing it wider than 90 degrees. Doing so requires the wheel to be removed to prevent the wheel from hitting the rear right fender/quarter panel.

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Other reasons were suggested that they could have used the excuse that the Jeep kept hauling something large dry in the rain. It didn't rain that day. (Idaho Falls, ID Weather History | Weather Underground)
The timing on the storage unit footage:
Oct 1, Lori appears by herself. She only appears with Alex Oct 1,2, and 3. (video at: Lori Daybell abandoned a storage unit in Rexburg full of children's items | East Idaho News) see video at 0:30 for her initial visit with timestamp: 10-01-2019 Tue 14:32:14
Oct 2, Lori and Alex enter, see video at 0:37 timestamp: Wed 13:28:12
Oct 3, Lori and Alex enter, Alex looks back and forth, they remove large tote (seat) and wheel. See video 0:48 - 1:05, no legible timestamp given. Frame shows the seconds of the timestamp only partially. Nate, we need clarification!
Date unknown, Lori and Alex enter, Alex rolling in wheel. See video 1:24 - 1:28. Timestamp ends in 9:13-9:16 as in some hour:9 minutes:13-16 seconds.
IF Nate is correct in stating Lori appeared with Alex ONLY October 2-3, then logic states the wheel has to be rolled in before it was carried out. This puts the two rolling in the wheel perfectly after Oct 2 footage at 13:28:12. Follow me on this one: She shows him the unit, they look for a minute, go back out to the car, roll in the wheel. The whiteboard in the Dateline episode doesn't show Oct 1-3. Only Oct 6 through Nov. So all we have to figure this one out is the footage. I think my argument for the timeline is solid:
Oct 1 - Lori signs the contract and loads a tote (Dateline footage shows that one)
Oct 2 - Lori shows Alex the unit and he stores the wheel and seat.
Oct 3 - Lori and Alex remove the seat and wheel.
So, the argument for the seat and wheel being out of the Jeep and in the storage unit still stands. My statement on the timeline just got shorter. Another had suggested LE just needs to look at Alex and the Jeep's movement on Oct 2nd, overnight, and possibly early Oct 3rd. I agree. Would it be too much coincidence that getting rid of the kids was the same day someone shot at BB? I don't think so. Lori just got rid of her problems, someone else could have been trying to get rid of their problems by removing BB out of the picture in order to snatch MB's kids away. We know she herself with Alex wanted to do so from BB's family in Utah a month (Edit:removed "half" as it was Nov 14 a full month and then some) later and 911 was called then as well. Was that the motive for shooting BB? Take the kids to get rid of them?

Oct 2nd afternoon was bright and sunny, high of 49 in Rexburg. There was no snow on the ground in the valley. It's un-telling where he could have taken them. River, desert, forest? My guess with Alex having experience taking Lori's dogs to the AZ desert is to check somewhere he might be more familiar with. I suspect he headed up Pioneer Rd to west Main St and turned left to follow ID Hwy 33. In 15 minutes he would be surrounded by miles and miles of sagebrush with access roads easily handled by a Jeep. There are even caves and a landfill on the South side of the highway toward the Menan Buttes.

Someone please tell me this is impossible and/or too much speculation.

this is some great sleuthing! I kept thinking about the Jeep seat/wheel after you talked about it much earlier.
 
It’s Tylee’s birthday, let’s go with Uncle Alex to Disneyland, other Southern California or Nevada theme parks? So many miles in between...?

Somehow, we are missing an important event in the timeline. For those of you who have children (or grandchildren), Tylee had her 17th birthday on September 24th, 2019. For her (and others important in her life) , it should be an important date. Based on previous Instagram posts I have seen from her mother, Lori, birthday’s are acknowledged and important.
 
this is some great sleuthing! I kept thinking about the Jeep seat/wheel after you talked about it much earlier.

For me, the speculation doesn’t make sense. First, Alex Cox, the first suspect, is unfamiliar with Idaho terrain. He MIGHT think himself somewhat of an outdoorsman but in Idaho, our terrain is more rugged. For most from out of the area, you should use a topo map. It is very unlike the hills of Texas. This, I think, discounts the idea that if Alex Cox was responsible for taking TR and JV from Rexburg, Idaho, killing two close relatives and then taking responsibility for disposing of those two bodies (two kids he had known for years), he would likely choose an area more geographically familiar to him. Based on my research, AC has worked in the past as a truck driver for hazardous materials, most recently into the Midwest and Arkansas. Also, he has lived in Texas, Arizona, and California. Possibly, other states. Most important, finding the kids.
 
Excellent sleuthing! Well done. It supports (I think, I'll have to re-read it a few more times) the assertion I've been posting for 13-14 threads that: AC left in Tylee's Jeep between 9/24 and 9/27, with the kids in the car, dead or alive.
I agree. I never suggested or believed the bodies were in storage bins (or at the storage place). I believe AC dropped off - or otherwise disposed of - the children somewhere along his route south from Rexburg to AZ. Realistically he had to be in AZ the evening of 10/1, sans kids. Because the kids thought they were heading to grandparents and/or a friend, there would have been no suspicion. I think they are somewhere in ID, UT, or AZ

ETA And at this point it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that MB was with them. She and AC may have dropped the kids with like-minded cult members in Boise (that's where MB had told BB she was headed). Then MB and AC continued south to try to knock off BB
Sadly, I think you're on the right track as to how things happened. Also sadly, I do not believe the children are still alive. Am filled with helpless rage at Lori, a so called mother, as well as for the rest of her disfunctional family who have played a part here.
 
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Can someone help me figure out how Venmo timestamps work? I know with social media the time I see on the screen can be vastly different from the time someone else sees based on either my settings or the other users' settings. Here is Tylee's Venmo: Tylee Ryan

I see the following dates and times on my screen:

Tylee Ryan paid CR
❤️
on October 16, 2019 at 07:43PM - Comments (0)
b29828a0-0268-4fd5-b783-660c0c0c656f

Tylee Ryan paid CR
we love you
on October 10, 2019 at 11:39PM - Comments (0)
b29828a0-0268-4fd5-b783-660c0c0c656f

Tylee Ryan paid CR
❤️
on September 11, 2019 at 01:07AM - Comments (0)
b29828a0-0268-4fd5-b783-660c0c0c656f

Tylee Ryan paid CR
!!
on August 6, 2019 at 12:33AM - Comments (0)

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Are these the times showing for everyone else or are these times only showing me when the transaction happened in my timezone (EST)? Some of the transactions seem late at night but maybe not if I have to convert to MST.

MOO.

(I edited CR's name to initials due to TOS)
I see the same times on her Venmo transactions and I'm not in your timezone.
 
I agree. I never suggested or believed the bodies were in storage bins (or at the storage place). I believe AC dropped off - or otherwise disposed of - the children somewhere along his route south from Rexburg to AZ. Realistically he had to be in AZ the evening of 10/1, sans kids. Because the kids thought they were heading to grandparents and/or a friend, there would have been no suspicion. I think they are somewhere in ID, UT, or AZ

ETA And at this point it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that MB was with them. She and AC may have dropped the kids with like-minded cult members in Boise (that's where MB had told BB she was headed). Then MB and AC continued south to try to knock off BB

Your timeline doesn’t have a conflict with mine, perhaps the geographic route proposed is different.
 
What did you all think about the part of the Dateline episode where East Idaho News received "a ping" location for Lori's phone in Kauai from "a sleuth" and that location turned out to be within a couple hundred feet of the townhouse they were renting in Kauai? Did someone hack Lori's phone or G-mail account to see her saved locations? Or was someone guessing based on where Lori once lived with Charles? I'm not sure how to include that detail in the timeline since they didn't give a date when that tip was sent. But I found that fascinating... o_O:cool: MOO.

The way they phrased that, my first inclination was that it was someone here or on another web forum who has better techaccess than I do...

If KW could access CV’s email she might have had access to what 20+ phones were doing too.
MOO

Lovely. Yes. If it were me, and the account was still active, and the email connected to the phone account was the one I had access to... well, I'd be into it.

Hacking into someone's computer account is a federal crime, actually a felony. But I get that as executrix she would have implied permission to access so NVM!

I'm not so sure it can really be considered hacking if one knows the password that easily... I just did pretty much the same with one of my kids' email accounts last week, and he was pretty darn grateful that I could guess the password he couldn't remember. And then I rescued about five other rather accounts he'd also lost access to as a result of one little broken phone incident along with password carelessness. I didn't even have to do much in the way of social engineering. (Remember guys... Make your passwords all different, but STORE THEM SOMEWHERE!)
 
Finally watched the Dateline episode, thought they did a good, solid summary of the events... but good grief, I hate hate hate her little baby I'm-so-innocent voice. Grr.

It was very, very carefully constructed, wasn't it? I almost feel like we know enough additional info here that we ought to be able to read between the lines of what they didn't say.
 
I'm more and more alone in thinking the kids are safely stashed away with someone and L&C are being open because they are either innocent or there is no possible evidence and have been told to openly act innocent.

I also think there is way more going on and it involves AVOW but I don't even have any guesses as to what. I have a hypothesis about a funding source but sleuthing that person is not only against the rules, he may have good security that could hunt me down so I am avoiding that.

On my own, in poking around news articles over the last few years in Chandler/Gilbert, Eastern Idaho, and elsewhere, I've found a few others who have dropped out, enough to make me think there are some people camping out or otherwise prepping already.

In researching AVOW I found a mainstream LDS forum discussing them. Apparently there are a great deal of military and LE involvement!

I'm not a big conspiracy theorist so I don't think there is some big plan here. But I do think we have only scratched the surface. I think those several people close to this whole situation who have called it a cult are pretty close to the truth.

How could there really be a “safely stashed away” scenario when, in order to be stashed, the kids have to have been isolated to the extreme from any outside public places or contact, from all friends and relatives, from all electronics etc. for 5 long months without their parents.
Basically they are being kept in a prison, if they are alive. It doesn’t let Lori off the hook.
I’m still hoping that once the state has secured custody, they can get Lori and Chad for kidnapping.
 
@RexburgSleuth - I can't argue with your summary. It's what I feel in my gut is the situation, but I'm impressed at how you worked out all the logistics. Sucks that the details didn't disprove the possibility that we almost all expect to be the answer... and I bet that you were hoping you could disprove your theory the whole darn time you were working on it. I'm sorry.

Oh... and would you mind checking that app you were talking about, to see if anyone has moved their ward records lately? The books are telling stories, y'know.
 
How could there really be a “safely stashed away” scenario when, in order to be stashed, the kids have to have been isolated to the extreme from any outside public places or contact, from all friends and relatives, from all electronics etc. for 5 long months without their parents.
Basically they are being kept in a prison, if they are alive. It doesn’t let Lori off the hook.
I’m still hoping that once the state has secured custody, they can get Lori and Chad for kidnapping.

Exactly.

This kind of thing is highly damaging to kids - I hope the state moves to take emergency custody soon
 
Oh, and one last thing to ponder... what is in those totes that is so heavy?
[Forgive me if this is too graphic...]

I just... I don't really think there are bodies in the totes. For one, while JJ is small enough that I suppose with some, uh... careful rearrangement it's possible, I just don't think it's very realistic for Tylee. I have plenty of those totes around here - and I've used them for moving, a lot - so I'm familiar with the size, and well, to put it bluntly, her torso would take more than rearrangement.

And they don't seem to be hiding any tools in the storage.

But the weight might well be right for that possibility. The totes are too heavy for toys, for clothes, for bedding. Dishes, if they were plates and glassware, possibly. Books. Canned goods. Maybe electronics, depending on what it was, like a desktop cpu + monitor, etc. A tote full of photo albums and envelopes.

A thought, since we're wondering about the in/out from storage... are we absolutely certain that it wasn't being used as a way to transfer items between people? Say, a dead drop? Do we have enough information to confirm that the same items went in that came out, basically, that everything is accounted for?

Does this storage facility have a gate that you have to enter with a keycode? Those log time of entry. I wonder if they used a system like that to determine what times to check the video, or if they went through the complete videos to manually determine everyone who accessed that storage unit? Because it would be totally possible for SOMEONE ELSE who had a storage unit at the same facility to enter the facility with their own codes, and access Lori's unit. And if the storage facility only checked the security video for the times that matched the entry logs... they could miss other people accessing that same unit.

I don't know if I explained that right... but it would certainly explain the seemingly strange behavior of removing stuff just days after putting it in the unit.
 
Oh, and one last thing to ponder... what is in those totes that is so heavy?
[Forgive me if this is too graphic...]

I just... I don't really think there are bodies in the totes. For one, while JJ is small enough that I suppose with some, uh... careful rearrangement it's possible, I just don't think it's very realistic for Tylee. I have plenty of those totes around here - and I've used them for moving, a lot - so I'm familiar with the size, and well, to put it bluntly, her torso would take more than rearrangement.

And they don't seem to be hiding any tools in the storage.

But the weight might well be right for that possibility. The totes are too heavy for toys, for clothes, for bedding. Dishes, if they were plates and glassware, possibly. Books. Canned goods. Maybe electronics, depending on what it was, like a desktop cpu + monitor, etc. A tote full of photo albums and envelopes.

A thought, since we're wondering about the in/out from storage... are we absolutely certain that it wasn't being used as a way to transfer items between people? Say, a dead drop? Do we have enough information to confirm that the same items went in that came out, basically, that everything is accounted for?

Does this storage facility have a gate that you have to enter with a keycode? Those log time of entry. I wonder if they used a system like that to determine what times to check the video, or if they went through the complete videos to manually determine everyone who accessed that storage unit? Because it would be totally possible for SOMEONE ELSE who had a storage unit at the same facility to enter the facility with their own codes, and access Lori's unit. And if the storage facility only checked the security video for the times that matched the entry logs... they could miss other people accessing that same unit.

I don't know if I explained that right... but it would certainly explain the seemingly strange behavior of removing stuff just days after putting it in the unit.

Books are heavy, a decomposing body with the absence of fluid, not so much. I guess it depends on the timeline.
 
Exactly.

This kind of thing is highly damaging to kids - I hope the state moves to take emergency custody soon

Agree, this type of scenario is very damaging to children and do the optics of the situation give the general public any reason to believe the welfare of two MISSING minor children are of great concern to the two main persons of interest, Lori Cox Ryan Vallow (Daybell) and Chad Daybell? Not from anything I have seen in MSM or elsewhere.
 
Agree, this type of scenario is very damaging to children and do the optics of the situation give the general public any reason to believe the welfare of two MISSING minor children are of great concern to the two main persons of interest, Lori Cox Ryan Vallow (Daybell) and Chad Daybell? Not from anything I have seen in MSM or elsewhere.

Yep.

Hope we are not waiting years for a resolution
 
[/QUOTE]


Couldn’t agree more and I’m in the US. Wish they were experiencing intense -uncomfortable interrogation -
Their rights take precedence over these innocent missing children’s she/he lied about-Coupled with all of the suspicious and CONVENIENT ( moo) death surrounding them and the lies and running.

Theory that likely has crossEd many minds - she meets C -sparks fly- how do we get to be together - use his fiction books as justification to do the worse so as to get what they want- to be together
-She gets A to kill her x as he’s in her way connected to kids - so she gets his money, oops no money ,he’s gone now gets rid of her kids ( no use for them - told x she didn’t care for them anymore and there is no one checking in on them regularly now that dad is gone) A does the above too. Motive : money and 1 of the 144,000

C gets rid of his wife Of 30 years after telling people he had a vision of her death , path is nearly clear, the only one who knows and could incriminate is A - so someone did that for something -cash and/or to be one of the 144,000 ( sarcasm) . Too many coincidences , too much death, two too many missing children lied about, “ hidden”.

Sad that they get to smile on the beach holding hands- hopefully LE will figure it out.

Have to keep reminding myself -
In a perfect world and I guess these two are in it ....

Probable cause differs from suspicion - and people can’t be arrested based on suspicion.

All are innocent til proven guilty- 6th Amendment.
How could there really be a “safely stashed away” scenario when, in order to be stashed, the kids have to have been isolated to the extreme from any outside public places or contact, from all friends and relatives, from all electronics etc. for 5 long months without their parents.
Basically they are being kept in a prison, if they are alive. It doesn’t let Lori off the hook.
I’m still hoping that once the state has secured custody, they can get Lori and Chad for kidnapping.

It’s hard to swallow their island hopping freedom. It’s driven me to read about suspicion vs probable cause and then reviewing the 6th Amendment because their freedom from interrogation seems so wrong , can’t imagine the frustration LE is feeling.

Sadly and perhaps like many
I assume ,moo- the knowledge of their whereabouts quite possibly went down with her brother A in his very “suspicious” and seemingly convenient death. Could he have been the unhinged dirty work doer? You’ve thought it for sure. He got rid of the obstacles and what did he get for it? If Alex did something with kids, LV will be looking to shrug it and have a defense reminiscent in a way of Casey Anthony’s. Moo, it’s incredible that one can obscure the whereabouts of their children from LE when their is true concern for their safety without intense interrogated.
 
Since we can't directly link to the group that cannot be named, I searched this and found a hit on the first return. I know we talked about the Boise event and I may have missed discussion on the Saturday, September 21st event in Rexburg. Please note the speaker after Chad. Also spoke at BYU Education Week in August 2019. No one sees Tylee or JJ after Monday, September 23rd.
BBM. According to the event program, neither Chad nor the person you're alluding to spoke at that event.
 
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