Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, arrested* #23

[Patch Tuesday]

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was presumed the late wife had died of natural causes but was exhumed recently and her death is now being investigated.
The new wife's husband was shot in a family argument earlier this year:

Chandler Police identify man who was shot dead during family fight

The husband and wife are not cooperating with police and have since vanished.

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE*NO DISCUSSION


Timeline Part I - (1968 - 2017)
Timeline Part II - (Dec 2017 - July 10 2019)
Timeline Part III - (11 July 2019)
Timeline Part IV - (12 July 2019 - Dec 30 2019)
Timeline Part V - (January 2020)
Timeline Part VI - (February 2020)


Thread #1 ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 #5
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ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15
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[jjenny]

Just found this new article:

Lori Vallow Daybell to be transported to Madison County Jail

Looks like Lori will be spending time in Gen Pop. I hope she is ready

Apparently I have heard that the jail she is going to has some of the best food in the country.

As far as jails go, this sounds like a nice one.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Yes, Kay mentions this on the Dateline episode too.

However, this has not been confirmed officially by LEO, so to me, this has not been substantiated yet. Although, I don't doubt Kay, this would not hold up in a court trial. MOO

We can hope that LE has lots more electronic information from phones and computers...

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Now it makes more sense. Maybe that was the reason that she was in Hawaii.

If CV had been killed while she was in Hawaii, she would have an iron-clad alibi.

This may also explain her getting so upset at Alex. Was that before or after she visited her friend in Hawaii though? MOO

Exactly what I believe as well. I had originally thought that the argument between AC and LV was something to do with the "whole family". Now I think it was to do with some botched effort to off CV while she was in HI.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

And yet Utah has the highest percentage of people who access online *advertiser censored* of every state. Google it and virtually every source puts Utah at the top of the list. So you have this dictonomy of having strong desires with no acceptable outlet and a culture that shames you for having those feelings.

None of that really pertains to your point other than maybe reinforcing it. But your comment got me thinking that the view of sex and sexuality in the Mormon culture is very different than what others might view as normal in other places, at least in modern times, not just the *advertiser censored* comments above. This got me wondering if this might influence our players in this drama. Dictates against sex outside of marriage, for example, might be the reason for some of these quickie marriages, whether the person was not recently married (AC and his new bride) or recently divorced and presumably getting attached to someone more acceptable to the group (whatever the group is and whatever beliefs they have) like MB and IP.

I am starting to see this a bit differently too. At first thinking about the quick marriages to do with their own version of end of times . However, the Inside Edition article about her younger life really pointed out just how strict her LDS trainingn was. What was it like to be such a strict devout Mormon, living in California in the 60s and 70s??? They must have had to hold onto that strict (Lori had religions lessons EVERY DAY before school???) as real outsiders, I imagine. Who knows how large the ward was there back then? I am guessing that her post-highschool marriage might have been an elopement. There is no way I can see her getting permission. But I could see the family actually moving out of state because of it. As one person pointed out.. "some are kicked out of the family over such actions". My guess in this case is "family over sins". Blows my mind to see the decisions she made in her life from early on. IMO, IMO. BOO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

And yet Utah has the highest percentage of people who access online *advertiser censored* of every state. Google it and virtually every source puts Utah at the top of the list. So you have this dictonomy of having strong desires with no acceptable outlet and a culture that shames you for having those feelings.

None of that really pertains to your point other than maybe reinforcing it. But your comment got me thinking that the view of sex and sexuality in the Mormon culture is very different than what others might view as normal in other places, at least in modern times, not just the *advertiser censored* comments above. This got me wondering if this might influence our players in this drama. Dictates against sex outside of marriage, for example, might be the reason for some of these quickie marriages, whether the person was not recently married (AC and his new bride) or recently divorced and presumably getting attached to someone more acceptable to the group (whatever the group is and whatever beliefs they have) like MB and IP.

Utah also has the highest use of antidepressants. Just seems that that which is not allowable through the church has alternatives...

 

[nhmemorymaker]

In my opinion, Yes. Other LDS may disagree. Feel free to chime in.

The way I look at it is the following:

The reason that murder is so serious is that God values life above all else.

This is why Murder and Abortion are right at the to of the list for LDS.

A close second to that is (for lack of a better word) "life force", or actions that create life.

This would include all sexual sins, for it reverses the natural order of things. At least that was the way I was raised. Things have been getting "strange" recently.

Right now there is rumblings of the church splintering at some point (Currently unsubstantiated rumors). This is due to Conservatives on the one hand, and Liberals on the other.

A lot of recent changes have been interpreted differently by both sides, to fit the narrative.

From what I have recently seen this is shaking up a some people's faith, and it's very apparent to me, at least.

I can see someone being disillusioned with the ambiguity of recent changes in the church, and being led to fall into more dangerous ideologies.

My point is, that Lori is about the same age as I am. We both grew up in the same religion. So, I am sure that there may be similarities.

In the 70's and 80's the prophets were much more direct than they are now. They basically gave what I refer to as the "Thunder and Lightning" speeches. They didn't mince words, or try to walk anything back. They didn't make apologies or make accommodations. Things were very black and white during this time period.

There was no gray areas, things were very clear. Then it started changing.

Recently though there are changes that the church has been making that has some questioning their faith, questioning the validity of the origins of the LDS faith, and of the current prophets.

There are other religions that are also struggling with the same problems. The underlying feeling is an instability in where one is putting their faith. This is especially potent in the LDS religion.

We grew up being taught that this is the "true church", the only living church with all of the keys and authority, living prophets, etc. Now people are questioning that. Add to that someone that may be mentally unstable, and has delusions of grandeur, that sounds like Lori.

The reasons are a massive rabbit hole. If interested you can find out what these are by googling "lds forums", you'll find out really fast what I am referring to. I don't think any of that would be helpful on this forum though.

I think that this could happen to devout members of any religion, but I feel that the unique dynamics in the LDS religion may be compounding the issue. Or maybe I am just over analyzing it.

MOO

Thanks for the analysis. It answers some of my questions about her upbringing in CA. How strong would the church have been in CA back in the 70s/80s. Certainly not like Utah. AZ or ID, right?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

When Chad and Tammy lived here in Springville, both took on additional jobs, Chad at the cemetery and Tammy at the elementary school, then high school, in addition to both running their publishing business together. When they moved to Idaho, Tammy immediately found another job at the nearby elementary school, and it appears, Chad took on work at another publisher as a sales person. I believe Chad also made some money publishing a subscription based newsletter and web sub forum under the AVOW umbrella. Tammy was the stable income, but I’m sure they always hoped to make it big through their books, and publishing business.

You have explained the overall pain within the community, which will never ever go away. So uncomfortable and so sad. But do you see a "mix" of support? I guess i would think that most are supportive of Tammy. However, are their camps that seem to be behind Chad's children and Chad?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Just thought of something else, I've heard mentioned. Not sure if it is urban legend or based on something a prophet said. But it may be pertinent, why we keep circling back to the Temple.
For reference, when LDS say veil let me explain the importance behind this:
- LDS believe that we lived with God, before this life. Commonly referred to as the Premortal existence.
- LDS believe that before Adam and Eve was sent to the Earth, there was a War in Heaven, when God cast Satan out. Sent him here on Earth, with 1/3 of the hosts of heaven.
- So when we are born, a veil blocks our view of the spiritual realm of existence.

- When we die we stay here on Earth in what is commonly referred to as the Spirit World. This is broken up in two places: Spirit Prison, and Spirit Paradise. We hang out there until Judgement Day.

If the veil were removed, we would be able to see spirits and the spirit world. At least in theory.

It is not uncommon for LDS to have a story or two about being visited by a recently deceased relative.

Sorry for the long explanation, it just helps provide context to the word veil in how the LDS religion defines it.

So, what I have heard mentioned by some, is that in the Temple the veil is very thin, and that means that getting answers to our questions are especially powerful. It is believed to be a more direct conduit to God.

I guess, it is akin to the cartoons of the wise man climbing to the top of a mountain to get answers to the universe. Obviously, a play on how Moses received the Ten commandments.

That being the case, I believe that this cult is using this in a very twisted way for their own purposes, whatever these are. MOO

Is this why there are so many gigantic multi-million dollar temples being built? I have often wondered how Mormons accept this massive spending of their money (tithing) when that money could help so many people, civilizations, society.... It is because they truly believe this access to God if in one of these buildings, rather than say..praying on their own.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Thank you! Then the question remains, again apologies if this has been discussed, was Chad’s life insurance comparable or greater than Tammy’s?

We don't know how much life insurance Chad has. Jmo.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Question regarding Lori's every morning "religious lessons". Is that what I call my morning devotions? Or is there more to it? Jmo

 

[FindingJoLee]

I’m agreeing that they met earlier. It only makes sense. To further add to the speculation of summer 2017 look at the forward Chad wrote for MG’s book.

It says: BBM

From the moment I first met Melanie Gibb in the summer of 2017, I knew there was a burning passion within her to help others understand who they are, and that Jesus Christ truly loves them. I had just given an evening presentation to around 200 people at a campout in northern Utah when Melanie came up to me at the podium and started talking like we were old friends. I distinctly remember that she spoke energetically and with that charming Southern accent. She told me a bit about herself and that she loved to testify of Christ. Melanie told me if I ever got the chance, I should speak in her hometown of Mesa, Arizona. I told her I would like to do that someday, and she gave me a farewell hug. Then she and her friends walked off into the darkness, and I loaded up my truck for a long drive home to Idaho that night.

[.....]
Chad Daybell February 2019 Gibb.

Feel The Fire – by Melanie Gibb

This was written in February 2019, when we know he was deep into the throws of “communication” with LV. I’m going to bet he wrote the “friends” part in the forward because it had an impact to him. Maybe it was the first time he met LV?

This is the first sample I’ve read of Chad’s writing. It reads like the opening lines of a romance novel. “Charming Southern accent?” “evening presentation?” “farewell hug?” I get a strange vibe from the way he describes this meeting.

 

[kye0001]

I'll take MBP's with a bucket of salt. She was not the one shot at, right? As you say, he has the bullet and surveillance footage.
She is clearly just throwing all the allegations possible at him. I bet she has no proof whatsoever. BB has proof of his attempted murder.

Absolutely. At the end of the day thanks to B.B. LE knows where his kids are, they must be safe and cared for otherwise they would have called family services. I take whatever she says with a bucket of salt. MOO

 

[FindingJoLee]

Question regarding Lori's every morning "religious lessons". Is that what I call my morning devotions? Or is there more to it? Jmo

it’s LDS Seminary, where high school students have a daily (weekday) religious instruction class before school (or sometimes opting out during a regular hs class to attend.). It’s daily religious instruction that is meant to build the foundation and habit for their own (later, adult life) daily religious study, just as you describe doing yourself - daily personal study time.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Try "ned snyder"+ chad

then look for the reddit link.

I just cannot find words to describe.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

it’s LDS Seminary, where high school students have a daily (weekday) religious instruction class before school (or sometimes opting out during a regular hs class to attend.). It’s daily religious instruction that is meant to build the foundation and habit for their own (later, adult life) daily religious study, just as you describe doing yourself - daily personal study time.

Who does the instruction? From the HS friend discussion, it sounds as if her family was "different", so perhaps not many Mormons. So where would the instructors be?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I could be mis-remembering, but I swear someone (Colby, maybe?) saying that in all of Lori's homes, she kept a room empty for dancing, and it was phrased in a way that made it seem like a normal thing for her. I could totally be remembering WHO said it wrong, but I know it was mentioned somewhere by someone who would be close enough to her to know that it was a *thing*. It stuck in my head, because at the time, I thought, "Oh! That explains the big empty room with the bare floor!"


You're generally required to claim pets. They need to know if any belongings are valuable enough to sell to pay debts, and unfortunately, pets are considered possessions.

This discussion brought me to a personal experience... When first visiting my brother in Gilbert... large house...but such a weird entry into a living room with no furniture just mirrors. I asked why...and he also said for dancing and dancing lessons for neighborhood kids. So its a "thing?"

 

[FindingJoLee]

Who does the instruction? From the HS friend discussion, it sounds as if her family was "different", so perhaps not many Mormons. So where would the instructors be?

Most places, it's a calling like other voluntary positions in the Church. (Seminary still goes on 5 days a week all over, to this day.) There are typically a couple of sections daily (maybe 6:30am -ish, and 7:30am -ish) at the Church or some location convenient to the HS. People pick the one that fits into their morning extra-curricular schedule and attend that one, then go on to school.

Much larger number of students attend in Utah, so professional teachers might be hired by Church Education and teach 7 sections/day just like any other profession HS teacher.

In my run-of-the-mill California seminary classes ages ago, there were probably 20-ish students there on any given morning. My California HS was probably about 5% LDS, maybe a little less, and not everyone chose to attend seminary.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

ITA. The Black Widows' convention? Did Alex have life insurance?

I feel quite certain this is the case. And who knows, if we find out he had insurance taken out on him, and ZP was beneficiary... we know it really goes to Lori, but she is off the hook with the connection the police would make. At one point I was going back and forth as to whether AC was a suicide, or a murder. I favor murder now... and feel ZP probably performed the act. Conveniently a dumbfounded kid was there to see it, and not her. imo

 

[janx]

Bringing this forward. I want to talk about this.

Pivotal moment to what? I see Lori's moment maybe being years ago. Can we have more than one pivotal moment?

There is so much going on, but it seems that CV's death set the disappearance of the kids in motion. They were there.