Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #28

[LDS social scientist]

Sometimes the CliffNotes or our course in Mormonism is helpful.. Reminding increases Recall!!! But as simply as you can what IS the actual meaning of "firstborn"

As I understand the concept of Church of the Firstborn from mainstream Mormonism (though it isn't focused on very regularly there), "Firstborn" is a reference to Jesus Christ. So there's both the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (mainstream Mormonism) which exists now, and the expectation of the future Church of the Firstborn (Jesus Christ).

But rather than being two names for the same thing, it's more useful to think of them as Christ's Church on earth in these normal times on the one hand, and Christ's Church in heaven (and the transition into it during the Second Coming) on the other. The Church of the Firstborn refers basically to those who will be saved (exalted in Mormon terms) at the highest level. Not all current members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints will fit in this category (while some currently non-LDS people may). So when LDS splinter groups invoke the term, no matter how different and unconnected they may be otherwise, they are using the term to signal that they are expecting history to move into a new stage, with Christ's more direct involvement on the earth, an involvement that will directly transition into his heavenly kingdom.

 

[Mystery22]

Sometimes the CliffNotes or our course in Mormonism is helpful.. Reminding increases Recall!!! But as simply as you can what IS the actual meaning of "firstborn"

MOO I would guess that the firstborn is referring to Jesus Christ as the first born son of Heavenly Father or God. JMO

 

[Alpha Bravo]

I was hoping we would have heard news from the multi agency multi state meeting. Not a peep.

About that time it came out that Alex was tied to Tammy’s demise with “digital evidence “... Since then I’ve wondered if that tidbit wasn’t to throw everyone off from demanding Chad be arrested. JMO

 

[nhmemorymaker]

i believe we have the ok to quote Annie Cushing.. just saw this a few minutes ago on a misc FB page. She has been relatively quiet on her own site....
Annie Cushing Anything you read right now about Joe‘s insurance policy is rumor. Nothing has been confirmed. The detective in charge of his case at PPD told me they will not be reopening the case, and I’m still waiting to hear back from an agent from the Phoenix FBI office.

 

[indicolite22]

About that time it came out that Alex was tied to Tammy’s demise with “digital evidence “... Since then I’ve wondered if that tidbit wasn’t to throw everyone off from demanding Chad be arrested. JMO

IMO it was intended to scare Chad. If LE has proof that Tammy's death was planned, it means that they could be getting closer to him.

 

[Sarjon]

i believe we have the ok to quote Annie Cushing.. just saw this a few minutes ago on a misc FB page. She has been relatively quiet on her own site....
Annie Cushing Anything you read right now about Joe‘s insurance policy is rumor. Nothing has been confirmed. The detective in charge of his case at PPD told me they will not be reopening the case, and I’m still waiting to hear back from an agent from the Phoenix FBI office.

This would be good news...one less victim in the wake of the storm. If there was no insurance policy, I can't imagine why LV would have motive to kill JR.

 

[indicolite22]

This would be good news...one less victim in the wake of the storm. If there was no insurance policy, I can't imagine why LV would have motive to kill JR.

She still allegedly got ahold of $75k (probably meant for Tylee) after his death. And she had Tylee's bank card in her possession when she and Chad were found in Hawaii.

 

[Sarjon]

About that time it came out that Alex was tied to Tammy’s demise with “digital evidence “... Since then I’ve wondered if that tidbit wasn’t to throw everyone off from demanding Chad be arrested. JMO

i believe we have the ok to quote Annie Cushing.. just saw this a few minutes ago on a misc FB page. She has been relatively quiet on her own site....
Annie Cushing Anything you read right now about Joe‘s insurance policy is rumor. Nothing has been confirmed. The detective in charge of his case at PPD told me they will not be reopening the case, and I’m still waiting to hear back from an agent from the Phoenix FBI office.

Digital evidence is the way to go, it leaves the only footprint. I know they are testing her remains, but in the case of Tammy, I worry it will be tough to find what was used. My hubs is an MD and I use him as my 'science source' when google doesn't work, he said you can find poison in bones for years, heavy metals, arsenic...but I think whatever killed Tammy was sneaky and stealth. In the case of JR, without a body, LE couldn't build a case, it would be a waste of time and money.

 

[indicolite22]

Lori is a horrible human being.
I wasn't attacking that poster. I was pointing out that there are more good people than bad. I also don't like pink font. Your "pink font" comes across personal, and judgmental. I taught elementary school and NEVER used red pens because it scared the kids. But whatever. If that makes you feel better, so be it. Believing in God can't be judged, that is between Lori and her God or lack thereof. Religion is a practice. It is a verb in my opinion, and she isn't practicing it well or at all. I have a friend who is an atheist, and he wouldn't harm a fly. Circling back, LV is a horrible human being. My opinion.

If you take their special beliefs out of the equation, could all this still happen? Would Lori be interested in Chad if he wasn't pretending to be a prophet? (IMO, probably not.) Would they be willing to eliminate their spouses and her kids to get rich and be together? Other people have done similar before.

 

[Sarjon]

If you take their special beliefs out of the equation, could all this still happen? Would Lori be interested in Chad if he wasn't pretending to be a prophet? (IMO, probably not.) Would they be willing to eliminate their spouses and her kids to get rich and be together? Other people have done similar before.

I hear you. But I'm going to say yes. I seriously think Lori is insane. I understand about the 'special' beliefs argument and it is valid. But what if we inserted Charles Mason in the fill in the blank,or Ted Bundy (neither were religious, just crazy) Crazy finds crazy, like finds like. I think Chad would have gone along his merry way if he never met Lori. She is beautiful and comes off as kind and polished. But she is the crazy one. Normal people, including her friends and family (interviews I've watched) genuinely liked her. Even JJ's grandfather said he, "felt sorry for Lori" after he saw her in court. She has charisma. Chad was borderline something, but not a mastermind plotter. Lori was the X factor. Ask her brother.

 

[Sarjon]

She still allegedly got ahold of $75k (probably meant for Tylee) after his death. And she had Tylee's bank card in her possession when she and Chad were found in Hawaii.

I hope it is not the case, only for JR but it was one of my early thoughts, I posted about this, however everyone says he wasn't insured. We do know she was cashing the kids SS checks. I would hope that JR would have taken her off the policy if he had one, but who knows. At least CV did.

 

[ThinkoutLoud]

I agree 100%. I love both of my parents, but if my father had something to do with my mother’s death I would not stick up for him. But....I do find myself trying to remind myself that these are brainwashed adults who have probably never had to think for themselves. Everything they have thought or done since they were born has been dictated for them by Chad and his beliefs. MOO

The legal system has to be very careful to not convict without solid proof. They haven’t arrested Chad yet. That says something. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence but it is circumstantial at this point and to our knowledge. Chad’s children are his children. They have every right to be even more cautious in “convicting” their father than LE is. I certainly would not believe such allegations against my father for the world. I would have a hard time even believing the most damning evidence because I know my dad so well. Certainly we can cut these kind, intelligent children who are suffering beyond anything right now a break. And that break can include their right to stand by their father. Every drop of guilt he has in this matter is only more pain for them. And they did nothing to deserve that pain. Nothing. MOO

ETA: At this point I would think Chad’s continued support for Lori would be especially painful.

 

[jennyjenny]

I need to confess something. Although I call myself an anthropologist, my primary interest in this case is lSure, there's wackiness in the history, but mainstream Mormons truly are the nice neighbors who'll help you move that heavy piano into your house. They hold political views that progressives will find abhorrent. But so does 40% of the country. Mormons embrace, they do not upend, the status quo. And they certainly don't disappear their own kids and escape to Idaho.
MOO

Thanks for this great post "reluctant" ... very well said!!

 

[ThinkoutLoud]

This would be good news...one less victim in the wake of the storm. If there was no insurance policy, I can't imagine why LV would have motive to kill JR.

JR’s death solves custody issues with Tylee immediately. Not saying he was murdered, but money certainly wasn’t the only thing to gain. MOO

 

[April_Dawn99]

I'm just going to drop these off here:
The Cult Leader as Psychopath | Rosanne Henry, LPC, Psychotherapy and also Cult Recovery Consultation
Dangerous Cult Leaders

Thank you very much for this link. It's a great read to summarize the psychology of such people.
I think two of them have synergy. One is creative and weak, another one not very creative but definitely *very* active in pursuit of her goals and charismatic. Lust and common goal to compensate for their feelings of inferiority brought them together. Chad received justification for his longings, I am sure its LVD who made him believe he should take active steps; and LVD received reason to justify her actions based on Chad's "visions". If they did not meet or were separate, probably there would be nothing to discuss JMO

I hear you. But I'm going to say yes. I seriously think Lori is insane. I understand about the 'special' beliefs argument and it is valid. But what if we inserted Charles Mason in the fill in the blank,or Ted Bundy (neither were religious, just crazy) Crazy finds crazy, like finds like. I think Chad would have gone along his merry way if he never met Lori. She is beautiful and comes off as kind and polished. But she is the crazy one. Normal people, including her friends and family (interviews I've watched) genuinely liked her. Even JJ's grandfather said he, "felt sorry for Lori" after he saw her in court. She has charisma. Chad was borderline something, but not a mastermind plotter. Lori was the X factor. Ask her brother.

Oh, yes, that's exactly what I think - agree 100% , I guess I just repeated your thought

 

[indicolite22]

I hear you. But I'm going to say yes. I seriously think Lori is insane. I understand about the 'special' beliefs argument and it is valid. But what if we inserted Charles Mason in the fill in the blank,or Ted Bundy (neither were religious, just crazy) Crazy finds crazy, like finds like. I think Chad would have gone along his merry way if he never met Lori. She is beautiful and comes off as kind and polished. But she is the crazy one. Normal people, including her friends and family (interviews I've watched) genuinely liked her. Even JJ's grandfather said he, "felt sorry for Lori" after he saw her in court. She has charisma. Chad was borderline something, but not a mastermind plotter. Lori was the X factor. Ask her brother.

Agreed on the first part (it could have happened outside LDS), but I don't see Chad as a victim or someone who was led astray. After all, he had "visions" of Tammy dying years before he met Lori. It was him, along with his writer buddies, who had "special gifts" and used them to manipulate people around him, as well as make money off of it.

 

[JosefZ]

I hear you. But I'm going to say yes. I seriously think Lori is insane. I understand about the 'special' beliefs argument and it is valid. But what if we inserted Charles Mason in the fill in the blank,or Ted Bundy (neither were religious, just crazy) Crazy finds crazy, like finds like. I think Chad would have gone along his merry way if he never met Lori. She is beautiful and comes off as kind and polished. But she is the crazy one. Normal people, including her friends and family (interviews I've watched) genuinely liked her. Even JJ's grandfather said he, "felt sorry for Lori" after he saw her in court. She has charisma. Chad was borderline something, but not a mastermind plotter. Lori was the X factor. Ask her brother.

IIRC Manson thought he was JC, and his followers were the reincarnation of the original christians. Then again, he also followed scientology, MOO.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

IMO it was intended to scare Chad. If LE has proof that Tammy's death was planned, it means that they could be getting closer to him.

Oh I agree, but I think Chad is getting better sleep than the Dooms Daybell Black Widow.

 

[tresir2012]

Digital evidence is the way to go, it leaves the only footprint. I know they are testing her remains, but in the case of Tammy, I worry it will be tough to find what was used. My hubs is an MD and I use him as my 'science source' when google doesn't work, he said you can find poison in bones for years, heavy metals, arsenic...but I think whatever killed Tammy was sneaky and stealth. In the case of JR, without a body, LE couldn't build a case, it would be a waste of time and money.

They took liver and thigh muscle samples in his case, so I don't know, in these circumstances, why they would not test them, unless too much time has passed.

 

[Sarjon]

Thanks for this great post "reluctant" ... very well said!!

I whole heartedly agree.

The legal system has to be very careful to not convict without solid proof. They haven’t arrested Chad yet. That says something. There is a lot of circumstantial evidence but it is circumstantial at this point and to our knowledge. Chad’s children are his children. They have every right to be even more cautious in “convicting” their father than LE is. I certainly would not believe such allegations against my father for the world. I would have a hard time even believing the most damning evidence because I know my dad so well. Certainly we can cut these kind, intelligent children who are suffering beyond anything right now a break. And that break can include their right to stand by their father. Every drop of guilt he has in this matter is only more pain for them. And they did nothing to deserve that pain. Nothing. MOO

But your dad is probably a good person.