Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #31

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I don't know what to make of this. If CV is afraid for his life from LV and AxC back in February why would he ever let JJ go to AZ to live with LV? Why would he be looking for a rental in LV's neighborhood in July?

I wonder if LV found out about changing the life insurance beneficiary to KW and LV put a lid on the crazy talk about translated beings and portals and tried to encourage CV to repair the relationship so he would change the beneficiary back to LV?

It also makes me wonder about CV's 2 adult sons. If CV was telling his lawyer and his sister and others he suspected LV would try and kill him, did his sons know that? That would certainly make for a different reaction when LV finally texted them that their father was dead...they might have been expecting it.
BBM
There are lots of reasons he (like many people in dysfunctional relationships) could have wanted to stay and work it out-- he loved her, he didn't want to split up the family, he wanted stability for JJ, etc. But IMO/E a very big factor would have been her gaslighting him, making him feel like HE was the one who was crazy, doubting himself, what he heard, questioning his own perceptions of the situation. Swearing she would never do something like that. That's what these abusers do, in order to manipulate the situation. If she wanted him to stay with her after that initial 2 months she took off (presumably to use him for his money since she ran out), there would be no end to her manipulations. Moo.
 
I hope I am wrong about Chandler LE. Following this case for months it was easy to be prejudiced against them as MSM reports originally said LE showed up, interviewed AxC and Lori, declared it self defense and closed the case while Lori had a pool party.

Released body cam footage together with the Dateline interview with Chandler detectives shows Chandler PD did a lot more than was in the news in July. Thank you for reminding me to keep an open mind.

Regarding the timing for LE to release the house back to Lori, we know Lori, Tylee, and Alex were together because we have a quote (Dateline? I forget the source) from the officer who drove the 3 of them home. We know Tylee is being interviewed at 10:14 a.m. at CPD (Gardener's timeline). At "midday" Lori called CR and told him CV died of a heart attack. My guess is Tylee's interview runs past 10:30 then LE take a little time to organize a van and driver, check with LE on scene to make sure it is clear, etc, and LV and company are back home by 11:30. Total speculation based on that phone call to CR happening around noon and Lori not making that call until LE is no where near by.

You may be right about some of your "Nah's" then. Three hours is not very long for a thorough investigation at the scene, particularly if only an hour of it occurs AFTER the primary witnesses have been interviewed and given their (in parts, conflicting) statements in separate interview rooms.

I'm particularly struck by the absence of a lot of blood at the scene (at least it appears that way in the body cam footage). At least four shots from a fairly powerful handgun and there's a body, but not blood spill and splatter all over the place (walls, floor, wall mirrors, clothing of shooter) as one might expect and the absence of which one would think would compel a lot of questions and some detailed investigation. That seems like a red flag to me. If there has been attempted cleanup, that is intent to conceal, which is incriminating.

Two of the primary victims to the conflict (and potentially the shooting itself) plus another individual who was present fled the scene and only two of them returned later, after police arrived. Another red flag. What evidence may have disappeared during that trip away? What might JJ have voluntarily uttered and what might have been LV's response had he remained on scene?

AxC has a criminal history of having assaulted one of LV's previous husbands. So, one would think THAT knowledge would introduce suspicion into anything he might say about self-defense where LV's husbands are concerned. Another critical red flag.

IIRC, in the Jennifer Dulos case, where there was NOT a body and the scene had been substantially cleaned, officers arrived at the scene around 7PM, called in detectives almost immediately and a crime scene processing unit shortly after that and they continued investigating throughout the night. Some of the search warrants served in association with the criminal processing of that scene and with the vehicle involved in removing the body from the scene were authorized at 3:30 the next morning. So, LE must have been at the property for at least a few hours after that. So, in all almost 12 hours.

In this case, the only person who might offer opposing testimony to those who were actually involved in CV's murder was the neighbor who'd offered help and he hadn't been inside the house. CV couldn't refute what AxC, LV, or TR had to say because he was the dead body on the floor. So, it would seem that officers would need to reconstruct events with the physical evidence serving as the ONLY voice potentially opposing that of the people involved in his murder.

It is true there was a history of contention in their divorce/separation, but that is only ONE piece of the puzzle and if it was considered at all, it would seem to me that it would serve to point a finger at who gained by the death. And particularly so in consideration of AxC's criminal history where LV's husbands are involved. However, newspaper reports the day of the shooting seem to dismiss it as the consequence of a domestic dispute (as though multiple shooting of a man is the natural consequence of such a dispute), even as they say the investigation is ongoing.

The short time before the scene is turned over is very troubling. It allowed for the raucous pool party, which evidenced how extremely odd and callous these people were, but one can't help but wonder what was lost by not conducting a thorough reconstruction of events, led by the physical evidence, rather than whatever came out of those odd, callous people's mouths.

The best hope is that these investigators and any detectives they called worked very fast and were not just negligent. ETA: Whether they were seems an open question at this point.
 
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I don't know what to make of this. If CV is afraid for his life from LV and AxC back in February why would he ever let JJ go to AZ to live with LV? Why would he be looking for a rental in LV's neighborhood in July?

I wonder if LV found out about changing the life insurance beneficiary to KW and LV put a lid on the crazy talk about translated beings and portals and tried to encourage CV to repair the relationship so he would change the beneficiary back to LV?

It also makes me wonder about CV's 2 adult sons. If CV was telling his lawyer and his sister and others he suspected LV would try and kill him, did his sons know that? That would certainly make for a different reaction when LV finally texted them that their father was dead...they might have been expecting it.
It's disturbing, all the signs are there that she was conspiring to kill him, she even told him to his face, and he blew off common sense. He didn't think she was capable?
 
In response to Alpha Bravo (I forgot to include the quote and don't know how to do so after posting):

Look at the puppy dog eyes of Chad on that beach. In the MG/LV/RJM podcast recently posted by someone here, RJM "knows [LV] is a gatherer" the first time he looks into her eyes when she visited the temple. That rookie cop taking her statement about the stolen purse/phone gives LV advice about how to beat the legitimately authorized petition for temporary commitment to a mental health facility.

LV is VERY good at turning on a particular kind of charm in the presence of men that makes them feel extraordinarily special and which temporarily turns off their usual capacity for reason.

Odysseus had to tie himself to the mast to avoid the siren's song.
Orpheus had his own magical song to resist theirs.

Blowing off common sense in the presence of that song is a story as old as time.
 
In response to Alpha Bravo (I forgot to include the quote and don't know how to do so after posting):

Look at the puppy dog eyes of Chad on that beach. In the MG/LV/RJM podcast recently posted by someone here, RJM "knows [LV] is a gatherer" the first time he looks into her eyes when she visited the temple. That rookie cop taking her statement about the stolen purse/phone gives LV advice about how to beat the legitimately authorized petition for temporary commitment to a mental health facility.

LV is VERY good at turning on a particular kind of charm in the presence of men that makes them feel extraordinarily special and which temporarily turns off their usual capacity for reason.

Odysseus had to tie himself to the mast to avoid the siren's song.
Orpheus had his own magical song to resist theirs.

Blowing off common sense in the presence of that song is a story as old as time.
What's crazy about Lori is she puts forward this religious zeal as well, besides being diminutive. In Ozark, Ruth seems about her size, but she talks like a mad sailor and is extremely abrasive and seems quite capable of the worst. Lori comes off a lot less threatening, at least most of the time. he he! giggle giggle. Gray Hughes copies it, pretty funny stuff. I imagine she was hard to live with tho, outside of the honeymoon daze.
 
What's crazy about Lori is she puts forward this religious zeal as well, besides being diminutive. In Ozark, Ruth seems about her size, but she talks like a mad sailor and is extremely abrasive and seems quite capable of the worst. Lori comes off a lot less threatening, at least most of the time. he he! giggle giggle. Gray Hughes copies it, pretty funny stuff. I imagine she was hard to live with tho, outside of the honeymoon daze.

I've only listened to one podcast that features Lori, so I have limited exposure, but I didn't pick up religious zeal (i.e. genuine belief) so much as thrilled to be part of a storyline that (1) brings in some income, (2) puts her on a pedestal relative to others, and (3) grants her some legitimacy (at least among others voluntarily engaged in the storyline) to demonize or use whoever she wants to demonize or use and to deify or serve whoever she wants to deify or serve in order to accomplish her goals (which usually involve acquisition of funds, escape of accountability, and improvement of living standards, except for now when a mobile home awaits her, but beggars can't be choosers, particularly when they are behind bars).

In the one podcast I listened to, MG seemed a genuine believer who frequently returned the topic of conversation on the podcast back to how religion and a humble relationship with JC helps one right wrongs in their life, but LV seemed a user as did RJM, who sounded unbelievably full of himself and a world-class podium-monopolizing BS'er, who usually turned the topic to himself. LV spoke up most often in response to RJM, often giggling or affirming what he said. MG might have been selling what she believed was the real thing, but LV and RJM sounded like a couple of snake oil salespeople on commission.

ETA: I have purposely not said anything more about Ozark and Ruth because I've already written spoilers once and I don't want to do so again!
 
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If there has been attempted cleanup, that is intent to conceal, which is incriminating....

The short time before the scene is turned over is very troubling. It allowed for the raucous pool party, which evidenced how extremely odd and callous these people were, but one can't help but wonder what was lost by not conducting a thorough reconstruction of events, led by the physical evidence, rather than whatever came out of those odd, callous people's mouths.
RSBM

The 911 call together with the body cam footage as officers arrive prove AxC walked out immediately from a position he says is next to CV's body (he was allegedly doing chest compressions). This really bothers me because there is blood in the kitchen sink so we know AxC was cleaning up blood before he called 911.

I could be completely wrong about the time Lori & co returned home, it is possible CPD was there longer than 3 hours. It was MOO. Police reports would tell us, why haven't those been released to the media yet?

Last point, the pool party. Earlier someone here at WS theorized the pool party was a deliberate response to what happened. The detectives can't come back and check fingerprints and whatever other physical evidence they might want if a bunch of people have walked through the crime scene. I'm not sure I give LV that much credit but it is possible.
 
RSBM
Last point, the pool party. Earlier someone here at WS theorized the pool party was a deliberate response to what happened. The detectives can't come back and check fingerprints and whatever other physical evidence they might want if a bunch of people have walked through the crime scene. I'm not sure I give LV that much credit but it is possible.

But Alex was an accomplished criminal ...
 
You may be right about some of your "Nah's" then. Three hours is not very long for a thorough investigation at the scene, particularly if only an hour of it occurs AFTER the primary witnesses have been interviewed and given their (in parts, conflicting) statements in separate interview rooms.

I'm particularly struck by the absence of a lot of blood at the scene (at least it appears that way in the body cam footage). At least four shots from a fairly powerful handgun and there's a body, but not blood spill and splatter all over the place (walls, floor, wall mirrors, clothing of shooter) as one might expect and the absence of which one would think would compel a lot of questions and some detailed investigation. That seems like a red flag to me. If there has been attempted cleanup, that is intent to conceal, which is incriminating.

Two of the primary victims to the conflict (and potentially the shooting itself) plus another individual who was present fled the scene and only two of them returned later, after police arrived. Another red flag. What evidence may have disappeared during that trip away? What might JJ have voluntarily uttered and what might have been LV's response had he remained on scene?

AxC has a criminal history of having assaulted one of LV's previous husbands. So, one would think THAT knowledge would introduce suspicion into anything he might say about self-defense where LV's husbands are concerned. Another critical red flag.

IIRC, in the Jennifer Dulos case, where there was NOT a body and the scene had been substantially cleaned, officers arrived at the scene around 7PM, called in detectives almost immediately and a crime scene processing unit shortly after that and they continued investigating throughout the night. Some of the search warrants served in association with the criminal processing of that scene and with the vehicle involved in removing the body from the scene were authorized at 3:30 the next morning. So, LE must have been at the property for at least a few hours after that. So, in all almost 12 hours.

In this case, the only person who might offer opposing testimony to those who were actually involved in CV's murder was the neighbor who'd offered help and he hadn't been inside the house. CV couldn't refute what AxC, LV, or TR had to say because he was the dead body on the floor. So, it would seem that officers would need to reconstruct events with the physical evidence serving as the ONLY voice potentially opposing that of the people involved in his murder.

It is true there was a history of contention in their divorce/separation, but that is only ONE piece of the puzzle and if it was considered at all, it would seem to me that it would serve to point a finger at who gained by the death. And particularly so in consideration of AxC's criminal history where LV's husbands are involved. However, newspaper reports the day of the shooting seem to dismiss it as the consequence of a domestic dispute (as though multiple shooting of a man is the natural consequence of such a dispute), even as they say the investigation is ongoing.

The short time before the scene is turned over is very troubling. It allowed for the raucous pool party, which evidenced how extremely odd and callous these people were, but one can't help but wonder what was lost by not conducting a thorough reconstruction of events, led by the physical evidence, rather than whatever came out of those odd, callous people's mouths.

The best hope is that these investigators and any detectives they called worked very fast and were not just negligent. ETA: Whether they were seems an open question at this point.
The thing that gives me the most pause in bad mouthing Chandler PD is that K&LW have said they flew out to Chandler just a few days after Charles was killed and met with investigators. She has said they never believed the self-defense story, and has repeatedly stated she has no complaints with the work of these departments. I figure she knows more of the specifics than we do. But the reports we have certainly make the investigation seem..... casual, to say the least.

I just can't believe Alex was still outside a jail in December.

Just like I can't believe Chad is still outside a jail today.
 
You may be right about some of your "Nah's" then. Three hours is not very long for a thorough investigation at the scene, particularly if only an hour of it occurs AFTER the primary witnesses have been interviewed and given their (in parts, conflicting) statements in separate interview rooms.

I'm particularly struck by the absence of a lot of blood at the scene (at least it appears that way in the body cam footage). At least four shots from a fairly powerful handgun and there's a body, but not blood spill and splatter all over the place (walls, floor, wall mirrors, clothing of shooter) as one might expect and the absence of which one would think would compel a lot of questions and some detailed investigation. That seems like a red flag to me. If there has been attempted cleanup, that is intent to conceal, which is incriminating.

Two of the primary victims to the conflict (and potentially the shooting itself) plus another individual who was present fled the scene and only two of them returned later, after police arrived. Another red flag. What evidence may have disappeared during that trip away? What might JJ have voluntarily uttered and what might have been LV's response had he remained on scene?

AxC has a criminal history of having assaulted one of LV's previous husbands. So, one would think THAT knowledge would introduce suspicion into anything he might say about self-defense where LV's husbands are concerned. Another critical red flag.

IIRC, in the Jennifer Dulos case, where there was NOT a body and the scene had been substantially cleaned, officers arrived at the scene around 7PM, called in detectives almost immediately and a crime scene processing unit shortly after that and they continued investigating throughout the night. Some of the search warrants served in association with the criminal processing of that scene and with the vehicle involved in removing the body from the scene were authorized at 3:30 the next morning. So, LE must have been at the property for at least a few hours after that. So, in all almost 12 hours.

In this case, the only person who might offer opposing testimony to those who were actually involved in CV's murder was the neighbor who'd offered help and he hadn't been inside the house. CV couldn't refute what AxC, LV, or TR had to say because he was the dead body on the floor. So, it would seem that officers would need to reconstruct events with the physical evidence serving as the ONLY voice potentially opposing that of the people involved in his murder.

It is true there was a history of contention in their divorce/separation, but that is only ONE piece of the puzzle and if it was considered at all, it would seem to me that it would serve to point a finger at who gained by the death. And particularly so in consideration of AxC's criminal history where LV's husbands are involved. However, newspaper reports the day of the shooting seem to dismiss it as the consequence of a domestic dispute (as though multiple shooting of a man is the natural consequence of such a dispute), even as they say the investigation is ongoing.

The short time before the scene is turned over is very troubling. It allowed for the raucous pool party, which evidenced how extremely odd and callous these people were, but one can't help but wonder what was lost by not conducting a thorough reconstruction of events, led by the physical evidence, rather than whatever came out of those odd, callous people's mouths.

The best hope is that these investigators and any detectives they called worked very fast and were not just negligent. ETA: Whether they were seems an open question at this point.

There is another factor at play here too. Remember LVD is friends with JM. I am sure she may have mentioned this at the crime scene too, or possibly some of the officers that responded actually were aware of this.

This would have a direct influence on the case, and how they approached their jobs. This could be what LVD was counting on. LEO would be more willing to trust her, and give her the benefit of the doubt.

This may have led to cutting a lot of corners, and just going through the motions, if LEO felt strongly at the time, that LVD was being honest with them, and had a reason to trust her.

the reality is, we don't know if that is the case, but I suspect that is a possibility.

MOO
 
The thing that gives me the most pause in bad mouthing Chandler PD is that K&LW have said they flew out to Chandler just a few days after Charles was killed and met with investigators. She has said they never believed the self-defense story, and has repeatedly stated she has no complaints with the work of these departments. I figure she knows more of the specifics than we do. But the reports we have certainly make the investigation seem..... casual, to say the least.

I just can't believe Alex was still outside a jail in December.

Just like I can't believe Chad is still outside a jail today.

KW and LW seem like savvy people and would have been highly motivated to see a thorough investigation into the murder of CV, so IMO if they say that Chandler LE didn't believe the self-defense story and that they had no complaints about their work, then there is probably much we aren't privy to. Perhaps Chandler LE's investigation into the shooting of CV and their doubts about what they were hearing from AxC, LV, and TR, as well as the claims CV had been making in divorce documents and to his friends and family, raised questions about other, earlier events (attack upon JR, death of JR) and started leading them down the path of possible criminal conspiracy way back in July 2019.

There is another factor at play here too. Remember LVD is friends with JM. I am sure she may have mentioned this at the crime scene too, or possibly some of the officers that responded actually were aware of this.

This would have a direct influence on the case, and how they approached their jobs. This could be what LVD was counting on. LEO would be more willing to trust her, and give her the benefit of the doubt.

This may have led to cutting a lot of corners, and just going through the motions, if LEO felt strongly at the time, that LVD was being honest with them, and had a reason to trust her.

the reality is, we don't know if that is the case, but I suspect that is a possibility.

MOO


LVD may have been hoping to count on it, but we don't have information that would support the claim that LV's friendship with JM had or would have direct influence on the case investigation or outcome. It seems pure speculation driven by concern that, on the surface, this investigation appeared inadequate.

IIRC, JM resigned from the force after a series of 90-day probationary periods; he wasn't hired on as a permanent member of LE. We have no way of knowing, but it's possible other members of LE thought JM was as big a chest-beating blowhard as I do and that any attempt by him or friends of his to influence a case would have been unwelcome. MOO.
 
Well @DI_Isokawa it looks like either method could have been detected by autopsy IMO, but not sure how embalming and burial for 2 months would impact the ability to detect either method at autopsy. Please keep applying your excellent analytical skills to this question!


Suffocating and Smothering

"If suffocation or smothering has taken place then the eyes of the deceased will be bloodshot; this is a common way of accurately determining that one of these methods has been employed"

"Histopathological effects of MG include multi-organ tissue injury"

Toxicological Effects of Malachite Green - PubMed

Agreed, like ethylene glycol. But risperidone could be used to make somebody sleepy enough that suffocation with a pillow would be simple. Just speculating.
 
People get out of a 72 hour hold when they sign themselves out. He'd have to petition the courts over and over to keep her in after 72 hours or longer. 72 doesn't always mean 72. It's a long legal process in AZ. Anyone over 18 and over
can sign themselves out. Doesn't mean in anyway LV was considered normal or with no mental condition after 3 hours. The patients who resist, sign themselves out.

It's a long process and takes time to learn how to keep your loved one in when they need real help. Petition petition! jmo
 
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I think he is just citing the conspiracy case. It takes two to conspire.




I bet that's it exactly, tresir. That email predates Tammy's death, and it helps establish that the CD/LV relationship existed prior to her death.
They could also be looking to see if CV ever sent or drafted anything to Tammi. I thought he mentioned to AdC he was considering calling her.
 
But Alex was an accomplished criminal ...
In my mind Alex is more complicated. Before 8 a.m. on July 11, 2019 he hadn't to my knowledge done much more criminal activity than taze JR who he (allegedly) thought was sexually abusing his very young niece. But in the 4 months following 8a.m. July 11, 2019 he could be responsible for murder or attempted murder of CV, TD, BB, and maybe JJ and TR?

I know he had problems with the IRS but it is not clear to me if that was his parents using his name and his credit because they had already trashed their name and their credit.

I'm not disagreeing that he was involved and if he was still alive should be in prison. I see him as the fall guy. Just wondering what others know about his previous legal problems.

MOO.
 
The thing that gives me the most pause in bad mouthing Chandler PD is that K&LW have said they flew out to Chandler just a few days after Charles was killed and met with investigators. She has said they never believed the self-defense story, and has repeatedly stated she has no complaints with the work of these departments. I figure she knows more of the specifics than we do. But the reports we have certainly make the investigation seem..... casual, to say the least.
RSBM

There were 5 people in that house on the morning of July 11. Four of 5 are dead or missing. CPD are running out of people to charge with a crime so I have to assume they don't have anything on Lori.
 
I noticed that picture of LVD in court, the horizontal thick stripes of the jumpsuit are not flattering on LVD. But, LVD is beginning to look a bit porky. She is definitely gaining weight.

Gasp! She couldn't be preggers?!

She is 47...but who knows? Probably not, just all of that healthy prison food.
We discussed this and some thought it might be a bullet proof vest underneath. But I agree with you she looked chunkier. When she was extradited she didnt look so big though.
 
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