Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[Patch Tuesday]

Police searching for Rexburg children believed to be in serious danger | East Idaho News

I believe this is going to be a more complicated case than it looks on the surface. The children's mother (Lori Wallows) recently married a man (Chad Daybell) a few weeks after his wife died. It was presumed the late wife had died of natural causes but was exhumed recently and her death is now being investigated.
The new wife's husband was shot in a family argument earlier this year:

Chandler Police identify man who was shot dead during family fight

The husband and wife are not cooperating with police and have since vanished.

ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE*NO DISCUSSION


Timeline Links (Update 7):
Part I (1968 - 2017)
Part II (Dec 2017 - 10 July 2019)
Part III (11 July 2019)
Part IV (12 July 2019 - 30 Nov 2019)
Part V (December 2019)
Part VI (January 2020)
Part VII (February 2020)


Thread #1 Thread #2 Thread #3 Thread #4 Thread #5 Thread #6 Thread #7 Thread #8 Thread #9 Thread #10 Thread #11 Thread #12 Thread #13 Thread #14 Thread #15 Thread #16 Thread #17 Thread #18 Thread #19 Thread #20 Thread #21 Thread #22 Thread #23 Thread #24 Thread #25 Thread #26 Thread #27 Thread #28 Thread #29 Thread #30 Thread #31

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

This thread is dedicated to discussion of two missing kids, JJ and Tylee.

The thread does not exist to chit chat about your own religious doctrines, discuss temples, tithing, BYU, physical appearance, etc. Forty seven of such off topic posts have just been removed.

Do not ignore Moderator warnings.

Stay on topic or thread reply bans or TOs will be issued.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Before a new thread is made, I wanted to ask if it would be appropriate/okay to have this link from East Idaho News at the beginning of each thread, in addition to the time line from Gardener and the Media thread link.
It is a consistently updated list of all the stories they have run in (reverse) chronological order and I have found it to be a good reference.
Daybell Case Stories | East Idaho News

 

[Diddian]

Melani's father remarried after the divorce. Why wouldn't her stepmother have been a mother figure for her?

I would imagine most any child who loses a biological mother early in life maintains a curiosity about that lost parent as well as a yearning in their heart for recovering that loss even if that child's stepmother loved and nurtured that child as though it was her own. So, I would completely understand if Melani felt that way.

What I wouldn't understand is if the Cox tribe used that natural curiosity and yearning to build up a false image about that lost mother and to poison Melani against those who actually raised her. That would be self serving and predatory. I don't know whether this happened, but based on behavior observed to date, I would not be surprised to find it was so.

 

[natsound]

Without medication? We don't know that. Without financial support? We don't know that either. Lori might be able to say that she gave a lump sum to a caregiving family and will settle up on the other end. Remote location? We don't know where they are. Voluntarily? It's clear that young Tylee loves JJ like a mom. If she could be convinced he was in harm's way, then maybe she could be coerced into hiding with him. This is a discussion forum and I believe Kona has brought forth some very compelling arguments.

I fail to see any compelling argument for the children missing, when so many people linked to the suspect in their disappearance have died mysteriously, when that suspect believed the children had been possessed by zombies and had turned "dark".... I could go on and on.

They will be found, and I hope it's soon.

 

[Monroe2]

Isn't Alex's autopsy results supposed to be released today?

We need a new thread.

You are telling me, desperate for one!

 

[Alpha Bravo]

Just by way of information, St George is definitely not remote. It is a town where a lot of seniors move because it is warm. It is "the place" to retire in terms of Utah.

Been there many many times. Are Barry and Janis there now?

 

[Onsdag]

Lori Vallow received threats and is protecting her children, according to mom, sister

Here is the 14min version from the evening news. It includes the two shorter teasers from earlier today.

Couple takeaways - not in order:

• They didn't know about Lori's wedding, heard about it on the news
• They found out about AxC death from the police, didn't know he got married or that he'd moved back to AZ
• They don't believe she's been brainwashed
• They don't believe any of the fringe religious beliefs
• Janis suggested that Lori take a picture of the kids with a newspaper - that was her advice (via a friend in HI)
• Kay's/CV's brothers were also threatening (NEW!) at least I'm assuming that's who's brothers are being referred to.
• CV was great - never said a negative thing about Lori until last year
• CV tried to get Lori ex-communicated from the Church
• CV was cheating - filed for divorce, but tried to get her back the whole time

Thank you.

Having watched the 14 minute video, I think my biggest takeaway is that Lori's family, her mother and sister, are victims in this too. It seemed clear to me that they do love Tylee and JJ. They are heartbroken that this whole mess is what it is. They were clearly devastated by the loss of Alex.

What I find perturbing is how much Lori and Alex have kept them in the dark and not part of their lives. They didn't find out that Alex had been married or moved back to Idaho until the police informed them of his death. Out of 5 marriages Summer, her own sister, had never been invited to any of them. Her mother says she was invited to at least one of them, but never attended? Whatever the case, they never even found out about the marriage to Chad (and obviously wouldn't have been invited) until after the fact, and likely from the news instead of from Lori by the sounds of it. What kind of familial relationship do these things reveal? Not a very close or loving one. And yet mother and sister are desperately trying to defend Lori, against all reason and evidence. They want to believe in the best, that Lori wouldn't, couldn't do any of the things that she is accused of, or that all the evidence points to. They don't want to entertain those thoughts. And who would? They've been caught up and swept up in this whole mess. Blindsided by it.

Yes, I believe they are victims of Lori and Chad's tragic and selfish actions. And my heart breaks that they're caught up in the position they are. Eventually the truth will come out and they will be forced to face the reality of what their daughter and sister has done. I suspect they already know it but don't want to acknowledge it (the nervous and over the top laughs seem like more of an attempt to convince themselves rather than the reporter asking questions). I really feel for them.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

I don't know if anyone has answered your question yet as I'm still catching up. No other photos that I know of have been released. However, there is a live feed of Yellowstone on the day of question posted on YouTube which may show the group present. Thanks to @RexburgSleuth for identifying the possible group in the video:

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #25

I also viewed the video and am 95% positive that's them:

ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #25

Here's the actual video feed from that day:

Thanks to RexburgSleuth for doing the heavy lifting on this and Onsdag for reminding us of it and including the link. I am including screen grabs of what I believe RexburgSleuth and Onsdag are referring to as possible groups as well as some earlier shots that I think are possibilities. I have pasted the timestamp into the grabs to make it easier for folks to go back to the original.

 

[FindingJoLee]

Thank you.

Having watched the 14 minute video, I think my biggest takeaway is that Lori's family, her mother and sister, are victims in this too. It seemed clear to me that they do love Tylee and JJ. They are heartbroken that this whole mess is what it is. They were clearly devastated by the loss of Alex.

What I find perturbing is how much Lori and Alex have kept them in the dark and not part of their lives. They didn't find out that Alex had been married or moved back to Idaho until the police informed them of his death. Out of 5 marriages Summer, her own sister, had never been invited to any of them. Her mother says she was invited to at least one of them, but never attended? Whatever the case, they never even found out about the marriage to Chad (and obviously wouldn't have been invited) until after the fact, and likely from the news instead of from Lori by the sounds of it. What kind of familial relationship do these things reveal? Not a very close or loving one. And yet mother and sister are desperately trying to defend Lori, against all reason and evidence. They want to believe in the best, that Lori wouldn't, couldn't do any of the things that she is accused of, or that all the evidence points to. They don't want to entertain those thoughts. And who would? They've been caught up and swept up in this whole mess. Blindsided by it.

Yes, I believe they are victims of Lori and Chad's tragic and selfish actions. And my heart breaks that they're caught up in the position they are. Eventually the truth will come out and they will be forced to face the reality of what their daughter and sister has done. I suspect they already know it but don't want to acknowledge it (the nervous and over the top laughs seem like more of an attempt to convince themselves rather than the reporter asking questions). I really feel for them.

You're right, nobody would want to face the truths about what Lori (and Alex) have done. It would be awful to live with that. I know for myself as a parent, the ONE THING I always hope above all else is that my child won't be a hurtful person. I can take a lot, but a child who causes pain or injury to other people is really devastating.

They are hard people for me to have sympathy for for a lot of reasons, but I appreciate that others can feel for them right now, and as much as I am completely frustrated and angered by them -- I do understand that they, too, have experienced more than their share of pain.

 

[findher8]

Melani's father remarried after the divorce. Why wouldn't her stepmother have been a mother figure for her?

Didn't she say something in her 31st birthday post on Facebook about not forgiving her dad and a bunch of stuff about losing her mom so early? If she was angry at her dad, she probably didn't welcome the stepmom? Just considering options. Either way, Chad was playing to a vulnerability to win her loyalty.

 

[Spartygirl]

Thanks to RexburgSleuth for doing the heavy lifting on this and Onsdag for reminding us of it and including the link. I am including screen grabs of what I believe RexburgSleuth and Onsdag are referring to as possible groups as well as some earlier shots that I think are possibilities. I have pasted the timestamp into the grabs to make it easier for folks to go back to the original.

Thank you for posting these for us

 

[Spartygirl]

You're right, nobody would want to face the truths about what Lori (and Alex) have done. It would be awful to live with that. I know for myself as a parent, the ONE THING I always hope above all else is that my child won't be a hurtful person. I can take a lot, but a child who causes pain or injury to other people is really devastating.

They are hard people for me to have sympathy for for a lot of reasons, but I appreciate that others can feel for them right now, and as much as I am completely frustrated and angered by them -- I do understand that they, too, have experienced more than their share of pain.

BBM- I agree 1000%
I am having a hard time feeling any sympathy for them but as a mom and grandma and sister myself, I understand where they would want to defend LVD.
I also think they might be AFRAID to say anything negative about her.
Probably Afraid for their lives.
I know I would be considering all the deaths that surround LVD. JMO

 

[Owutatangledweb]

Thank you.

Having watched the 14 minute video, I think my biggest takeaway is that Lori's family, her mother and sister, are victims in this too. It seemed clear to me that they do love Tylee and JJ. They are heartbroken that this whole mess is what it is. They were clearly devastated by the loss of Alex.

What I find perturbing is how much Lori and Alex have kept them in the dark and not part of their lives. They didn't find out that Alex had been married or moved back to Idaho until the police informed them of his death. Out of 5 marriages Summer, her own sister, had never been invited to any of them. Her mother says she was invited to at least one of them, but never attended? Whatever the case, they never even found out about the marriage to Chad (and obviously wouldn't have been invited) until after the fact, and likely from the news instead of from Lori by the sounds of it. What kind of familial relationship do these things reveal? Not a very close or loving one. And yet mother and sister are desperately trying to defend Lori, against all reason and evidence. They want to believe in the best, that Lori wouldn't, couldn't do any of the things that she is accused of, or that all the evidence points to. They don't want to entertain those thoughts. And who would? They've been caught up and swept up in this whole mess. Blindsided by it.

Yes, I believe they are victims of Lori and Chad's tragic and selfish actions. And my heart breaks that they're caught up in the position they are. Eventually the truth will come out and they will be forced to face the reality of what their daughter and sister has done. I suspect they already know it but don't want to acknowledge it (the nervous and over the top laughs seem like more of an attempt to convince themselves rather than the reporter asking questions). I really feel for them.

My read on it was that Mama Bear wanted to clear the family name and attempted to distance the family just enough from what was going on to sound reasonable and, at the same time, defend her daughter. The sister was more on the defense of Lori / this is America wagon. The sister also said things about threats (implied they were messages she had seen prior to Charles' death) which certainly have already been proved or disproved by LE and we just don't know it.

 

[indicolite22]

Thank you.

Having watched the 14 minute video, I think my biggest takeaway is that Lori's family, her mother and sister, are victims in this too. It seemed clear to me that they do love Tylee and JJ. They are heartbroken that this whole mess is what it is. They were clearly devastated by the loss of Alex.

What I find perturbing is how much Lori and Alex have kept them in the dark and not part of their lives. They didn't find out that Alex had been married or moved back to Idaho until the police informed them of his death. Out of 5 marriages Summer, her own sister, had never been invited to any of them. Her mother says she was invited to at least one of them, but never attended? Whatever the case, they never even found out about the marriage to Chad (and obviously wouldn't have been invited) until after the fact, and likely from the news instead of from Lori by the sounds of it. What kind of familial relationship do these things reveal? Not a very close or loving one. And yet mother and sister are desperately trying to defend Lori, against all reason and evidence. They want to believe in the best, that Lori wouldn't, couldn't do any of the things that she is accused of, or that all the evidence points to. They don't want to entertain those thoughts. And who would? They've been caught up and swept up in this whole mess. Blindsided by it.

Yes, I believe they are victims of Lori and Chad's tragic and selfish actions. And my heart breaks that they're caught up in the position they are. Eventually the truth will come out and they will be forced to face the reality of what their daughter and sister has done. I suspect they already know it but don't want to acknowledge it (the nervous and over the top laughs seem like more of an attempt to convince themselves rather than the reporter asking questions). I really feel for them.

Lori's sister and mother have always been on Lori's side. They considered Charles Vallow the bad guy when Lori started acting up in early 2019. It was Summer who asked Alex to be present when Charles came to pick up JJ on July 11. I'd like to know more about her role in those events. On the other hand, Lori's brother Adam, who Charles was also in contact with, was able to make a different conclusion and does not appear to be sharing his mother's and sister's delusions. Colby is another example.

ETA: I admit I don't have much sympathy for Lori's family after the latest interview. IMO they mostly feel sorry for themselves and for Lori. I saw very little concern for the well-being of "those children".

 

[spandangly]

@KonaHonu thank you for responding. I guess I wasn't clear. You stated (RS& bold BM)
"spouses and minor children have rights that supercede beneficiary declarations in many situations.

This explanation does NOT make Lori a saint but it could explain everything. She's still a money-grubbing (word I wont use) but it is consistent with her moving to Idaho and not telling anyone and also with putting the kids in hiding to protect them. It also explains why she would no produce them even for law enforcement."

I genuinely don't understand how her possibly having rights to the insurance money would lead to: moving to Idaho, hiding the kids, and not cooperating with LE. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to walk myself through the thought process and I'd appreciate your help.

Recourse for wanting some of the money would be to file something with an attorney. She has yet to do that. Even now, while she's sitting in jail and her attorney has time to file lots of ridiculous documents. Still not a Post-It about the policy. If this is a game-changer to the narrative, I don't see it.

And my understanding is that the money was given to Kay to take care of JJ, so I can't imagine Kay would withhold the money as long as she had evidence it was being used for his maintenance. But to expect the administrator of any "trust money" for a child to hand it out without some sort of oversight involving the child would, in my opinion, be ludicrous.

She may have feared for her children, whether warranted or not. I can grant that. That might lead one to hide them, move. But she has never claimed this. She has also never asked police for protection for her
children.

We have seen footage of her involved with LE--she doesn't indicate any aversion to them. In fact, she seems able to bend them to her will. And we know she has local LE "ties"--meaning, at the very least, advice from a former officer. I'm also of the opinion, based on her extensive custody battles, that she knows grandparents have essentially no legal rights to grandchildren. She still has not shown any evidence that she or her children are in danger or any sort of custody dispute. She has a lawyer. After all this time, no claims. Also, we know LE likely has access to all her texts and emails over the last 18+ months. Not a peep or a leak of any threats to their safety--in fact, the opposite: that there is no custody dispute and the children are in danger in their current situation. And I don't think anyone would be swayed by even a few messages from a frustrated KW trying to reach the grandson for whom she is supposed to be providing. I also don't buy the "she could have done this more quietly" line--how?! After months of silence, Kay finally asked for a welfare check--not a national manhunt, arrest, or months of media! And the kids were already gone! This is literally all because of Lori and she could end it with one smidge of evidence. No one else to blame.

I'm trying to find some sense, but I see zero evidence for any of these claims. And not providing a single text or email in her defense that she is being threatened makes that ring hollow. She doesn't have to wait for trial. She has no reason to sit in jail, apart from the children she loves, and spend all her money when she can resolve this without suffering any of those losses.

So I guess that leaves me with, why would she sit in jail, away from her children, wasting money on this horrible lawyer if she doesn't have to? Why would she blow this up into a national manhunt if she didn't have to? She's had plenty of opportunity to quash this. Does she think if she provided proof of life she'll compromise their location? She could move again, immediately, and we would leave her alone this time, and possibly even provide police protection, or put those threatening her behind bars. She could flip the situation and put others on the defensive. She hasn't. I can't see any of her actions making sense as a response to threats or custody, even to a deluded mind. Her lawyers, certainly, have counseled her to end this, and provided the means to do so in a way that would benefit her and any living children? Wouldn't ending this circus be best for the children she claims to care about?

I love exploring all the possibilities, I just need help seeing this as one.

 

[StrangerThanFiction]

I’d really like to know where the money comes from to fund these attorneys.

Clearly, it’s all those years of back taxes that BC and JC never paid the government. They needed all the dough to fund their family fiascos!

 

[squareandrabbet]

Justin Lum Fox 10 Phoenix
1 hr ·
“By looking at it I don’t look at this as someone that kind of threw this together overnight,” said Cristina Rosetti, Ph.D. in Religious Studies.

We have reached out to Mark Means for comment on the religious documents sent by Chad Daybell to Lori Vallow. No response yet.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=794342474428639

... Well, all I can say is, these revelations certainly do support Ian’s contention that Melani has been gaslighted by Chad and Lori to the point where she can no longer tell fact from fantasy. I should think being told this nonsense about multiple past lives and one wherein she was Chad and Lori’s daughter (!), no less, is pretty effective brainwashing.

I also think that this shows Lori to be a True Believer in this BS, notwithstanding arguments about living out the rapture in Kauai. I can understand the jury still being out on Chad, considering he is the drafter of this nonsense it could go either way.

You do know that one LEO officer is actually on Lori's side? He is part of the religious "group" that she has belonged to. It bares in mind that this is possibly one reason why the death of Charles Vallow was not investigated as a murder.

yes, we’re aware. We have been prohibited from sleuthing this person on thread.

Snipped...

If you are that out of touch with your children, it's probably not wise to try to convince anyone that you KNOW your child isn't capable of {insert literally anything here.}

+1000, unfortunately!!

 

[Onsdag]

Without medication? We don't know that. Without financial support? We don't know that either. Lori might be able to say that she gave a lump sum to a caregiving family and will settle up on the other end. Remote location? We don't know where they are. Voluntarily? It's clear that young Tylee loves JJ like a mom. If she could be convinced he was in harm's way, then maybe she could be coerced into hiding with him. This is a discussion forum and I believe Kona has brought forth some very compelling arguments.

Without medication: Yes. According to the police affidavit JJ's prescription hasn't been filled in some time.

Without financial support: Yes. According to the police affidavit there is absolutely no evidence to prove Lori has paid anyone to care for the kids. Sure, it's ever so remotely possible she paid someone untraceable cash up front to care for her children for an indeterminate amount of time. But the likelihood of that is astronomically low, and all evidence suggests otherwise.

Remote location: Yes. Nobody, including family or friends, have seen the kids in 8 months. And remember, there is still an active $10,000 reward for finding them. Which means, assuming they're still alive, they would have to be kept in a remote location, or among people who aren't tempted by the reward money at all. Or publicity as being the ones who found them. Or who aren't concerned about the legal repercussions of harboring the missing and endangered children. Or who could care less about doing the right thing and reuniting them with their family members who are deeply troubled and concerned for them.

Yes, let's discuss it.

 

[squareandrabbet]

@KonaHonu thank you for responding. I guess I wasn't clear. You stated (RS& bold BM)
"spouses and minor children have rights that supercede beneficiary declarations in many situations.

This explanation does NOT make Lori a saint but it could explain everything. She's still a money-grubbing (word I wont use) but it is consistent with her moving to Idaho and not telling anyone and also with putting the kids in hiding to protect them. It also explains why she would no produce them even for law enforcement."

I genuinely don't understand how her possibly having rights to the insurance money would lead to: moving to Idaho, hiding the kids, and not cooperating with LE. I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm trying to walk myself through the thought process and I'd appreciate your help.

Recourse for wanting some of the money would be to file something with an attorney. She has yet to do that. Even now, while she's sitting in jail and her attorney has time to file lots of ridiculous documents. Still not a Post-It about the policy. If this is a game-changer to the narrative, I don't see it.

And my understanding is that the money was given to Kay to take care of JJ, so I can't imagine Kay would withhold the money as long as she had evidence it was being used for his maintenance. But to expect the administrator of any "trust money" for a child to hand it out without some sort of oversight involving the child would, in my opinion, be ludicrous.

She may have feared for her children, whether warranted or not. I can grant that. That might lead one to hide them, move. But she has never claimed this. She has also never asked police for protection for her
children.

We have seen footage of her involved with LE--she doesn't indicate any aversion to them. In fact, she seems able to bend them to her will. And we know she has local LE "ties"--meaning, at the very least, advice from a former officer. I'm also of the opinion, based on her extensive custody battles, that she knows grandparents have essentially no legal rights to grandchildren. She still has not shown any evidence that she or her children are in danger or any sort of custody dispute. She has a lawyer. After all this time, no claims. Also, we know LE likely has access to all her texts and emails over the last 18+ months. Not a peep or a leak of any that's to their safety--in fact, the opposite: that there is no custody dispute and the children are in danger in their current situation. And I don't think anyone would be swayed by even a few messages from a frustrated KW trying to reach the grandson for whom she is supposed to be providing. I also don't buy the "she could have done this more quietly" line--how?! After months of silence, Kay finally asked for a welfare check--not a national manhunt, arrest, or months of media! And the kids were already gone! This is literally all because of Lori and she could end it with one smidge of evidence. No one else to blame.

I'm trying to find some sense, but I see zero evidence for any of these claims. And not providing a single text or email in her defense that she is being threatened makes that ring hollow. She doesn't have to wait for trial. She has no reason to sit in jail, apart from the children she loves, and spend all her money when she can resolve this without suffering any of those losses.

So I guess that leaves me with, why would she sit in jail, away from her children, wasting money on this horrible lawyer if she doesn't have to? Why would she blow this up into a national manhunt if she didn't have to? She's had plenty of opportunity to quash this. Does she think if she provided proof of life she'll compromise their location? She could move again, immediately, and we would leave her alone this time, and possibly even provide police protection, or put those threatening her behind bars. She could flip the situation and put others on the defensive. She hasn't. I can't see any of this making sense, even to a deluded mind. Her lawyers, certainly, have counseled her to end this, and provided the means to do so in a way that would benefit her and any living children?

you’re absolutely right, another +1000 . I really hate to see well meaning folks breaking their brain over Lori’s ‘talk is cheap’ BS. It is legit the easiest no-skin-off mouthful of nonsense anyone can proffer. I can’t remember a crime where some random ‘all will be clear in time’ fortune-telling nonsense bore any type of fruit either. This isn’t ‘Undercover Mother’. Lori isn’t Vinnie Terranova.