Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[Sorelle19]

Kona, the community property life insurance proceeds discussion has shown me that Lori had incentive to keep JJ alive. If she had Charles killed for the money and knew she had a realistic claim to that money if she retained custody of JJ, then there's the incentive.

Even if the beneficiary change was kosher, it would still be subject to property laws.

Regarding threats, I think we all realize the Woodcocks are wonderful, caring people who aren't the threatening type. It's possible Lori made up the idea of threats to help her with an eventual challenge to the $1 million, and equally possible she shared those false claims with family and supporters.

You've stated that you think that LD, CD and AC were complicit in TD's murder and BB's attempted murder and pointed out that the life insurance incentive doesn't negate their other actions. Your postings have been respectful, you've provided links as opposed to wild conjecture, and I appreciate your postings.

 

[Tortoise]

Morgan Loew Interview Transcript. Split into three parts because of limits on attachments.

MP = Melani Pawlowski

IP = Ian Pawlowski

(numbers in brackets refer to my numbered screenshots attached, capturing facial expressions)

PART 1 OF 3

How close are you to Lori?

MP: My mom passed away when I was 9 and Lori is one of the closest things to her and how much love uh my mom showed me. So she’s a, a friend, a, um, almost like a mother to me, and an aunt and somebody that I, I love.

Do you think that she is being unfairly portrayed?

MP: It’s just not Lori that I see. I see a lot of hatred in the media and a lot of judgement, I see a lot of lies, I don’t um know where my cousins are, her children JJ and Tylee, and I love all of them and I know uh she’s doing whatever she can to keep her kids safe and I hope we can see how that turns out um in the future as truth continues to come forward.

Did anything seem strange to you when you moved out there, about the way Lori was acting, or Chad?

MP: Well I moved out there right after um my ex took my children from me. Um there’s a lot of lies out there that I’ve abandoned my children and it’s simply not true. I didn’t move down there to be in a cult, I didn’t move down there to be solely by Lori – Lori is very independent and does her own thing and I had my own reasons for, you know, kind of having a fresh start and trying to work through my custody battle with my ex.

I think I’ve reported that you followed her to Rexburg. Is that not accurate?

MP: It’s not. I mean um I, I had re.. my own reasons for going and I love my aunt Lori, and it absolutely was a benefit to be close to her, she’s been somebody that’s given me unconditional love.

You got out there, your aunt is there but your, you don’t see your cousins. Was that, was that strange?

[1:46 – very nervous and short of breath with next answer]

MP: Prior to their move, uh, she was moving for their safety, and for those threatening her and um to keep JJ and Tylee safe, um, this was, this was a big move to try to you know, kind of move forward after, after Charles was shot, and to remain safe with the kids, so, as soon as I move up there in November, I um see some of their stuff but I don’t see them there, and Lori says that they’re, they’re safe and they’re doing everything they can to keep, um, them from the people that are trying to harm them – I believe that.

IP: It was a shock finding out that um Chad and Lori are/were gone, kids are missing, people are, people’s doors are being kicked down because they can’t find the kids.

What led you to put those thoughts down on paper and then end up going even to the investigators?

IP: So I mean I guess it all began when my mom called me, um, I was at work one afternoon and my ex-wife had called my mom (video is spliced here) What she said to my mom was you know it was concerning, she’s saying you know that uh, Melani’s ex-husband Brandon is making claims that she’s in a cult, that Lori’s in a cult, Chad’s a cult leader, um and, you know, that they, you know, tried to kill him, that they plotted and killed Charles. (video spliced) and I said okay I’ll go, I’ll go sit down with police. I didn’t know the FBI would be there. But um, you know, I was open to sharing everything that I knew at that point. And so at that point I, yeah, I shared, I shared all the information I have and I was hoping that I could, I was hoping the FBI, because the FBI was there, they would have information already, that there would be something that they knew that I could say that would make sense to them. That would, you know, be a piece to a puzzle instead of becoming a framework for them to build this investigation on. And it seems like the information I shared with them turned into this nationwide just frenzy. You know, so they gave me a recording device, you know, I recorded con.., some conversations with Chad and Lori.

Did you have reservations about recording those conversations? I mean this is your new, this is your new wife and this is your new family and now you’re going to record them, secretly.

IP: Right. (1) Yeah I mean there was a little bit of hesitation (2) but at the end of the day I saw that as the fastest way to get from point A to point B nobody knows where these kids are, they’re, you know w.., there’s serious concern about their safety. I’m (sic) just married Melani and I love her with all my heart and I wanna get her out of this. Uum and I saw that as the fastest way to do it. If I could get some concrete evidence for law enforcement for them to be able to say this is where Tylee and JJ are or this is what’s happened to them, it’s a open and shut case and we’re done, we move on with our lives, but it didn’t play out that way. For two weeks I’ve been thinking this through and looking at anything, looking for anything I could to try to figure out where these kids are and there’s just no evidence, there’s nothing, trying to figure out anything bad that’s going on. And I don’t, you know, I couldn’t find anything, I couldn’t find anything aside from just baseless accusations coming from her ex-husband. At the end of the day I put it into a memo when I conv.., when I confessed this to her. You know and I need to protect her to the best of my ability from the damage that I could, that I, that I have done to her. So I write down everything that I can remember saying to the FBI, how I explained it to ‘em, what her fears were, what my fears were. I write it all down, and give it to her lawyers.
ss1, ss2

 

[Tortoise]

PART 2 OF 3

How did you take that news?

MP: As big of a betrayal (3) as it sounds and felt in the moment too I have to look at the entirety of it, and he’s recording my conversations and there’s, there’s nothing with th..that, and there’s nothing between Chad and Lori that was said that was, you know, this was, this was early in December (4) and so um I think it shows, if you read the entire document (5) it starts out I’m (6) terrified, (7) and then it ends with there was nothing there and the reason this document is so important is because it’s basically, we’re trying to clear this up because this whole case is based on this, this document and this outline, of, you know, bits and pieces taken from everywhere. Um, you know, there’s a part in there speaking about um, you know, my kids, if I had a nightmare that something had happened to my kids I haven’t seen them since October 9th and you know he was taking everything so literally and when I first saw this document it was shocking like explain this, like I can’t explain it, and so, it’s good to come forward and explain where that comes from in the context and to look at it in its entirety.
ss 3 to 7

 

[Tortoise]

PART 3 OF 3


Do you think that Tylee and JJ were in danger, do you think that Lori thought they were zombies, do you think that they, that she thought that their spirits had left them?

MP: I didn’t think they were in danger, um and didn’t have those fears and doubts until this welfare check um and then Chad and Lori left I didn’t have contact with them, and I’m absolutely worried. I knew the threats that Lori had been um getting and I don’t know what’s going on and so I was, you know, being in a new marriage, I’m kind of dumping on him I’m worried about this, I’m worried about this, meanwhile we have all these false accusations and questions about this supposed shooting that uh Brandon Boudreaux’s claiming that happened, and I’ve yet to see evidence and facts that comport (or come forward) with that, but um, you know, he’s, he’s adamant about, you know, that it was Alex Cox that shot at him and there’s been no evidence that I’ve seen, and for a time I worried (8) could my uncle have done that? Are you so sure? And I’ve got my own father threatening me and intimidating me with text messages and I did worry, but when it comes back to it I, I know the person Alex is, I haven’t seen any evidence and detective Pillar (sp?) on um Gilbert Police never even called Alex or you know asked him to come in for a visit.

Did you have anything to do with that shooting?

MP: Absolutely (9) not. And Brandon knows that.

It just seems like it’s like bad thing after bad thing after bad thing and the one thing that’s in common here is that Lori is involved. How can she not be involved in something bad here?

MP: I can’t attest to all those different events but I do know that Charles wa.. ha.. was there with an agenda and he was working with Brandon and with Kay and things didn’t go the way he thought, and the big question we’re not asking is why is nobody (10) asking why Charles had a $2million policy on Lori? Charles and Brandon did life insurance together and there’s a lot of, there’s a lot of things that haven’t been brought to light. Um that, things that aren’t being portrayed in the media. They’re being hidden so we can run with this cult story and you know, (11) zombies and it’s more exciting than the truth, sadly.

Do you think you’re going to see Tylee and JJ again?

MP: I do, I absolutely do, I know Lori wouldn’t ever do anything to hurt her kids. I’ve seen the pain that she’s gone through and the abuse and betrayal. I’ve seen authorities let her down, I’ve seen court systems let her down. I don’t have the answers as to why she does the things she does, and why she hasn’t spoken as to where they are, but I can’t judge her because I don’t know what she’s going through. I can only love and support her and hope for everyone to be safe.
ss 8 to 11

 

[Gardenkeep]

I'm not sure if anyone has talked about PEs and the causes since the autopsy report came out on AC. If so, then my apologies, this may be redundant.

PE (pulmonary emboli) are clots in the lungs. I spent a good 20 yrs doing PE studies in my career.

Most often, PEs begin in the deep veins, primarily in the legs. When the clots break off so to speak, they travel into the lungs, and if not treated can lead to death. PEs can develop due to inactivity such as a long drive without any breaks to stretch one's legs. That is why it is recommended that a stretch break should be taken at least every 2 hrs on a road trip.

PEs also are a risk in surgeries, and other medical treatments which keep folks immobile, and the body systems are very sluggish. I've seen this happen. They also can occur as a complication of obesity.

There are other less common causes, however I've never heard of or seen a case in which PEs were directly caused by anything nefarious. (But hey, there's always a first time!)

They can present acutely, or chronic. I recall one very sad case where I barely had time to even confirm the PE in a study, and the pt passed within five minutes. His onset of severe pain, and respiratory distress was sudden. In the opposite, I had a pt who was very calm, had been experiencing chest pain and some trouble with breathing for about 3 days before they came to the ER. Finishing up that study, she had what we a call a saddle PE. To this day it amazes me that she could even talk, much less be calm. We were able to immediately treat with blood thinners and kept her for observation. She resolved, thankfully.

The following article may be helpful in understanding how PEs work.

Causes

 

[Sorelle19]

Snipped:
"I doubt the insurance company made a mistake. Especially this size of a mistake. They were on notice of potential problems bc of the marriage on the rocks, murders, etc. This size policy change of beneficiary received top review at the home office. And approval before being implemented.

MOO, insurance companies deal in facts, not potential problems. They are corporations, not counselors. Also, $1 million in life insurance just isn't that much in today's market. Pretty common for high earners with dependents. Insurance is cheap right now, too.

 

[PoppyCarr]

When Charles filed for divorce on Feb 14, 2019 he had to swear under oath that he was an Arizona resident for the ast 90 days. Both parties would have been issued various court orders automatically. One of those would be not to transfer property or otherwise dispose of valuable property. Another would order them not to harass each other.

The timeline says they were separated but I don't recall seeing a separation order.

“One of those would be not to transfer property or otherwise dispose of valuable property.”
The life insurance is not really valuable property unless chad is dead.

 

[GiGi4277]

WHY would emergency health personnel administer Narcan to someone who has had symptoms for a week prior to becoming unconscious? What would that do to a person who is suffering a pulmonary embolism?

Sometimes it's not clear to first responders if the patient has OD'd or not, so they may administer Narcan "just in case" since he was unconscious.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

MOO, insurance companies deal in facts, not potential problems. They are corporations, not counselors. Also, $1 million in life insurance just isn't that much in today's market. Pretty common for high earners with dependents. Insurance is cheap right now, too.

CV was in the insurance business. From what I read in a previous post, he notified the company to change beneficiaries. At the same time, he advised them to be on the alert for his death under unusual circumstances. I would give him credit to let the carrier know there could be problems if and when he passed, especially under unusual circumstances.
So the fact is, the company changed the beneficiary. His wife did not have to approve the change. That’s how this entire rabbit hole started.

 

[Riverdoc]

BREAKING: Maricopa County Medical Examiner says Alex Cox died of natural causes. Autopsy report has not been released yet. #fox10phoenix

Justin Lum Fox 10 on Twitter

What??? I’ve listened to that 911 call a few times. Just what kind of “natural cause” are they suggesting? I am EAGER for the details! Btw, I really value all the posts but catching up is work!

 

[Midwestmom2019]

What??? I’ve listened to that 911 call a few times. Just what kind of “natural cause” are they suggesting? I am EAGER for the details! Btw, I really value all the posts but catching up is work!

Bilateral PE. Secondary to high blood pressure and arteriosclerosis.
I think I remembered that correctly.

Can those be induced by lethal means?

 

[CSIDreamer]

Bilateral PE. Secondary to high blood pressure and arteriosclerosis.
I think I remembered that correctly.

Can those be induced by lethal means?

My opinion, I doubt it was lethal means. As a truck driver, he had a sedentary lifestyle. It's possible his diet wasn't as great as it could be. I was looking at his height/weight/age and he really was barely overweight (13 lb over I think).

It's my opinion his surviving siblings need thorough physicals if they haven't had them. I'm not sure about the infant's cause of death, but now you have diabetes and heart issues in that family. Jmo

 

[Gardenkeep]

My opinion, I doubt it was lethal means. As a truck driver, he had a sedentary lifestyle. It's possible his diet wasn't as great as it could be. I was looking at his height/weight/age and he really was barely overweight (13 lb over I think).

It's my opinion his surviving siblings need thorough physicals if they haven't had them. I'm not sure about the infant's cause of death, but now you have diabetes and heart issues in that family. Jmo

Agreed. My less than noble self believes the real culprit here is Karma.

 

[CSIDreamer]

Agreed. My less than noble self believes the real culprit here is Karma.

Speaking of Karma. I thoroughly believe each person is entitled to proper medical care. It just struck me as ironic that Alex was given Narcan, intubated, hooked up to an EKG machine. All noted by the medical examiner.

I remember seeing a paramedic giving CPR to CV. Alex took most lifesaving measures away from CV.

Jmo

 

[Deerrun]

If Lori was afraid and moved to Rexburg to try and hide then why did she enroll JJ in school. To me that would be traceable. Why call in a Nanny for a day. If she really did put the kids in hiding why were they not allowed to take personal belongings. It just doesnt make sense, JJ would suffer a lot not having familiar things around him. Had Lori scared Tylee into believing people were after them, did Tylee agree to go into hiding to protect JJ. It doesnt seem logical.
ETA jmo

 

[cmiller8617]

Replying to transcripts part 1,2,and 3

Than you so much for doing this ! I am hearing impaired, and transcripts like this really help me to follow along. I know they are also helpful for posters to dissect parts of the interview.

Also, this interview was so much better than Dateline's snippety snip style, IMO

 

[Riverdoc]

It's not unusual for a career truck driver to suffer a pulmonary embolism (as well as atherosclerotic and hypertensive cardiovascular disease).

But, on the day following the day TD's body is exhumed? What an extraordinary coincidence.

Okay, read the East Idaho Maricopa coroner report. I agree the the atherosclerotic (plaque) vessels and subsequent mild fibrotic changes in the heart are likely prescient in many many 50yo sedentary truck drivers. DVTs , deep venous thrombi(clots) can happen if you are sedentary for long periods of time. The way DVTs lead to death is that they form in the large veins of the legs and then come loose to lodge in the lungs (put really simply). This causes the lung equivalent of a “heart attack”. It’s a ‘lung attack’ to coin a phrase, and in medical jargon is a “PE” or “pulmonary embolism.“ You would expect to find one big clots (not lots) and a dead wedge of lung tissue. To have lots of emboli, the cause is usually a chronic cardiac arrhythmia or intravenous drug use. In that case, emboli would be found in lots of other places, not JUST the lungs. Also, gastric contents in the bronchi? He aspirated, meaning he vomited and contents were inhaled. This could happen during CPR. In the lab results? What the heck? Where is the anion gap measurement? That is your first clue to any kind of poisoning usually. That potassium! That is way way elevated. I deal with live patients, so wasn’t sure if reference ranges are different for dead people, but per the report, yep it’s crazy high alright. But there is a disclosure it could be inaccurate if they collected it in the wrong tube. That is irresponsible. Why even collect it if you are going to put it in the wrong tube. Overdose of potassium can lead to heart attack and death quickly. So many questions in my mind! Let’s say, he does have all these emboli, ONLY in his lungs, at baseline and then has a big one that leads to death. He would be noticeably short of breath, likely chest pain (PEs hurt) with any kind of cardiovascular activity, like going for walks, walking and talking at the same time. JMO, JMO, JMO but this autopsy, or at least what I have read so far, does not make me reflect “oh, of course. That makes sense.” One big emboli, sure. That’s like those PEs that kill well women, bedbound convalescents, and people with known history of DVTs, but too numerous to count emboli all over the lungs, and ONLY in the lungs? 5 months? For this? Hopefully the FBI medical folks are also taking a detailed look at this.

 

[Alpha Bravo]

CV was in the insurance business. From what I read in a previous post, he notified the company to change beneficiaries. At the same time, he advised them to be on the alert for his death under unusual circumstances. I would give him credit to let the carrier know there could be problems if and when he passed, especially under unusual circumstances.
So the fact is, the company changed the beneficiary. His wife did not have to approve the change. That’s how this entire rabbit hole started.

Seems he should have given Lori a heads up she was off as the bene. Might have saved his life.
OTOH, nah, she had already made up her mind!

 

[Gardenkeep]

Speaking of Karma. I thoroughly believe each person is entitled to proper medical care. It just struck me as ironic that Alex was given Narcan, intubated, hooked up to an EKG machine. All noted by the medical examiner.

I remember seeing a paramedic giving CPR to CV. Alex took most lifesaving measures away from CV.

Jmo

I agree with that too. It is odd. Was the Narcan given by the EMTs? Were they going on some information by the person who was present? It's weird. Generally, quick blood draws are done to figure out what the issue is. Meanwhile, with those sympoms, I would have ended up with that guy on my table as soon as the blood was drawn, likely for a CT Head, and CT PE study.

 

[Riverdoc]

Maybe they didn't know that?

These days nearly all emergency responders carry it and it’s a quick and lifesaving fix in case these is any chance of opiate overdose. There is way more potential for benefit than harm.