Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #32

[carbuff]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed at member request as it was not what member intended> The life insurance money was not legally tied to custody of JJ in any way, shape, or form. There was no clause requiring the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance have custody of JJ to receive the money, and Charles left no requirement for Kay to give any of the money to his other kids either (although Kay indicated she wanted to give some of the money to his sons). Kay already received the life insurance payout without having custody of JJ.

Sources:

"Kay, who is also JJ's paternal grandmother, said her role in the policy does not change, and is separate from whether she gets custody of JJ."

Source: Charles Vallow removed Lori Vallow as $1M life insurance beneficiary in 2019

“(Charles) said, ‘Lori doesn’t want me anymore. She doesn’t want JJ and you’ll end up raising JJ so I want you to have the money,'” Woodcock recalls.

They never discussed the policy again, but Woodcock confirmed they did receive the money. She said receiving the money was not contingent on having custody of JJ.

Charles Vallow had a $1 million life insurance policy he left to JJ's grandma, rather than Lori Vallow Daybell | East Idaho News

Yes, I phrased that badly. I was trying to refer to what LV might believe. Sorry if that wasn't clear. That she might be getting (probably bad) advice from family or off the internet or from CD or whatever and believe that she has to have JJ. (@CSIDreamer this answers you too.

It would be serious irony if she got rid of the kids and then found out afterwards that she needed them to make a claim...but that's strictly hypothesizing.

I really screwed that up. I probably should ask to have that post deleted.

<Admin note: Referenced post was in fact removed at member request. Sorry if the discussion seems a bit out of context>

 

[MadTing]

This case ironically is like a real life version of one of chads books. its totally insane.

 

[Nurse Gen]

Yes, it would violate the AZ standard injunction if it were community property. Since his attorneys approved of the change and LV never challenged it, perhaps it was not community property.

I still have no understanding of how this could possibly have anything to do with a “custody dispute,” unless you mean that Lori May be demanding that Kay hand over the money if she ever wants to see JJ again.

The beneficiary change would still be effective—it just means that, IF the policy was community property, Lori could have filed a probate action to ensure she received at least half of the total community property after CV’s death.

<modsnip: quoted post was removed at member request as it was not what member intended> The life insurance money was not legally tied to custody of JJ in any way, shape, or form. There was no clause requiring the beneficiary of Charles' life insurance have custody of JJ to receive the money, and Charles left no requirement for Kay to give any of the money to his other kids either (although Kay indicated she wanted to give some of the money to his sons). Kay already received the life insurance payout without having custody of JJ.

Sources:

"Kay, who is also JJ's paternal grandmother, said her role in the policy does not change, and is separate from whether she gets custody of JJ."

Source: Charles Vallow removed Lori Vallow as $1M life insurance beneficiary in 2019

“(Charles) said, ‘Lori doesn’t want me anymore. She doesn’t want JJ and you’ll end up raising JJ so I want you to have the money,'” Woodcock recalls.

They never discussed the policy again, but Woodcock confirmed they did receive the money. She said receiving the money was not contingent on having custody of JJ.

Charles Vallow had a $1 million life insurance policy he left to JJ's grandma, rather than Lori Vallow Daybell | East Idaho News

IMO we have heard the final word on the insurance policy from our @AZlawyer and @Gardener1850
Thank you Wise WS!

 

[nhmemorymaker]

There is no reason for her to hide them. There was no welfare check until late November when she had been in Hawaii for her wedding and honeymoon before that. It is a legitimate argument for her to claim the life insurance yet there is no evidence she has done that. She continued to live in the Az home for 7 weeks then moved away without informing anyone so how was she going to receive the insurance money without claiming it? And what has hiding the children got to do with that anyway? It is a smokescreen IMO. MBP knew where she and Alex were and knew about Alex's wedding so I do not believe SS and JC did not know about these events.

She had that post office box with hers and charles' name on it in Sugar City.

 

[tresir2012]

I hope the Arizona slayer laws can be applied but I'm not optimistic. Now that Alex is dead from natural causes, it seems highly unlikely that Lori would ever be convicted in Charles's death. What evidence could possibly exist against her. Calls to her brother would hardly be incriminating. Alex admitted to the act. I believe they conspired but good luck finding any evidence of the conspiracy.

I guess it depends on what evidence they have regarding the timing of the 911 call, when Lori left to take JJ to school, what time she got to the school etc to confirm with what was said in their statements. They should have times on the phones of CV, LV and TR as to when their movements happened. MOO.

 

[Diddian]

Yes, I phrased that badly. I was trying to refer to what LV might believe. Sorry if that wasn't clear. That she might be getting (probably bad) advice from family or off the internet or from CD or whatever and believe that she has to have JJ. (@CSIDreamer this answers you too.

It would be serious irony if she got rid of the kids and then found out afterwards that she needed them to make a claim...but that's strictly hypothesizing.

I really screwed that up. I probably should ask to have that post deleted.

I don't think she needs advice from family to motivate her chaotic and inexplicable behavior.

Given the recent news that the FBI is looking into the death of Joe Ryan as part of the ongoing investigations, I decided to refresh my memory and re-read the timeline entries about the Joe Ryan v Lori Ryan divorce filing, various custody-related filings relating to their shared biological child - Tylee, LR's remarriage - becoming LV, LV's and CV's move to HI and later move back, AxC's attack upon Joe Ryan, and Joe Ryan's death.

LVD has a history. In that case, she defied court orders, brought chaos into the family court proceedings (for not just her case, but in relation to CV's custody agreements as well, so much so that a judge actually combined the proceedings of the entire mixed family), was ordered to undergo a psych evaluation (and she played games with the timing of that), and was ordered to have visitations from CV's sons surveilled.

Those are behaviors that are typical of narcissistic personalities who process-abuse their estranged spouses, former spouses, former spouses of their new spouses, and the various children involved in the mixture of spouses, former spouses and former spouses of their new spouses. And those types of narcissists often poison the minds of their children against their other biological/adopted parents by revising history through accusations and planted memories of physical and sexual abuse (accusations not made during the marriage, but only during the conflicted divorce/custody process). They villainize their opponents and present themselves as victims without regard for the harm they are causing their children with all the conflict.

Like what is happening now.

ETA: These types of personalities create chaos in the family court system. In another case I've followed (Jennifer Dulos), the state of CT introduced a law to improve the state's ability to contend with cases in which one or both parties abuse the court processes in such a way. CT considers such abuse domestic violence.

 

[tresir2012]

She had that post office box with hers and charles' name on it in Sugar City.

I think that was so she could still use CV's credit card to purchase items with. Why should she use her own money? I would not be surprised to learn that CV paid for the wedding and honeymoon, as well as the rings and outfits.

 

[Teche]

I'm sure the insurance company is well aware of the circumstances surrounding this case. If they did pay out to Kay, I'm sure they followed all the rules and laws. They probably know more than we do.

I have to agree. Insurance companies pay so many corporate attorneys major bucks to review documents prior to death benefit payouts according to state guidelines.

 

[FindingJoLee]

That potassium! That is way way elevated. I deal with live patients, so wasn’t sure if reference ranges are different for dead people, but per the report, yep it’s crazy high alright. But there is a disclosure it could be inaccurate if they collected it in the wrong tube. That is irresponsible. Why even collect it if you are going to put it in the wrong tube. Overdose of potassium can lead to heart attack and death quickly. So many questions in my mind!

The report gives a reference range for potassium level in the vitreous as <15, and they reported out the result as 13. So wasn't his result normal? (With the caveat that it was normal for that specimen using that collection procedure in that lab.)

Do you have any thoughts about the cannabis, caffeine, alcohol and I think there was a barbiturate in his blood too?

Those were all tested but the values you see in that report are the lowest level at which the lab would report out a result. Anything below that wouldn't be reported. They don't seem to be his results -- I believe it's info from the lab about how they would ordinarily report out a result.

 

[FindingJoLee]

I think that was so she could still use CV's credit card to purchase items with. Why should she use her own money? I would not be surprised to learn that CV paid for the wedding and honeymoon, as well as the rings and outfits.

It's not outside the realm of possibility that their joint card continued to used until something happened that wouldn't allow that to continue. I'm remembering something about a denied card at the storage unit after a few months -- was she using her own card there vs. a joint card with Charles that hadn't been closed when he died?

I'm sure we'll see something about the finances pop up as Charles' death investigation continues. (It DOES still continue...right??)

 

[tresir2012]

Deleted

 

[Teche]

I am trying to figure out why we think sister and mother have always been on Lori's side. Did I miss something, since I had a lot of catching up to do???
I have wondered if they were somewhat estranged until the shtf.... They didn't know anything that was going on with marriages, disappearances etc.

I also question whether they really thought Charles was such a bad guy--when he gave Lori so so much. I think Lori's fibs changed their opinions rather than him actually being a bad guy... I don't really believe Summer's statement either about she having been the one to put Alex there..

But your final statement keeps ringing in my mind as "ain't that the truth".
All this "support" is coming so late. I really do think it is the Cox family tradition to make themselves look "ok to the world". This is to protect themselves as "great parents who raised a little girl who was such a good little mother." I also think it is just part of the overall strategy of the Defense. "But look what a good mother she was. Even the neighbors said so. Even KAY said so".

And pulling out all "the Stepford wives" is strategic as well.. maybe to convince guys of "how could all these pretty little heads do wrong", and to convince the gals.. "gosh, we women, of course we will always be good mothers"

Sorry for the overdramatic quotes...but...I think this is all they got left.

It seems like their devotion to Lolo could be because Charles and possibly JR helped provide funds or assistance to the extended family.

 

[FindingJoLee]

This is the barbituate that is mentioned in the report - gabapentin

The Dangers Of Mixing Gabapentin And Alcohol – Side Effects

Those are two separate pieces of information -- one about the lowest reporting level for barbiturates in the left column and another about the lowest reporting level for gabapentin. The two columns left and right aren't related to each other. (Gabapentin isn't a barbiturate.)

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Great post I ag


Love your post! I think that if she HAD put the kids in hiding with someone trust worthy there would be evidence on her phone or her computer or on Chads electronic trail or Melanies or AC’s even.... there just would be proof period. If there was anything at all to grab onto LE would have investigated it. I really think all this assumption on her families side is to muddy the water and put some logical “ what ifs” in the mix. There really is only a 1% chance that this happened. And if it actually did happen... the person behind it should work in the field of helping abused women and children hide from their abusers with out a trace... but we know this person does not exist If she was that loving of a mother she would have found some way to make sure that JJ and Tylee were ok. She would need to know that they were happy and healthy and JJ realized that one day his mom would be back to get him. There is no plausible explanation ( in all reality) that says she was looking out for the welfare of her children. I mean if Kay did get them taken away from her.... all she would need to do is hire a good lawyer and get them back. Also Tylee was already at an age where she could tell the courts where she wanted to be and they would adhere to that! It’s just utter nonsense to try to explain this away if u look at it in real terms. Tylee is almost 18 and as if she would agree to hide away somewhere with her brother for a year or more! No way!
I do think she was a pretty good mom for many years but was brainwashed by her new religion and chad..... mental illness too I think plays a part.. She feels like she did the right thing at the time.... I just wonder if when she sits and thinks now.... after being away from chad and his bs.....how she might wish that she didn’t make the choices she did. This only applies to the kids ofcourse. I bet it’s starting to haunt her and I think she realizes either way that her last days of freedom have passed...... and all for what? A life insurance she will never see.... the life insurance they did get their hands on is going down the toilet to a real estate lawyer oh and for about four months of wedded bliss in Hawaii ? She is living her worst case scenario right now folks and if she could get out of it ( meaning.. show proof of life) I would bet my last penny that she WOULD! JMO

I see no solid evidence that she was truly a good mother. Charles' sons' refer to her as an acquaintance, and she would go off by herself a lot leaving the children at home. Well, maybe that is not really important but i just think Lori concocted an image she wanted people to see. And now having the whole family pipe in with that same fake story of "what a good mother". It really makes me mad.

 

[tresir2012]

Riverdoc is much more astute and a Doc, right? I worked under folks like Riverdoc. My input would be just that. Riverdoc can validate or explain if I'm off in my thinking.

The elevated potassium can sometimes occur as a false positive if the cells in the blood draw rupture. The ruptured cells will leak their potassium and taint the results. Generally another draw is done to confirm a true reading, but that may not have been done in AC's case. Also, dehydration can elevate the potassium, and that may be a possibility considering his creatinine was elevated at 1.6. Creatinine is a measure of how well the kidneys are functioning. The kidneys work harder if there is dehydration. I relied strongly on that lab when doing contrast studies in CT. So, that is what I am guessing about the elevated potassium.

The multiple PE folci is the most common way that PE presents. It generally isn't just one. The single clot will fragment into smaller clots which then appear in different areas of the lung vessels. The lack of clots in the legs my be because they left no residual evidence behind, particularly if they traveled days before to the lungs.
What I found concerning were the large cavernous hemangiomas in the liver. In very rare cases, these hemangiomas can cause blood clots that lead to PEs. But it isn't common, so it is a small possible cause of the PEs and why there was no evidence of clots in the legs.

He definitely aspirated. I'm just not sure how much that may have contributed. (Riverdoc, what do you think?)

The lack of the anion-gap is concerning. Like RiverDoc said, that was a missed part of the puzzle, and I can't imagine why it wasn't done.

There's no way the lung emboli could have been from coronavirus is there?

 

[nhmemorymaker]

I am not familiar with this case (that's my disclaimer cuz I can feel 200 eyes roll at what im about to request, selfishly)
this thread goes so dang fast that every time I pop on I just get so overwhelmed and leave.
if someone could just help me to fill in some gaps so I can hop on and somewhat understand what's going on:
Lori and her new husband Chad are part of a religion that casts some heavy judgement and also has to do with death.. so they (possibly) killed their respective exes to be together, and now Lori's kids are missing, presumed to be deceased due to their judged souls having turned dark or something. but I also see lots of names thrown around, are these other adults that are in this cult? do they have any connection to the murders, or some of them at least know? where is the main cult located, Hawaii?
is there any evidence of murder or is that the issue, only circumstantial evidence?
Thanks for anyone who has read this! fingers crossed even one person responds and my apologies if my summation comes off as ignorant lol

It is practically impossible to address your questions!! It is so complex. The very best thing you should do is read and really study the timeline that is at the beginning of each and every thread. One of our members here, Gardner1850 has developed and maintained this cases' outstanding timeline from the very beginning. We are totally "married" to this timeline, and find ourselves going back to it over and over. That is my advise to yo----> take the hours needed to study that timeline!!!

 

[Diddian]

I guess it depends on what evidence they have regarding the timing of the 911 call, when Lori left to take JJ to school, what time she got to the school etc to confirm with what was said in their statements. They should have times on the phones of CV, LV and TR as to when their movements happened. MOO.

I agree. It is likely they have vehicle and cellphone evidence relating to when AxC arrived the night before and what communications preceded his traveling there, when Lori actually left the home that morning, where Lori traveled in that rental car, what stops she made, and how long she stayed at each, when she stopped or started the engine, as well as whether any in-person conversations or utterances, cellphone calls, texts, or emails occurred between Lori, TR, CV, AxC and any other persons in the period before CV visited Lori's home on July 11 up to and beyond the police interviews of the various parties. If so, they may have spoken with any of those people (or observed what those people have said in MSM) and evaluated what those people are saying. They may also have gathered surveillance footage or stills from any relevant locations.

If JJ uttered anything that might be relevant at school (or summer camp) or while playing in the neighborhood that day or in the months following, they likely know that as well and have spoken with those outside the family who are familiar enough to know whether what he says or does is new and potentially relevant behavior.

They know JJ's utterances captured by the neighbor's doorbell video camera and may have asked the short-term nanny about anything he uttered or said or how he behaved in her presence.

We already know the various deceptions and evasions Lori engaged in when reporting the news of CV's death to his sons as well as her own son.

Colby has stated his own reaction upon learning later that afternoon what really happened that morning. This man who stated that he had characteristically felt protective toward his mother reported that he wanted to get away and put some distance between himself and Lori (and Tylee). He didn't want any part of what they were selling, even at the cost of leaving Tylee to cope with it without him, which is uncharacteristic.

Lori may have left after her interviews with police thinking the investigation was over, but in truth, it was just starting.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Can caffeine overdose cause the pulmonary blood clots? Did the report say how high Alex's caffeine levels were? A friend's child overdosed on caffeine powder and he had clots in his autopsy. I have always worried that caffeine powder slipped into a drink would be how my husband would off me. He could say that as a night shift worker I must have had too much. Especially after I found a bottle of caffeine pulls in his car

Did you actually see caffeine listed in the report??? As someone stated here, Alex did not drink, smoke, or take drugs, which is indicative of Mormon practices. Coffee is a no-no too. So I would not think that he would have no caffeine in his system at all.

 

[tresir2012]

Thank you, Riverdoc, for sharing your knowledge on the subject. Based on what you have shared, I also hope FBI medical folks are taking a detailed look.

I'm curious whether what you described (lots of tiny emboli in the lungs) is also what is being found in the lungs of those who have become infected with COVID19 and suffered more serious symptoms than those who have mild cases. I've seen reports about lots of clots in the lower lungs, with bits of dead tissue, in those cases.

I ask because there have been some reports that COVID19 was spreading here in the western US earlier than originally thought. AxC traveled to Vegas for his and Melani's marriages on November 29 & 30 and there were reports that he was having trouble breathing the week before he died on December 12. I don't think he was very overweight and he was not yet in his 60's, but the atherosclerosis and hypertension would be complicating factors in a COVID19 infection, as I understand it. I know very little about medical subjects, but I think I also remember hearing something about potassium levels drastically changing in COVID19-related cytokine storm, but cannot remember which way.

These are my thoughts too but they would have tested for COVID19 I would hope.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

There's no way the lung emboli could have been from coronavirus is there?

certainly went through my mind too! Am sure the same with a lot of us. If in CA, i might have wondered more...but Arizona...don't think possible.