Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom arrested* #39

[Forever Young]

I am not a psychologist either, but have extensive involvement with the treatment of someone who has BPD and cursory involvement with two others. My understanding is this disorder is one of the most difficult to treat but progress has been made. Step 1: convincing a patient they need help. Does anyone believe Lori would be easy to convince that her problems in life are related to her own reactions and beliefs?

My intent with posting my theories about BPD is less to explain Lori but rather to alert others to what this pathology looks like. Don’t marry someone with BPD! If you do have a relationship with someone who suffers, you are going to need a lot of wisdom and strength to stay mentally safe yourself.

I am still leaning toward Histrionic Personality Disorder, which has been compared to the feminine version of Antisocial Personality Disorder or psychopathy. There can be an overlap between HPD and Borderline PD criteria, but I read that the term Borderline originated because the subject was borderline insane. LV is not borderline insane, she is insane!

Borderlines tend to experience deep and intense emotional outbursts, where as HPDs strike us as more superficial - fake! JMO!

..."it is more characteristically erratic in BPD - the emotionality is not typically planned or intended, but the result of the client feeling like s/he is out of control, or even dissolving. In contrast, the behavior seems more instrumental (i.e., goal directed) in HPD - it is in service of gratifying the need for attention, with more calculation as to the effect the behavior will have on others.

Thus, clients with BPD may be much more likely to experience unintended effects of their behavior, but still be unable to choose more adaptive behavior. My supervisors suspected that our client had HPD because she seemed more in control and calculating in her behavior than one would expect from BPD."
Practice Wisdom: Differentiating Borderline and Histrionic Personalities

 

[BUF]

Doesn’t the court now have custody of the kids? Am I imagining that? LOL MOO

Well, actually the coroner usually does as testing and determining the COD usually happens...but this is Idaho with that elected coroner without training...with that in mind, my guess is that they are safely with the FBI at this point.

It may be a while before they are released to anyone. My guess is they will eventually be released to K & C as next of kin since their mother is incarcerated with probably more charges to come.

 

[indicolite22]

Justification above the law would tell me they would be proud to show off dead zombies.

Not necessarily. They know it's against the law to kill people and they are aware of the legal consequences, but they still feel it's justified/necessary according to their belief system.

 

[RickshawFan]

Coronavirus pandemic may have started in October, says UK-French study

I just posted this in the Covid thread. Surely they would have tested him though. They probably couldn't test Tammy.

The problem is, this is very new research and there were no tests available until, like late February (?) internationally, and much, much later in the US, especially in volume (still!). So we couldn't have expected an ME back then to include a COVID test. As it is, researchers have started doing tests on old cases going back AFAIK to last fall.
I also note that the people in the LV-CD orbit were traveling all over the place during this time....UT HI CA AZ ID NV. So easy to pick up a virus in any of those locations as well as en route.
Again, I'm not saying COVID might have caused any of these deaths, just that it might have been a complication or the "straw that broke the camel's back" or some such.

 

[vislaw]

Here is a top view of the Daybell property with measurements. I've added a rectified aerial of the dig to show the relative locations:

And here is the original Google Earth aerial. This is dated 2015:

 

[MoM3tzger]

What if you are a sociopath (or even a pshychopath)?

@indicolite22 I think you nailed it! I see Lori and Chad below between the lines....

Antisocial Personality Disorder (ADM) DSM-5 301.7 (F60.2) APD is a DSM-5 diagnosis assigned to individuals who habitually and pervasively disregard or violate the rights and considerations of others without remorse.

Sociopath does not have a separate category as it falls under the umbrella of ADM in the DSM-V - Features for Sociopath
Significant Impairments in Personality Functioning
Impairments in personality functioning can be identified by several factors.

• Identity: Ego-centrism; self-esteem derived from personal gain, power, or pleasure.
• Self-direction: Goal-setting based on personal gratification. In other words, having little-to-no regard for social standards, such as obeying the lawful or reasonable ethical behavior.

Impairments in interpersonal functioning can include the following:

• Empathy: Lack of concern for feelings, needs, or suffering of others. Lack of remorse after hurting or mistreating another.
• Intimacy: Incapable of mutually intimate relationships, as exploitation is a primary means of relating to others. This is normally recognized by deceitful behavior or intimidation to control others.

 

[jjenny]

Why do I not believe a word that Melani told Nate? Alex and Zulmea dating? Zulema deciding to wait on when it was right to marry?
I now also heard three versions out of that family, as to why Alex with staying with Lori before Charles came to pick up JJ.
Alex claimed it was because he and Lori were going to do fun things together that day.
Lori claimed she asked Alex to stay because she was concerned about Charles coming to pick up JJ in the morning, concerned that Charles was going to cause trouble.
Then Summer during her interview claims she was the one to ask Alex to go stay with Lori because Summer was concerned Charles was going to cause trouble, and Alex actually didn't even want to do it at first.
How far can my eyes roll into my head?

 

[jjenny]

Coronavirus pandemic may have started in October, says UK-French study

I just posted this in the Covid thread. Surely they would have tested him though. They probably couldn't test Tammy.

In China. It might have started in October in China. Why are we discussing covid on this thread? We might as well discuss alien abduction.

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, like that or like these:

https://www.amazon.com/ACVCY-Emerge...znCz&pd_rd_wg=QzUrK&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_d



https://www.amazon.com/S-Survive-Ou...znCz&pd_rd_wg=QzUrK&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_d
And many other applications. They tend to be orange on one side and silver on the other, but there are variations.

 

[Forever Young]

I am still leaning toward Histrionic Personality Disorder, which has been compared to the feminine version of Antisocial Personality Disorder or psychopathy. There can be an overlap between HPD and Borderline PD criteria, but I read that the term Borderline originated because the subject was borderline insane. LV is not borderline insane, she is insane!

Borderlines tend to experience deep and intense emotional outbursts, where as HPDs strike us as more superficial - fake! JMO!

..."it is more characteristically erratic in BPD - the emotionality is not typically planned or intended, but the result of the client feeling like s/he is out of control, or even dissolving. In contrast, the behavior seems more instrumental (i.e., goal directed) in HPD - it is in service of gratifying the need for attention, with more calculation as to the effect the behavior will have on others.

Thus, clients with BPD may be much more likely to experience unintended effects of their behavior, but still be unable to choose more adaptive behavior. My supervisors suspected that our client had HPD because she seemed more in control and calculating in her behavior than one would expect from BPD."
Practice Wisdom: Differentiating Borderline and Histrionic Personalities

What are the DSM-5 diagnostic criteria for borderline personality disorder (BPD)?

If I am going to be posting about BPD, I should at least post a credible source for the diagnostic criteria. DSM-V is behind pay wall, I believe. But Medscape should suffice.

Wikipedia has DSM-V criteria.

Borderline personality disorder - Wikipedia

Histrionic personality disorder - Wikipedia

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

I think Tylee got the jeep after Charles died. And slight correction, unless things have changed, she could have had a learner's permit in Arizona at 15 yrs 7 months. Also, even though it was called Tylee's jeep when BB was shot at. I think it was still registered to Charles.

I'm quite a few pages behind, so not sure if this has been mentioned, but Tylee would have been 16, nearly 17 at the time of CV's death and would have certainly had her regular driver's license (not permit) as she said she drove by herself from Texas. Moo.

 

[The First Article]

When you listen to this interview, at the 4:00 minute mark, Lori's mother makes a very revealing remark. Instead of saying "we love them very much", she uses past tense "we loved them very much". This interview was before the children were found. I think Lori's mom,in trying to defend her daughter, made a huge slip up!!

they had the press release about the kids being found dead ready months in advance.

These people are messed up. The apple doesn't fall far from this tree. They suspected or knew, and kept up the support anyway. She is contemptible.

 

[Spartygirl]

Amazing, Vislaw! Attached is a close-up of the orange item and contents. When I saw this, it reminded me of Tylee's sweatshirt that she was wearing at Yellowstone.

Also, it sure looks like the orange gun bag to me. So, maybe this was used to discard clothes?

This close up looks more like clothes in the bag to me,
Also, not sure if it is dark colored because perhaps clothes were trying to be burned in a bon fire or if the dark is just the dark dirt from digging the ground.

 

[Tortoise]

<respectfully snipped at beginning and end for focus>



Could that have been provided for the corpse-sniffing dog? JJ and Tylee were so close that any toy of JJ's would have had her scent on it as well. But I really don't know how these canine "operatives" work.

From what I have learned along the way, cadaver dogs are trained to detect the odor of death, even if a body was once in one place but has then been moved, say in a vehicle. It's from decomposition.

Those dogs wouldn't need an item belonging to the person when they were alive, because those scents wouldn't be there.

 

[jjenny]

From what I have learned along the way, cadaver dogs are trained to detect the odor of death, even if a body was once in one place but has then been moved, say in a vehicle. It's from decomposition.

Those dogs wouldn't need an item belonging to the person when they were alive, because those scents wouldn't be there.

Very true. Cadaver dogs sense human decomposition. Any human decomposition.

 

[DI_Isokawa]

In catching up I noticed somebody quoted an earlier post of mine about the automobiles in the case, and now I can't find that one to link to. Unfortunately, the post of mine that was quoted was in error. So to try and set the record straight, here is what I know about the cars:

Charles's F150: License number and disposition unknown to me. This is the vehicle Charles could not find at the Phoenix airport when he returned from San Antonio. Based on some outside chatter it is my surmise that this vehicle was not taken from the airport by Lori, but rather Lori and MG went to the airport and moved it inside the lot so he couldn't find it.

Alex's F150: Arizona license CPQuint. This is the vehicle I initially mis-identified as belonging to Charles. It is the vehicle mentioned in the FBI call for witnesses at Yellowstone, and seen in the lapel vids at the site of Charles's murder. Outside chatter/rumors are that this vehicle ended up with Colby in exchange for Tylee's Jeep (FWIW, which may not be worth much.) Impounded by police at a time and place unknown to me.

Tylee's 2-door Jeep Wrangler: Texas license LWD0997, VIN 1C4GJXAN6JW326205. It was sold used on January 17, 2019. This vehicle was identified as been driven by the shooter in the attempt on Brandon Boudreaux's life 2 October 2019. Possibly given to Tylee by Charles to compensate for the pain of moving from the Chandler house to the much less attractive Gilbert residence in January 2019. Tylee told police at murder scene that she drove it from Texas to Arizona by herself. It is possible that she meant that she and Charles flew to Texas, picked it up, and she did all the driving on the way back (as opposed to being alone in the vehicle.) Possibly at the murder scene behind closed garage door. Outside chatter/rumors that it ended up with Colby and was swapped to Alex for his pickup. (Again, FWIW, which may not be worth much.) Impounded by Rexburg police on or about 27 November 2019.

Lori's Infiniti QX70 SUV: Texas license not known by me. Visible in garage at the murder scene. Disposition unknown to me.

Unknown Nissan Rogue SUV: Caught on security camera at Rexburg storage locker. Not sighted by me elsewhere. Idaho license, owner and disposition unknown to me. Possibly a rental, but the aftermarket luggage racks on top argue otherwise. It would be *very* interesting to know whose SUV this is.

I have attached pictures to make it easier for others to search if they choose.

 

[Forever Young]

About Chad lying about supernatural stuff to get his way...I don’t remember the exact details, but he lied about a dead relative of Tammy’s, I think her mom or grandma, appearing to him. I think he lied and said the apparition was upset about her playing a video game, and used the made up apparition to get her to play less.

So if I’m right about that, he would lie about supernatural encounters to get his way in extremely minor conflicts of his own making. He also lied in the “non-fiction” books to make money. I’m also pretty sure he knew that JR and perhaps other authors he published lied to make money.

So he appears to be a consistent, long term liar. To achieve very small, unimportant things like the video game conflict, and to make money dishonestly when he was very capable of making money honestly.

If all of that’s right, it’s no surprise he lied to Lori about the light and dark levels and the zombie stuff. It seems like he just conjured up these lies to give false religious approval for the nasty things Lori thought anyway.

But the shallowness and superficiality of these lies indicate to me that he was probably extremely surprised when murder came into the picture. This guy was a petty liar and a crook for some time, but I don’t think he had any inkling of what Lori and Alex were capable of.

This makes me think he will be quite likely to inform on Lori to get a better deal/plea. He knows that all of the religious stuff was BS, he knows that he’s a weird liar and not a god, so when the reality sinks in, the self preservation will too.

I also bet that he had the least to do with the actual killings and likely the burials. If true, this is another incentive to get a better deal.

Pretty much lines up with my opinions, too! I wonder if Chad was able to get Lori to admit to something on the recorded phone line. LE used a wire previously with MP and IP. JMO!

 

[GiGi4277]

This bag looks shiny like someone said.

RNR Vinyl Duffel Bag - Rock N Rescue

Wow! I think this should be submitted as a tip @diggndeeperstill ! Excellent find! The black strap handles seem to be there. (ETA) Crediting @Michael0808 for this amazing find upon reading back.

If it's the bag it explains why the corners kept their shape when it was transferred from the ground to the tarp. It looks to have been ripped at each end so that it opens more flat.

I need to have a look at the size of the men in relation to the tarp to see if we can't get an idea as to the size of the tarp and then the orange material in relation to the tarp. Next to the mattress there in the room it looks to be about the size of a large pillow.

Looking at the man standing next to the tarp it looks to be slightly over 6ft square, and I'd guess the orange material is about 2-2.5 ft in relation to that, at its longest. first picture in this post - ID - ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *MEDIA MAPS TIMELINE* NO DISCUSSION

 

[RickshawFan]

Yes, as well discussed by Trish's guest on her podcast. I have a really dumb question, because I have never killed anybody.... Can you actually rig up some portable controlled type of carbon monoxide setup to be used inside"

This used to be a method of suicide not involving a car. IIRC Sylvia Plath killed herself by sticking her head in the oven?
But, really, all you need is an enclosed space with a live flame. People die in camping tents while using gas stoves or gas heaters. That's CO2 poisoning.
If you really want to get fancy, I suppose potential Everest climbers and athletes that need in-home altitude acclimatization have CO2 booths?
But how about just a plastic bag? They have big warnings on them, after all.

 

[tresir2012]

All we can really do is estimate the size of the orange object "as is". Jmo

Has anyone had another look at the storage videos to see if any orange totes were carried in or out?