Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #10

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That part of this story has always struck me as both strange and sad. I suspect that Lori has been lying to people about Tylee for a long time-- perhaps fudging the truth on where Tylee was living and what she was doing in life. For example, Kay had been told Tylee graduated from homeschool at 15 and got her GED. But several posted here that there is no state in the US where you can get a GED at age 15. Further, I believe you have to go to school until you are 16 in most states (unless you have special circumstances) and in most states you have to be 18 to take the GED test. Lori easily could have gotten around the school law and allowed Tylee to drop out at 15 by claiming she would homeschool her, then just told family members Tylee was "graduated" from homeschool at age 15 with a GED (but it would be a lie since Tylee couldn't have taken the test that young). I also suspect that Lori may have told people Tylee was "emancipated" because she had graduated already and that may be why Charles Vallow's divorce paperwork claimed all other children involved in the marriage were emancipated. When Lori was MIA in Feb 2019 Kay (and possibly Charles?) assumed that Tylee was staying with other relatives during this time. But we very recently learned that Tylee went to Hawaii with Lori in Feb 2019.

This describes Arizona's requirements: All About the GED: Arizona
Tylee turned 16 on September 24, 2018. We know she was in high school in Kauai Fall 2016 and was at a HS in Arizona after that, according to a message from Lori mentioning the school name.

She could drop out as soon as her 16th birthday When Can You Drop Out of School in Arizona?

Guessing she spent Spring semester 2017 in school in AZ then did not go back and took the GED when she was eligible.

MOO
 
I thought we decided long ago that this is not about Mormons. It is about whackos/AVOW types. There could be an otherwise good family who is an AVOW type that is keeping them safe and would not see it as violating their anti-gubmint faith

EXACTLY! Thanks so much for posting this. They could be Jewish, Mormon, Atheist. The religion doesn’t matter in the case. It just doesn’t.
 
I have no idea what the law is in Idaho, but knowing how thinking from the majority in Idaho is different from that in California, I suspect what you're describing isn't close to the law in Idaho (or really in most states).
Not true, in Idaho (and every other state I researched) police have an obligation to investigate welfare check requests and they are allowed to ‘enter and remain’ without a warrant. Refusal to cooperate by the parent is obstruction. A quick search shows parents do get taken in for obstruction in Idaho. So if everyone else, including wealthy celebrities, have to immediately get their children or show live video proof anytime a call is made, why was Lori the exception? It doesn’t sound right
 
So, according to the report Chad and Lori "signed a contract as long-term tenants" (probably late Nov/early Dec some time) and then a month later tells the neighbor they have to vacate "because the condo was scheduled to be shown to a potential buyer."
Not at all unusual here. Rental condos are often bought and sold and it is normal to ask tenants to leave during a showing. The lease is part of the sales contract so even if it were sold the new owner would have to honor the booked rentals. I've done this myself for a rental condo I had.

Claiming to be long term might be suspect. There is a HUGE issue with vacation rentals right now in Hawaii and some (the State thinks most) are renting illegally. So it is not unusual for landlords to ask tenants to say they are long term (90 days or more). The fine for illegally renting as a vacation rental is $15000 per day! And the COMPLEX can be fined $100,000 or more if the individual unit owners don't pay their taxes. This could explain why the neighbor casually talked to Chad IMO.

I have dug into that condo. The owners are from Houston so possibly have a connection though probably just a coincidence. They list a minimum stay of 30 days.

The law requires the tax license numbers be listed on EVERY advertisement for a rental. The numbers the listing provides are not valid so they are not in compliance. Not posting more details because it may have nothing to do with CD/LV. But clearly someone is doing something fishy with that rental. Most likely just evading state taxes though and unrelated to our POIs.
 
Not true, in Idaho (and every other state I researched) police have an obligation to investigate welfare check requests and they are allowed to ‘enter and remain’ without a warrant. Refusal to cooperate by the parent is obstruction. A quick search shows parents do get taken in for obstruction in Idaho. So if everyone else, including wealthy celebrities, have to immediately get their children or show live video proof anytime a call is made, why was Lori the exception? It doesn’t sound right
That haole wahine witch has some strong smelling powers. The droids you are looking for are not here!
 
Not at all unusual here. Rental condos are often bought and sold and it is normal to ask tenants to leave during a showing. The lease is part of the sales contract so even if it were sold the new owner would have to honor the booked rentals. I've done this myself for a rental condo I had.

Claiming to be long term might be suspect. There is a HUGE issue with vacation rentals right now in Hawaii and some (the State thinks most) are renting illegally. So it is not unusual for landlords to ask tenants to say they are long term (90 days or more). The fine for illegally renting as a vacation rental is $15000 per day! And the COMPLEX can be fined $100,000 or more if the individual unit owners don't pay their taxes. This could explain why the neighbor casually talked to Chad IMO.

I have dug into that condo. The owners are from Houston so possibly have a connection though probably just a coincidence. They list a minimum stay of 30 days.

The law requires the tax license numbers be listed on EVERY advertisement for a rental. The numbers the listing provides are not valid so they are not in compliance. Not posting more details because it may have nothing to do with CD/LV. But clearly someone is doing something fishy with that rental. Most likely just evading state taxes though and unrelated to our POIs.

Interesting, that the police had a search warrant for the condominium. It seems like the owner has also evicted Chad and Lori, which is why they are "hotel hopping" right now.
 
But, such has always been the case (grown up dragged to many an evangelical church service).

To the best of my knowledge, all mainstream Protestant religions teach that it's wrong to speculate about the "end of days". I agree this doesn't stop people from doing so and never has; but it's not with the imprimateur of said church's official denomination.

I agree that maybe, if you squint really hard, Chad doesn't know this and would be surprised and taken aback by being termed a "cult leader" due to this chunk of information being "common knowledge" (I mean, he's clearly familiar with at least the publication-industry basics of the "Left Behind" canon).

But it's well known doctrine in general by mainstream religions governed by some particular body (PCUSA, etc.), that trying to tie the End of Days to a particular day is verboten. Christ is credited as saying it in Matthew 24, 36-42. I've got a grandmother who's been dolorously predicting that "we are in the End Times" since mid-1970s; that's not the same thing as sticking a pin in the timeline with a specific date on the end of it.

I mean, I grant I'm not LDS, and maybe I'm surprised that Chad is incapable of being surprised on this doctrinal point because maybe you all don't have as many sermons on "No man knows the hour nor the day of judgment day except for God the Father"; but I feel like Chad would know.
I am certain that Chad was very aware of that scripture and concept that “no man knows the hour...” He wrote what he described as fictional books describing how the end of days from scripture might come to pass. Years later, after publishing many other “dreamers / near death experiences” books and moving to Idaho, he started claiming that his fictional books were actually based on reality he has seen himself.
 
I think the Woodcocks' welfare inquiry into JJ may have started with Child Protective Services (or whatever it's called in Idaho--at the same agency where Lori is being ordered to produce the children), and then moved to police once Tammy's death investigation opened and the overlapping pieces came together for LE. I think LE questioned neighbors, learned Chad & Lori's movements, and maybe that Chad had the Thanksgiving vacation planned and might be there on that day packing. Similar to how they knew Lori and Chad were on the move this Sunday.

The pack-up of the units wasn't spurred by the police check, I don't think. It just coincided with it, because they were traveling for Thanksgiving and planning to move to Hawaii permanently. Police may have even *known* they would arrive to three empty units. Again, getting warrants for three separate locations takes time. The ping may have played a role--given them cause in that moment, but the more I've thought about this, the more I've realized that it's been a much longer process.

The flaw in my explanation is the length of time to get Tammy's autopsy, so maybe I'm wrong on all this.

Whatever the case, I'm hoping the kids are safe and alive. I think they've been with Lori's family this whole time. You don't see MB or any of Lori's siblings, or her parents freaking out about missing their missing grandkids/niece & nephew/cousins.

Meanwhile, Lori is missing all of her own baby grandchild's life. She's been moving around like crazy through all of 2019 until now.

MOO MOO MOO
Chad, too, has three infant grandchildren. Not to mention his five young adult children (one now on an LDS mission) that he pulled away from extended family in moving to Idaho, and now seemingly abandoned to be with Lori in Hawaii.
 
If the children are alive and with some kind Mormon family then that "kind Mormon family" is not living their religion by intentionally withholding the kids from law enforcement in a missing and endangered persons case. "We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law" (Articles of Faith #12). Just saying, moo.
100% agree.
 
It is interesting that they chose Hawaii, of course, Lori loves the beach.

Folks in Hawaii want to know their neighbors, they are amazingly friendly. Everyone is super outgoing. It is easier to get lost almost anywhere, but a small rock in the middle of the ocean, where you had to fly to get there.

They didn't try to hide. After all, you need to purchase plane tickets to get to Hawaii. If they had wanted to hide, it would have been easier to go underground by purchasing a Greyhound bus ticket, for cash.

Lori? Riding the "dog"?! LOL.

Why are they being so brazen?

That's what keeps eating at me. They are not behaving like people on the run. They do not appear nervous in interactions with the police, not just now but going back to CV's shooting. I live here in Hawaii and, trust me, it would be VERY easy to just disappear here, at least on the Big Island. We have lap-of-luxury places, but you'd be tracked there. We also have beautiful places where no one would every find you. With a little money you can hire people to turn your little place into luxury.

They could start going by Kada and Loli (Hawaiian versions of their names), befriend a few locals and let them know the heat is on and half the island would protect them. It did not take me long after I moved here to figure that out so given Loli's history I'm sure she is aware of that.

I have a friend who is a cop here and after telling him where I live (behind a gate, half a mile up a private road, and 200 yards down my private driveway) he told me he could never take a call to my house unless I, as the owner, called 911 from my property...and I'd have to give them the gate code because, while the fire department has it, the police do not. Unless I were accused of a very serious crime, it would be hard to get a search warrant because the judge would question why they are intruding on my privacy. He used to work on the mainland and says being a cop here is a joke because they are so restricted and short handed. They can't do much more than respond to immediate emergencies and write traffic tickets to raise money for the county. Please don't take this as disparagement of LE, far from it. We have a huge ice problem and lots of petty crime like theft. They just don't have the resources to deal with it and the county will never have the budget to get them the resources they need. Every time a tourist gets bit by a shark, has a purse snatched, or gets their car broken into it takes all of the police resources for one quarter of the island for a up to half a shift. A car accident is similar. If someone is seriously injured or killed, the police are 100% shut down for most of that day on at least half the island!

Look into what is going on in Honolulu right now. The police chief was indicted on federal corruption charges as as was his wife a senior prosecutor. Her boss the city/county prosecutor was recently forced out as well for helping her. Her brother, a prominent doctor and her were indicted for drug trafficking by the feds. No one in authority in Hawaii acted. They were not even investigated. Other senior cops assisted in their crimes. The feds had to step in. My point is, this is the wild west, unless you are on drugs, it's very easy to get away with almost anything. Even murderers don't get long sentences the first couple of times. McGarret is not on the job here!

My partner has a very close relative who has been on the "run" here since shooting at the cops a couple of years ago. She has no idea where he is of course but another relative of hers, a cop, joked at a family event recently that they'll never find him because he just isn't a priority. That's the way things are here. It's not that the cops are incompetent. It's just that it's a vast area, mostly remote, and the tax base only supports a tiny police force. Kauai is not much different. They could easily blend in and disappear yet they chose not to.

My point is only that this would be an easy place to just disappear even if you had killed half a dozen people. Lori would have known that. Yet they chose to leave tracks and be in the open. That confuses me. Maybe it's just narcissism and not being capable of tasting death. But it could also be innocence. MM
 
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Not true, in Idaho (and every other state I researched) police have an obligation to investigate welfare check requests and they are allowed to ‘enter and remain’ without a warrant. Refusal to cooperate by the parent is obstruction. A quick search shows parents do get taken in for obstruction in Idaho. So if everyone else, including wealthy celebrities, have to immediately get their children or show live video proof anytime a call is made, why was Lori the exception? It doesn’t sound right

Because it was probably just a routine welfare check. I don't think anyone knew then what was going on especially not the grandparents who made the call. So if a decent looking husband and wife tells you the kids are staying with friends, maybe so they can honeymoon... And assuming she pretended to call them, but they must be at the park (or some other logical excuse) since they aren't answering... why would it necessitate anything further besides verifying what they say? Which they then attempted to do, obviously they found out it was all a lie and returned. Maybe they wouldve held her until she produced the kids at that point had she been at the home.
 
MOO If this statement is right.. the date of 12/10 makes me sick. Does Chad get a call from his kids saying Mom’s body has been exhumed?!
I don’t know about the kids, but Tammy’s parents and siblings had no idea she was exhumed until after she was reburied, and the authorities made them aware.
 
A fireplace in Hawaii would be almost unheard of, except in the mountains. But gas grills are quite effective at burning documents/evidence as I understand, assuming that's what you are getting at.

I'm in South Texas. I have no use for a fireplace. (Lots of home have them here) Chimneys attract vermin. Mine is completely sealed.
 
That's what keeps eating at me. They are not behaving like people on the run. They do not appear nervous in interactions with the police, not just now but going back to CV's shooting. I live here in Hawaii and, trust me, it would be VERY easy to just disappear here, at least on the Big Island. We have lap-of-luxury places, but you'd be tracked there. We also have beautiful places where no one would every find you. With a little money you can hire people to turn your little place into luxury.

They could start going by Kada and Loli (Hawaiian versions of their names), befriend a few locals and let them know the heat is on and half the island would protect them. It did not take me long after I moved here to figure that out so given Loli's history I'm sure she is aware of that.

I have a friend who is a cop here and after telling him where I live (behind a gate, half a mile up a private road, and 200 yards down my private driveway) he told me he could never take a call to my house unless I, as the owner, called 911 from my property...and I'd have to give them the gate code because, while the fire department has it, the police do not. Unless I were accused of a very serious crime, it would be hard to get a search warrant because the judge would question why they are intruding on my privacy. He used to work on the mainland and says being a cop here is a joke because they are so restricted and short handed. They can't do much more than respond to immediate emergencies and write traffic tickets to raise money for the county. Please don't take this as disparagement of LE, far from it. We have a huge ice problem and lots of petty crime like theft. They just don't have the resources to deal with it and the county will never have the budget to get them the resources they need. Every time a tourist gets bit by a shark, has a purse snatched, or gets their car broken into it takes all of the police resources for one quarter of the island for a up to half a shift. A car accident is similar. If someone is seriously injured or killed, the police are 100% shut down for most of that day on at least half the island!

Look into what is going on in Honolulu right now. The police chief was indicted on federal corruption charges as as was his wife a senior prosecutor. Her boss the city/county prosecutor was recently forced out as well for helping her. Her brother, a prominent doctor and her were indicted for drug trafficking by the feds. No one in authority in Hawaii acted. They were not even investigated. Other senior cops assisted in their crimes. The feds had to step in. My point is, this is the wild west, unless you are on drugs, it's very easy to get away with almost anything. Even murderers don't get long sentences the first couple of times. McGarret is not on the job here!

My partner has a very close relative who has been on the "run" here since shooting at the cops a couple of years ago. She has no idea where he is of course but another relative of hers, a cop, joked at a family event recently that they'll never find him because he just isn't a priority. That's the way things are here. It's not that the cops are incompetent. It's just that it's a vast area, mostly remote, and the tax base only supports a tiny police force. Kauai is not much different. They could easily blend in and disappear yet they chose not to.

My point is only that this would be an easy place to just disappear even if you had killed half a dozen people. Lori would have known that. Yet they chose to leave tracks and be in the open. That confuses me. Maybe it's just narcissism and not being capable of tasting death. But it could also be innocence. MM

Narcissism.....I sensed that at Charles' shooting.
 
It is quite possible that they signed a contract that allowed the home to continue to be shown and even sold. The lease would simply transfer to the new owner. Don't know the specific requirements in Hawaii, but in the states I've lived/rented it, showing a place simply requires notifying the tenants with the appropriate amount of time. The tenant isn't usually required to not be home, but it's often preferred, by both the landlord and the tenant. I can easily imagine C & L not wanting to be home when the place was shown.

----------------------------------------

The real question, though, is where are they tonight, if they checked out of the Mariott? They're gonna run out of high-end motels near the airport, sooner or later, lol.

For a short term rental i Hawaii (less than 120 days I think) there are no rules. Whatever contract is signed governs. Almost every vacation rental contract is going to have a clause allowing showings as well and maintenance and so forth. Mine always did with 24 hours notice. Guests are generally very understanding about that. The one time someone complained I offered them a couple of drink coupons and they were happy.
 
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