Found Deceased ID - Joshua Vallow, 7, & Tylee Ryan, 17, Rexburg, Sept 2019 *mom, stepfather found* #15

[jjenny]

I hope she is, if she’s got an ounce of common sense left...she is...MOO. Sometimes what they don’t say is actually more telling than what they do MOO.

They didn't have time to include everything. I sincerely doubt there is any cooperation going on with her.

 

[CSIDreamer]

That is an interesting theory. Perhaps Lori coordinated Alex and ZP’s marriage in order for Alex to get a “free” name change to disguise his identity, hence the “cold” ceremony with no witnesses.

Then, when the heat was on, Lori may have given ZP the go ahead to get rid of Alex in the same (or similar) way that worked so well with Tammy. (Or asked Alex to take his own life in that manner.)

Based on Lori’s friend in the Dateline episode, Lori views death as a simple movement through a doorway, so she wouldn’t feel upset for orchestrating anyone’s death, as she is so confident about everyone’s status on the “other side”.

BBM.

Question on that. I know suicide is a hotly debated action in Christianity. So I won't go there.

Does the Mormon religion consider suicide an unforgivable sin or a byproduct of mental illness, meaning it's considered like any other illness? Jmo

 

[oviedo]

15th Feb 2020

KPVI News: "Woodcock says authorities have shared with them why no arrest has been made but he says he cannot share that with the public at this time."

LW: "For the sake of those children we're going to give them our [confidence?]. We are not going to jeopardise this case in any way."

LW: "All I want to do is keep the media out there and find that one person that has seen these kids, who knows where these kids are and will say something."

LW: "I can tell you this from what I've been told, by some friends of ours, that the island is really getting tired of them."

Thanks to everyone for keeping their media thread updated - I quickly caught up and still find it unbelievable they can’t arrest these two or at least L since she did not produce the kids
JMO

 

[Rush4087]

If there were 4 or 6 involved in a conspiracy to accumulate assets and raise money asap in preparation for the July '20 end times:

For her part, Lori, at least at first glance, appears to have struck out - as CV removed her from his life insurance policy before his death. She may still receive some assets through probate though..

If MB was behind the attempt on BB's life (for the same reasons as Lori above), she too appears to have struck out.

CD may have done alright.. but I don't think we know for sure if TD had significant life insurance coverage to begin with (or that CD increased the amount).

Then there's AC... I guess I just assumed AC had failed. His contribution had seemingly just been muscle. He hadn't been married while everything else was going on. But mickey2942 brought up a good point about whether AC might've had a substantial life insurance policy

If he did, given his relationship with Lori one would just assume that Lori would've been the named beneficiary. This would seem to add a fourth possible explanation for AC's death (natural causes, self poisoning due to guilt, poisoned by Lori and/or CD because he knew too much, and poisoned by Lori and/or Chad and/or ZP to collect life insurance proceeds to benefit the overall plan).

If it was the latter, perhaps Lori didn't strike out after all - or maybe ZP just came through in the clutch for the group. Also, AC could've selflessly sacrificed himself (suicide) so that his life insurance benefits (assuming there were some) would go to at least some member of the group.

After learning from dateline how close Lori and Zulema were (and for how long), it looks like ZP might've been an insider all along. Plus, if ZP was deep into the cult, it changes my thinking on whether AC was just muscle - or if he drank the kool-aid as well (maybe bolstering the suicide hypothesis).

Idk if AC's taking ZP's last name in the marriage would've changed any payouts or probate in the event of AC's death, but maybe he and/or ZP thought it might.

If ZP was deep in the group, her getting the proceeds (instead of Lori) wouldn't have seemed to matter much in the grand scheme of things, and maybe Lori agreed. Or maybe Lori didn't agree.. in which case Lori struck out a second time. Couldn't have happened to a nicer person

 

[Tortoise]

He use to facetime his grandparents, bet he did have one. Also, she didn’t seem to have issue spending others money, so I don’t think she cared much about cost.

Oh yes, I realized I was going to reply to that post earlier and I forgot. JJ did have an IPad. That was what he used when he last connected with Kay and Larry in August - it was one of the things that he was very attached to. It was also mentioned in Charles' divorce petition as Lori had taken it and she had to return it. He was also playing on it the day the dog handler came to collect Bailey.

 

[smucklecrumble]

MOO
Let me start by saying I have no clue what the motive is behind all of this nor do I have any clue the fate of those poor kids.
What I am fairly confident about is whatever this is about, it was premeditated.
Lori apparently thought she was going to be able to collect $1 million life insurance beneifits on her deceased. That may of been what was going to finance the plot?
I also been thinking about whats behind these marriages too. All 3 of them are vey suspicious. Could it be they are using them as a legal protection to prevent from being forced to testify against eachother? I just cant figure out how to explain why these people would all suddenly get married.
I know we are limited in what we can sleuth but I don't think we are gonna understand what happened until we learn more about this cult they belonged too and the new spouses and what roles they play in all of this.

As far as I’m aware spousal privilege any protect you against conspiracy to commit murder

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

Has anyone found evidence to who may have predicted a precise date of July 22nd? Is it a Chad date? Is anyone else touting that specific date?

 

[Secretly a Secretary]

Dateline showed a brief clip of the church Lori and Charles attended when living in Hawaii. Is the church she and Chad attend?
I would assume if they were living in a condo in close proximity to the house Charles and Lori lived in it would be. Didn’t Charles and Lori rent the house in Hawaii? The program led me to believe they still owned it, but not by specifically saying it.

 

[indicolite22]

HE seems genuinely satisfied that there will be a better outcome than most people think including myself. I wonder what he knows that could jeopardize this case potentially... There has to be some crucial info not yet in play within the public domain that might get revealed in days to come..

His words tell me that at this point the police don't have proof that the children are dead, so he's holding onto hope.

 

[utahobserver]

Whoa. That's a huge revelation that Brandon also thought it was a paintball gun at first. I've been saying for a while that Tammy's "Paintball gun" incident could have involved a real gun with a silencer and the shooter simply missed her. Google the sounds a paintball gun makes and the sound a gun with a silencer makes (it's not silent). They sound similar IMO. It would be easy for Tammy to think it was a paintball if she had only ever heard a paintball gun before. There's no reason Tammy would have experience with silencers but she had 5 grown kids and volunteered with the youth at her church, so she could have heard paintball guns firing before.

MOO.

Agreed! Earlier in the threads there had been a discussion of silencers. This confirms that theory and gives credence to the same shooter in both instances, which seems to point to Alex. This puts Alex in Rexberg on October 9th. Dateline said Tammy had been shot at multiple times and we know the shooter clearly missed. This now confirms LE searching for shell casings in the snow in January 2020.

I am just reading through this thread this morning so not caught up yet. Forgive duplicate information.

Nate and Keith Morrison basically agree that the 2 men at the storage unit were Alex and Chad. If it was Chad, Chad most likely let Alex get away when Tammy called for him. Circumstantial at best, but since it is now confirmed that Chad knew Alex, LE may be building a conspiracy to commit murder case here. Especially if they find casings that match a gun of Alex’s.

 

[spandangly]

The quick marriage thing is definitely puzzling, and it certainly appears to be more than just a coincidence. I have found nothing online though in any of the group forum/blog sites that CD and Lori (and I guess AC and MB and ZP and others) participated in that indicates a possible reason for it.

That said, I think it is more likely to be a "preparation for the end times" action than it is to be an attempt to avoid being forced to testify against a spouse. It's been discussed at length in previous threads that spousal privilege only exists after the date of marriage, not before, - and that spousal privilege doesn't exist in potential child abuse cases anyway.

What I have read about this faction

Tangent: (I don't think cult is quite right. This isn't a group with a leader. This is a disgruntled group of LDS ppl with shared interests who are feeding off of each others' "visions". They call themselves the Remnant, not to be confused with the Snuffer Remnant, and about 3 other Remnant-named LDS offshoots). I'm choosing faction because they are mostly LDS members in good standing who think they have a higher/different calling than the Prophet of the mainline LDS church. MOO end tangent.

What I have read is that you must be married *to a believer* to be a leader in the end times. MOO that is the only reason the additional couples re/married so quickly. Chad and Lori, I believe had additional motives--like list.

MOO

 

[Tutter]

That she was known to have 2 children, and family members say they have not seen or heard from the children for many months.

When police have tried to do wellness checks, she has lied about their whereabouts.

So she should be put in custody until she reveals their location. JMO

also, if she is receiving social security benefits for children not in her care/and or deceased, that should be enough to bring her in.

I think if they will cut off all their money, we may see some results.

where is Melani? Is she missing or unknown? She may be the last hope as to them being with her, alive.
For that matter, where is Zulema, they could be with her too.

 

[investigatefred]

For everyone's saying Alex was a "professional" with guns, he obviously missed his target with BB (thank God!) and as it appears, with Tammy also. MOO...

 

[CSIDreamer]

What I have read about this faction

Tangent: (I don't think cult is quite right. This isn't a group with a leader. This is a disgruntled group of LDS ppl with shared interests who are feeding off of each others' "visions". They call themselves the Remnant, not to be confused with the Snuffer Remnant, and about 3 other Remnant-named LDS offshoots). I'm choosing faction because they are mostly LDS members in good standing who think they have a higher/different calling than the Prophet of the mainline LDS church. MOO end tangent.

What I have read is that you must be married *to a believer* to be a leader in the end times. MOO that is the only reason the additional couples re/married so quickly. Chad and Lori, I believe had additional motives--like list.

MOO

Chad and Lori call themselves the remnant? Where are you finding this? Jmo

 

[squareandrabbet]

Lori views death as a simple movement through a doorway? For others, I presume. I notice she herself is in no hurry to go through the doorway.

Oh, but of course not, Lori is needed to be a warrior leading her 144,000 people to victory. (*nods*) /sarcasm

I also note in the deadly checklist, that if Lori's not particularly perturbed about death and we know neither is Chad, from Chad's friends' discussion about his near death experience writings, this increases the likelihood that C&L would attach no great import to disposing of JJ and Tylee.

 

[BigAl16]

DBM

 

[holsen]

Oh yes, I realized I was going to reply to that post earlier and I forgot. JJ did have an IPad. That was what he used when he last connected with Kay and Larry in August - it was one of the things that he was very attached to. It was also mentioned in Charles' divorce petition as Lori had taken it and she had to return it. He was also playing on it the day the dog handler came to collect Bailey.

I've read somewhere here that LV got rid of JJ's ipad - does anyone have the details on that? How do we know she got rid of it? Or how did she get rid of it?

 

[Onsdag]

New interview with Fremont County Sheriff:

Still listening to it myself. Only new bit of information I've picked up on is mention of Chad "heading up" an organization in the area and having a surprising number (to the sheriff) of followers living in the area. I'm pretty sure he was referring to AVOW, but as he didn't specifically name this group then we can't officially discuss them here...

For reference this part of the interview starts at the 4:50 mark. Transcript as follows (BBM):

Q: And on social media there's been some kinda weird rumors about what's happened, one I saw like several times was about some sort of cult that they might be in, is there any type of, I don't know, any sort of truth to that?

A: Well I think there was an organization here that Chad Daybell was promoting or heading. I don't know a lot of details about it. I didn't know they existed here, but it has become apparent that he did have a significant following.

Q: And was it kinda like a doomsday type of thing, or the second coming, was something like that?

A: Yeah, along those lines. I don't know a lot of the details. I know that he was a publisher of a number of books along that topic.

Q: What would you say a pretty good following is?

A: I'm just gonna take a wild guess and say more than 10 and... I don't know... I have no way of knowing how many people there were, but I have been surprised by how many people did know him and followed his uh... teachings I guess would be the word I'd use.

Q: Huh. So he was I guess pretty known around Rexburg or the county?

A: I... I didn't... Like I said I didn't know him, but there were certainly a number of people in the area who did know him.

The *organization that demands to not be named or associated with Chad and Lori* does not match the sheriff's description as Chad was only a guest speaker/podcaster with them. However, there is another organization *cough*AVOW*cough* that is headquartered in the area *cough*Rigby*cough* that focuses on doomsday and second coming type of things, of which Chad has/had a prominent position wherein he can promote and/or control the narrative, thereby gaining a "significant following," which more perfectly matches the sheriff's description. MOO.

FWIW some corroborating evidence of Chad's involvement in this organization that is headquartered in Rigby may have been shared with a certain news/media outlet that also has a presence in that part of Idaho...

 

[utahobserver]

This is what I learned that was new:

• Lori was a fitness instructor
• Lori met Chad at the group that we cannot name Podcast in February 2018
• Lori and Tylee stayed with her friend in Hawaii during January/February 2019 when Lori leaves Charles
  • Friend reports extreme change in Lori’s behavior- disorganized, talking manically about Chad and end times
  • Tylee may be depressed or behaving like a bored teenager (sleeping a lot) at this time. Speculated by Keith that all the obsessive talk about death by Lori may be depressing her
  • Tells Friend that Friend is chosen to be one of the 144k to be saved.
  • Tells Friend that Charles is a demon. Expects him to die soon. Reiterates basically the behavior Lori stated in police report when she reported her purse having been stolen by Charles (he is mean, abusive, unfaithful, etc).
  • Friend doesn’t believe it.
    
  • Lori leaves Hawaii abruptly
  • Friend hears that Lori is back with Charles and assumes happy reconciliation
  • Lori knew ZP (Alex’s new bride) as early as January 2019. She told Lori’s Hawaii Friend that she was amazing and could control the elements
    
  • Lori is not afraid to die. Compares it as if walking from one room to another
  • Lori is not upset by other people dying based on this concept of this changing room transition
• Dateline has the Chad and Lori podcasts but likely for legal reasons, could only play a snip of one, Lori affirming Chad’s beliefs
• Chad and Lori returned to Rexberg after their wedding- no date given
• Chad definitely knew Alex and Alex became one of his followers . They referred to this as one of the “group”
• Dateline and Nate believe 2nd man at Storage Unit is Chad

MOO, I took away from the show that LE do not believe the children are alive and that they may never find them. This is very hard for me to accept. It seemed to implicate Alex as a murderer of Charles and attempted murderer of Tammy. He followed Chad and may have been considered angel/protector of Lori. There seems to be enough circumstantial evidence for conspiracy to commit murder across state lines. Only upside I hope is that they charge all of them - LVD, CD, ZP, MB, IP and anyone else the Feds can find. I continue to have strong faith in the Feds pulling this mess together.

Personally, when Lori is arrested I would appreciate LE removing her sunglasses and stepping on them.

 

[holsen]

A few of my key takeaways from Dateline last night and things I didn't know:

Any mention of Lori's son CR was strangely absent. MB wasn't really discussed either. I'm now curious if they're material witnesses (as well as ZP) or what's going on there. Where are they, what are they doing?

All those really heavy totes being carried into and out of the storage unit. Yikes.

Lori's friend in Kauai - lots of information from her, which was illuminating. But it made me feel concerned for her safety that she revealed all of that and is living near them in Kauai.

BB thought the gun was a paintball gun at first... TD thought it was a paintball gun.

Rexburg LE waited two weeks before doing the welfare check for JJ.

The history of the relationship between Lori and ZP, and Loris admiration of her "abilities," don't remember how they worded it - I didn't realize the extent of that.

I would like to know when are/were the dates for their flights to Mexico.

I could clearly feel that the people being interviewed have been coached on what and what not to say, so that they wouldn't compromise the investigation or even so that they would potentially help the investigation.

I agree with whoever said that the escalator at the end was a nice touch. It was also a bit frustrating because I've lost hope that the kids are alive (okay, maybe there is a tiny bit there), and these two seem so smug and are running around free --

-- even though my brain realizes that LE is going through the necessary process. This is all clearly a bigger ongoing investigation than I realized, at least in the beginning. I feel that there is so much that LE (and those close to this case) knows that we don't, and I'm now more curious than ever. I just hope nothing else happens to anyone before there is resolution.