IL - Child, 9, charged in fire deaths of 5 people, Goodfield, 6 Apr 2019

[Kakidoll]

LBM

Agreed.
Some thoughtful posts here !

I have my reasons for not fully trusting "mom".

please share those reasons. I'm right there with you....

 

[jjenny]

I just don't entirely understand why arson equals homicide. Why isn't it accidental death? Or do we know he started the fire with the intent to kill? I have a cousin whose son set their home on fire around that age. He hid behind a sofa playing with a lighter and set the sofa on fire supposedly on purpose. So if someone was unable to get out and died he'd have been accused of murder?

I can definitely see a child deliberately setting a fire. BUT not even thinking clearly enough at the time that it might not be able to be put out and burn the whole home down. And definitely not thinking ahead enough to grasp that the fire might kill people. Kids can be really stupid and he looked really impulsive in the videos I saw of him.

Death from a fire would only be accidental death if a fire wasn't caused by someone else. As for us "knowing" I presume police and DA have the evidence, not us. Since the suspect is a minor, we aren't even supposed to know what evidence is there.

 

[Safeguard]

I haven't been back here in a while...

I dont think there's too much more to learn about this case.

Terrible parents screwed their kids. End. Of. There's no shortage, sadly.

What was novel, was a nine year old killed half a dozen people. Most parents would agree that they are responsible for their nine year old children.

Go back through my posting history and you find that I am the least likely to "Parent Bash", but in this case?
I feel perfectly ok saying both these parents sucked at parenting, and it sure looks like they came from a long line of mental issues ... And, unpopular as this will be, they likely produced more of the same.

There's no shortage people. If you find this case fascinating, dig in. For myself, Chitty parent cases are not worth the time. You reap what you sow.

 

[LietKynes]

please share those reasons. I'm right there with you....

This thread has some of the reasons.
The videos of the family are hideous.
Especially the abusive fiance and the one where she is naked in bed with the two year old niece.

Many strange accounts and it's still not clear how this fire started and how the 9 year old was blamed.
Imo.

For starters, the conflicting 'stories' she gave.
First there was : "Mom" was standing in the hallway by the furnace talking to her fiance with the 2 year old visitor standing by her--- she smelled something weird, and "Boom", the furnace exploded and she was 'ushered' out of the trailer by the fiance.
Just her and not the two year old.

Then there was : They were all sleeping and unfortunately mom and 9 year old made it out and while the rest of them burned, mom could hear their screams and talked to them through the window --telling them how much she loved them.

There might be a third iteration but I figuratively walked away from this thread as the key players were making me want to throw up.
Mom wants money through at least 2 g -f. -ms for the van which they'd been making payments on.
She claimed that the 9 year old had a plethora of disabilities but there's no record of his being treated for any.

On and on.

 

[claudicici]

I haven't been back here in a while...

I dont think there's too much more to learn about this case.

Terrible parents screwed their kids. End. Of. There's no shortage, sadly.

What was novel, was a nine year old killed half a dozen people. Most parents would agree that they are responsible for their nine year old children.

Go back through my posting history and you find that I am the least likely to "Parent Bash", but in this case?
I feel perfectly ok saying both these parents sucked at parenting, and it sure looks like they came from a long line of mental issues ... And, unpopular as this will be, they likely produced more of the same.

There's no shortage people. If you find this case fascinating, dig in. For myself, Chitty parent cases are not worth the time. You reap what you sow.

So you believe because of his parenting this child doesn't deserve a chance? Do you believe because of parenting those babies deserved to die? Do you believe the senior citizen living with them deserved to die? Nothing to discuss here... parenting ....you reap what you sow.....

 

[Safeguard]

So you believe because of his parenting this child doesn't deserve a chance? Do you believe because of ****** parenting those babies deserved to die? Do you believe the senior citizen living with them deserved to die? Nothing to discuss here...****** parenting ....you reap what you sow.....

Not at all. Merely noting that tragedy was inescapable. The whole trajectory was a train weck. You wouldn't have to do much sleuthing to figure out what happened. All thats left is pointing fingers at the parental/family flaws, which just feels voyeuristic to me. imo

 

[katydid23]

Not at all. Merely noting that tragedy was inescapable. The whole trajectory was a train weck. You wouldn't have to do much sleuthing to figure out what happened. All thats left is pointing fingers at the parental/family flaws, which just feels voyeuristic to me. imo

But the case has not been resolved yet. We don't even know who actually started the damn fire. If it wasn't the child, I sure as he!! don't want him blamed for it. I stay here, watching and waiting, hoping we get more info and clarity, and can be watchdogs if necessary. Something is not right with Mom's story.

 

[beatrixpotter]

I personally don't necessarily assume they have the evidence and so have the basis to accuse him. I've seen before where someone was arrested and accused of something and they clearly didn't have it.

Like when they arrested that father and said he raped and strangled one of his twins baby girls. I believed it at first just because they accused him. Surely they'd not do that without evidence. The autopsy is available. There is literally NO evidence on there of sexual assault. And yet he sits in jail accused of it waiting for trial. It makes no sense to me.

So I'm not going to assume there is no one who is just over zealous here. You could very EASILY get a 9 yo to say something stupid or admit guilt when they didn't mean what they said. And this poor kid clearly doesn't have parents looking out for his best interests. Even if we have proof he set the fire I'm very suspicious of accusations or admittance that he set the fire with the intent to kill a giant chunk of his family. I think stomping on a baby's head repeatedly gives a heck of a lot more idea of intent to kill than setting a fire in a home where a bunch of people can't get out in a short period of time.

 

[LietKynes]

Highlighting obvious dysfunction in a family that resulted in (possibly) a 9 year old murdering most of his own family is not really pointing fingers; imo.

My opinion is also that they themselves put out the horrific family abuse videos; and not someone spying on them in a voyeuristic way.
They wanted these videos out in the public.

At any time, mom could have deleted these videos from Kyle's account or banned him from uploading. She chose not to do this.
I have only viewed the baby hitting clip.
Have heard on this thread about mom's video of herself unclothed with the niece or her own toddler, but refrained from watching it.
One abuse video was more than enough.
Hitting a baby is unforgivable.
Once seen... it can't be unseen, unfortunately.

Kyle needs to be separated from that woman for the remainder of his life if he is to have any chance.
And talked to in depth about what happened that night.

His mother claimed that he suffered from many disabilities. Was he diagnosed and treated ?
She appears to be playing the professional victim and will continue to use Kyle for his disability checks-- but with the money going towards the van or other uses.
And not for his treatment.

Let's face it-- he may not have all of the issues she claims he does.
Adhd, schizophrenia, bipolar, etc.... Not sure if there's any I've missed.

 

[LietKynes]

New article, mom says the kid was recently diagnosed with schizophrenia, ADHD and bipolar disorder, and showed interest in fire and lighters. Can schizophrenia and BPD actually be diagnosed as young as 9? (I think he was actually 8 when the fire occurred)

Boy, 9, charged with murder in deadly fire is named and pictured | Daily Mail Online

Is there any evidence that mom and fiance spent money to help Kyle after his diagnosis ?
And is there evidence that he had all of these ?

 

[Alethea]

Not at all. Merely noting that tragedy was inescapable. The whole trajectory was a train weck. You wouldn't have to do much sleuthing to figure out what happened. All thats left is pointing fingers at the parental/family flaws, which just feels voyeuristic to me. imo

This tragedy was inescapable? I think the thousands if not millions of children who suffer various forms of abuse and neglect yet go on to become productive adults would disagree. People are interested in this case specifically because most abused 9 year olds don’t go on to set their homes on fire.

 

[jjenny]

Because the suspect is a minor, we are not going to know what evidence they do or don't have in this case. While we are speculating, it's possible they have a strong evidence because this kid liked to take a video of the things he was doing. Just as in any trial, DA is going to present evidence, and if there is a reasonable doubt on who is responsible, the child should not be convicted.

 

[jjenny]

Is there any evidence that mom and fiance spent money to help Kyle after his diagnosis ?
And is there evidence that he had all of these ?

What evidence do you expect? His medical record are protected, so no medical professional is going to come forward to either confirm or deny. So how exactly could we have any evidence one way or the other? We only can go by what mother claims, which you can either believe or not.

 

[claudianunes]

I'm sure I remember seeing Kyle say in one of his videos that they had taken his puppy away,but he didnt say why.

He did say that the puppy was taken away and that he was sad about it, something along those lines.

Not at all. Merely noting that tragedy was inescapable. The whole trajectory was a train weck. You wouldn't have to do much sleuthing to figure out what happened. All thats left is pointing fingers at the parental/family flaws, which just feels voyeuristic to me. imo

What...?

What evidence do you expect? His medical record are protected, so no medical professional is going to come forward to either confirm or deny. So how exactly could we have any evidence one way or the other? We only can go by what mother claims, which you can either believe or not.

Mommy was really busy talking about how Kyle had all of these medical issues, if any help was provided to him, I would assume that she would talk about it too. As in "Kyle has this, this and that and we put him in therapy" or something like that. I don't think anyone here wants the medical records of a 9-year-old boy to be made public.

 

[jjenny]

We don't know when Kyle wad diagnosed (if he was). It could have been after the fire. He is not living with the mother anymore, he is currently with paternal grandparents. They could have taken him for a diagnosis. And if anybody would be taking him for therapy at this time, it wouldn't be the mother. Again, he isn't living with the mother.

 

[Safeguard]

This tragedy was inescapable? I think the thousands if not millions of children who suffer various forms of abuse and neglect yet go on to become productive adults would disagree. People are interested in this case specifically because most abused 9 year olds don’t go on to set their homes on fire.

I hear what your saying. But if these children had been raised in this family, the potential for them to be unhealthy adults was huge. Both Nurture and Nature were against them.

I do realize there are a percentage of abused/neglected children that grow into decent people, likely because someone intervened, and or they had the misfortune of being exposed to unhealthy persons to whom they were not genetically related, but the disfuncton wasn't in the very dna of the family tree, for many of the ones who have brighter futures. (and I would suggest, the percentages are far lower than, "millions"!).

The "elderly" victim, looked in those videos, to be almost a Carbon Copy of Mom.

Amost any fate would be preferable to that. Even if kyle were imprisoned for life, (and I know, thats not what will happen, of course, just making a comparison here.) , it would be better than the sentence he was given at birth.

At least, in prison, he would have stability, structure, consistency, rules to follow to alow him the opportunity to function normally within the society, (institution), in which he found himself, and experience success.

Were as before, he could never be certain how to act, day to day, or even moment to moment... And therefore unpredictably of temperament, values and lifestyle would have been his "normal" too.

Cases like the little girl, abducted and killed by her homeless uncle, who's sister invited him into her home to spend the night, are the ones that are, for me, where attention is drawn more sympathetically.

Because the adults in this case, were living by a bluepint they drew up
and/ or, were both born with and aproved of. And it was a Bluepint for tragedy imo.

And it was far more likely to have been repeated generationaly.

Not saying these poor people deserved what happened to them. No one does.

Just that any fate was preferable to the one they were living. imo

I do concede, that his age and his crime, make it an interesting case to follow and discuss. It just doesn't seem "puzzling" to me, that this family is the one that produced this terrible result.

The boy was known to play with fire. Maybe he just wanted to see fire trucks and the ensuing attention. I don't see a killer at all, or any conspiracy involving his crazy mother.
ajmo...

All violent deaths are horrible. But some families suffer unexpected tragedy, others put out the Welcome Matt for it.

 

[mickey2942]

But the case has not been resolved yet. We don't even know who actually started the damn fire. If it wasn't the child, I sure as he!! don't want him blamed for it. I stay here, watching and waiting, hoping we get more info and clarity, and can be watchdogs if necessary. Something is not right with Mom's story.

I agree, something is "off". That being said, the police have a story that matches evidence. If no one comes forward with a confession, there is not a lot that can be done. Frustrating, no doubt, for everyone.

Hopefully, this child can grow up in a more stable environment. Being taken away from his Mother is probably the best thing that could happen for this kid.

 

[katydid23]

Is there any evidence that mom and fiance spent money to help Kyle after his diagnosis ?
And is there evidence that he had all of these ?

I don't believe he has been fully or formally diagnosed with all of those illnesses. JMO IMO MOO

 

[LietKynes]

We don't know when Kyle wad diagnosed (if he was). It could have been after the fire. He is not living with the mother anymore, he is currently with paternal grandparents. They could have taken him for a diagnosis. And if anybody would be taking him for therapy at this time, it wouldn't be the mother. Again, he isn't living with the mother.

Yes, I know he isn't currently living with his mother.
Should have clarified.
I meant he should never be returned to her.
His best chance is treatment and/or prison. A structured environment.
Sad when incarceration is a better choice than your relatives.
Someone raised that mother and the fiance.
Some types of dysfunction are generational.

 

[jjenny]

They can't incarcerate him because of his age. He can only get probation, and even that only until he turns 21. One can only hope that his paternal grandparents are responsible people that can provide him with a structured environment.