IL - Christian, 9, & Grace Vasilev, 3, stabbed to death, 27 April 2005 *Insanity*

[SandyBee]

The stabbings came five years after the couple's 3-month-old daughter died in a fire at an Elk Grove Village town house where the family then lived. The cause of the 2000 fire remains undetermined, but foul play was never suspected, said Larry Hammar, deputy chief of the Elk Grove Village Police.

Hammar said his department will investigate that fire again. The mother was home at the time of the blaze.

This has all taken place close to my home, and I do remember the Elk Grove Village fire a long time ago. I don't remember the details as it was a long time ago, but I thought they were evaluating the Mom because her story didn't sound right. I never heard anything about it again, until now. Pretty scary. Killing your kids is the worst crime possible but one has to wonder about the 200 times deal. That's psychotic. Sure hope she never sees the light of day again. Poor kids.

 

[IrishMist]

Wonder if anything new will be found about the first child that died? Sounds like they'd better re-investigate, if they can. Probably too late to learn anything, though, huh?

I'm curious to hear what her story is...

Thanks for posting this, dasgal, I hadn't heard about it.

 

[mollymalone]

I saw that. It's awful. I did see where they said they would be investigating that first child's death.

 

[cami]

I saw that. It's awful. I did see where they said they would be investigating that first child's death.

I heard about this over the weekend. Over 200 times each!!!! Good Lord those poor children. I wonder if she killed that first baby. Why do these mothers do this? I just can't fathom why someone would kill their own children and so brutally. She must be very mentally ill.

 

[RobertStJames]

Did you guys see this?
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/04/29/children.stabbed.ap/index.html

Ok, this is what a "killer mommy" really looks like:

Investigators believe she was at home Wednesday night when Christian and Gracie Vasilev were killed. The children's father and a friend who had been living with the family discovered the bloody scene when they arrived home that evening.


Note: she did it while her husband was not home.


The little girl and the children's mother were both upstairs. The girl was dead, and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands
[i/]

Note: minor hand cuts, probably from the knife slipping. Not deep stab wounds on the right arm of a right-handed woman, not a deep slash on the neck, not severe bruises on the undersides of both arms.

And one of her other children died in mysterious circumstances in a fire several years ago, which points to a pattern that is totally absent for Darlie Routier.


RstJ

 

[cami]

Ok, this is what a "killer mommy" really looks like:

Investigators believe she was at home Wednesday night when Christian and Gracie Vasilev were killed. The children's father and a friend who had been living with the family discovered the bloody scene when they arrived home that evening.


Note: she did it while her husband was not home.


The little girl and the children's mother were both upstairs. The girl was dead, and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands
[i/]

Note: minor hand cuts, probably from the knife slipping. Not deep stab wounds on the right arm of a right-handed woman, not a deep slash on the neck, not severe bruises on the undersides of both arms.

And one of her other children died in mysterious circumstances in a fire several years ago, which points to a pattern that is totally absent for Darlie Routier.


RstJ

Sorry but the doctors who treated Darlie disagree with you on the severity of her injuries. There was no "deep" stab wounds on Darlie at all. She has surface slashes not deep stab wounds. Since when can't a right handed person use their left hand to inflict a slash wound or even a stab wound on their right arm? Easily done.

8 Q. All right. About how long was this
9 wound?
10 A. It was about 10 centimeters
11 approximately.
12 Q. Now, did you get out and measure it
13 yourself with a ruler?
14 A. No, I didn't. I estimate the length
15 of wounds.
16 Q. And did you measure the depth of the
17 wound at all or was it an estimation?
18 A. Well, I usually don't measure the
19 depth. We don't think in those terms. I would call it a
20 superficial wound.
21 Q. Okay. And what do you mean by a
22 superficial wound?
23 A. I mean by a superficial wound that it
24 did not penetrate any of the deeper structures, you'd
25 call a deep wound would penetrate the muscles, the
1 vessels. It just penetrated basically the skin and the
2 subcutaneous tissue, which is what we refer to as the
3 fat, underlying the skin. And there's a muscle in the
4 subcutaneous tissue in that area of the neck called the
5 platysma, which it also penetrated. That was the extent
6 of the injury.
7 Q. So it cut through the skin, the fat
8 and then what y'all call the platysma?
9 A. Platysma, yes.
10 Q. Which is located in the --
11 A. In the subcutaneous fat.
12 Q. Which is the fat. Right?
13 A. Yes, sir.
14 Q. Okay. Did you see any other injuries
15 on her, and treat other injuries while she was being
16 operated on?
17 A. I didn't specifically -- the other
18 residents sewed up the wounds on her shoulder and her
19 arm, they were irrigating the wound.
20 Q. Where was the wound on her shoulder?
21 A. The wound on her shoulder overlied the
22 top of her humerus, the bone here. And it was also a
23 superficial wound, it was just closed with sutures.
24 Q. Okay. Just closed it with sutures?
25 A. Yes.

1 Q. And, was there another wound on her
2 right arm?
3 A. There was a wound on her right arm on
4 the -- what we call the dorsal aspect, about right here.
5 And it was approximately an inch long. It was also
6 superficial. It was down to the bone in that point. But
7 the bone at that point is very superficial in the arm.
8 And these wounds did not approach any dangerous
9 structures.
10 Q. Let me show you what's been marked as
11 State's Exhibit 28-B.
12
13 25 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: I'll caution you
1 to keep your voice up.
2 THE WITNESS: Okay.
3
4 BY MR. TOBY L. SHOOK:
5 Q. If you'll step back so all the jurors
6 can see.
7 A. Okay.
8 Q. Looking at State's Exhibit 28-B, do we
9 see the two wounds you treated on the neck and shoulder?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. And if you would just point those out
12 to the jury.
13 A. This is the neck wound that we
14 explored right here. And this is the shoulder wound
15 which we closed primarily.
16 Q. Just cleaned it out and sewed it up?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Then 28-A, is this the wound here on
19 the right forearm?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Again, was that just cleaned and then
22 sewn up?
23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. You say it went to the bone?
25 A. Yes. On this part of the forearm
1 there's a -- the bone is not very far under the skin.
2 Q. Okay.
3 A. And it went through the muscle, to the
4 bone, but there was no fracture. There was no fracture.
5 Q. So the bone is very close to the skin
6 here?
7 A. Relatively close, yes.
8 Q. So, we see another wound here, just
9 above that wound. Was that also present?
10 A. Yes, it was. That was simply a
11 superficial abrasion which we did nothing about.
12 Q. Okay. All right.
13
14 MR. TOBY L. SHOOK: Go ahead and have
15 a seat.
16



Are you disputing this testimony? If so, why? I'm just curious that's all. Are you a doctor?

Darlie is a first time offender. Where does it necessarily follow that you have to commit previous crimes in order to murder your own children. Did Susan Smith? I know you don't want to believe that Darlie is guilty but she is. The evidence all points to her, not Darin.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Robert, there is no "text book" example of what is supposed to take place in the days/hours before a mother slaughters her children. Just because one woman did it a certain way, doesn't mean that all mothers must follow suit. This second mother gave no warning signs in the days/hours leading up to the murders. She snapped. It happens all too frequently.

 

[dasgal]

...and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands-Robert

You mean just like Darlie? I don't see where you think the big difference is.

 

[RobertStJames]

...and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands-Robert

You mean just like Darlie? I don't see where you think the big difference is.

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ

 

[dasgal]

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ

a. self inflicted
b. accidentally self inflicted
c. did not have when admitted to hospital
d. did not have when admitted to hospital
e. self inflicted

So, what is your point?

 

[Mary456]

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ

I must ask...why do you keep insisting that the knife penetrated the bone in Darlie's arm when the doctors clearly said it didn't?

 

[Goody]

Darlin had
a) minor cuts on her hands
b) two stab wounds, one into bone, on her right forearm
c) bruises on the underside of both arms
d) bruises around her wrists
e) a slash across her throat.

There's no comparison.


RstJ

Note, the cut on Darlie's arm was only about an inch deep because that is as deep as it could go before hitting bone. It did not cut into the bone, the cut went TO the bone and stopped. In another post, you said it was three inches deep. Not so.

O, and only one stab wound on her right arm. There is one little hesitation wound that some think might have been her first attempt at stabbing herself. I am still open on that one.

Also, the bruises were on her right arm, both wrists. I saw a movie the other day with a woman trying to frame a guy for rape. She stuck her arm in a cabinet and opened and shut the door on it several times. I couldn't help but think of Darlie. Desperate people do desperate things.

And as long as we are talking about injuries, let's not forget the little fingernail scratches on the underside of her chin, which probably were put there by Devon as he tried to push her off of him and escape that blade.

 

[Goody]

Ok, this is what a "killer mommy" really looks like:

Investigators believe she was at home Wednesday night when Christian and Gracie Vasilev were killed. The children's father and a friend who had been living with the family discovered the bloody scene when they arrived home that evening.


Note: she did it while her husband was not home.


The little girl and the children's mother were both upstairs. The girl was dead, and her mother had what appeared to be minor cuts on her hands
[i/]

Note: minor hand cuts, probably from the knife slipping. Not deep stab wounds on the right arm of a right-handed woman, not a deep slash on the neck, not severe bruises on the undersides of both arms.

And one of her other children died in mysterious circumstances in a fire several years ago, which points to a pattern that is totally absent for Darlie Routier.


RstJ

What about the woman who stoned her children to death? She did it while her husband slept in the master bedroom. Sound familar?

No pattern of past abuse, but she was psychotic. However, Susan Smith, Diane Downs, and Darlie were not. A little screwy maybe, but not psychotic.

 

[mollymalone]

I heard about this over the weekend. Over 200 times each!!!! Good Lord those poor children. I wonder if she killed that first baby. Why do these mothers do this? I just can't fathom why someone would kill their own children and so brutally. She must be very mentally ill.

I think she did the first child too. Very mentally ill or something.

 

[RobertStJames]

What about the woman who stoned her children to death? She did it while her husband slept in the master bedroom. Sound familar?

No pattern of past abuse, but she was psychotic. However, Susan Smith, Diane Downs, and Darlie were not. A little screwy maybe, but not psychotic.

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Susan Smith was a chronic alcoholic carrying on three affairs at the same time. Diane Downs had a sick obsession with a guy in Arizona.

Show me anything even remotely similar in Darlie's background.


RstJ

The only thing in Darlie's background that can come close to answering the "why" question is her history of narcissistic personality disorder. Darlie only cared about Darlie. If it wasn't happening to her, it didn't matter.

 

[RobertStJames]

I must ask...why do you keep insisting that the knife penetrated the bone in Darlie's arm when the doctors clearly said it didn't?

Because the testimony says, quite clearly, that is *did*

This is Parchman being questioned:


21 Q. Yes. Um-hum. And, did the physician
22 who was there (ER), that you, whose name you can't recall, did
23 he tell you that the one wound was -- did more than just
24 penetrate the skin?

25 A. He said the larger wound on her right
1 forearm went to the bone.
2 Q. Went to the bone?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. That's as far as it could go, I guess,
5 isn't it?
6 A. Well, if you examine that portion of
7 your right forearm, you're virtually over bone.
8 Q. Well, didn't you --
9 A. I'm just saying you don't have to go
10 very far in terms of portions of an inch --
11 Q. Yes.
12 A. -- to get to the bone.




I think that's perfectly clear, don't you? Knife wound to the bone.

That's not superficial damage, nor does any claim that she switched knife hands to wound herself make any sense at all.


RstJ

 

[Jeana (DP)]

Bull. A person's forearm doesn't have a heck of a lot of meat on it. It wouldn't take much at all to have a knife "go to the bone." Take a look at State's Exhibit 87A if you want to see what it looks like for some force to be behind a knife.

 

[RobertStJames]

Bull. A person's forearm doesn't have a heck of a lot of meat on it. It wouldn't take much at all to have a knife "go to the bone." Take a look at State's Exhibit 87A if you want to see what it looks like for some force to be behind a knife.

We weren't talking about the amount of meat on a person's arm. We were talking about the knife going to the bone.


RstJ

 

[Jeana (DP)]

We weren't talking about the amount of meat on a person's arm. We were talking about the knife going to the bone.


RstJ

If the knife doesn't go through the "meat" on the arm, it doesn't get to the "bone." There isn't that far to go unless you're talking about one hell of a fat forearm.