Found Deceased IL - Vanessa Ceja Ramirez, 22, murdered, Midlothian, 2 Nov 2020

[birdclown]

Thank you for the actual links Falling Down, appreciate it.

In one of those articles, it mentions how the dogs picked up her scent at 151st and Pulaski -- I read this somewhere else also. This is odd because, some have said this is the area where the body was eventually found. My point is, if the dogs picked up her scent there, how didn't they find the body until Wednesday? I'm assuming the dogs were brought in before Wednesday.

Does anyone know which trail she and her family were walking along? Just trying to track where between the trail her family is on (where she was), their parked car (where she was heading) and 151st and Pulaski (roundabout where she was eventually found).

Thanks!

 

[Userid]

Does anyone know which trail she and her family were walking along? Just trying to track where between the trail her family is on (where she was), their parked car (where she was heading) and 151st and Pulaski (roundabout where she was eventually found).

Thanks!

No, I'm sure the police know the exact route they took but it wasn't released to the public as far as I know. The Tinley Creek Trail is the trail they were on, but we don't definitively know where the car was parked, whether they headed north and walked almost the entire trail, or whether they went south initially. I took my best guess on page 3 (post number 54 and 59), based on where she was "last seen" Bremen Grove and where I think her car was parked -- if you haven't already, try to check those google maps I posted and see if it makes sense.

The thing that makes it tricky in pinpointing their exact route is the fact that the victim was last seen in Bremen Grove, which is not a part of Midlothian Meadows. It's tricky because there are a network of forest preserves in the area, not just Midlothian Meadows. The Tinley Creek Trail extends through all of these forest preserves. https://fpdcc.com/downloads/maps/trails/english/FPCC-Tinley-Creek-Trail-Map-10-15.pdf

 

[birdclown]

If her remains were found near 151st and Pulaski, there are a few easy access points from Pulaski if the perp was driving or walking. Plenty of parking options close to the preserve with visible access to the trails.

Pulaski has a ton of intersections, businesses, residencies, and also a high school- all of these directly border the forest preserve and remains site. Imagine afternoon high school traffic... lots of time to sit and stare. And lots of new cars and new people all the time. People in this neighborhood wouldn't find it weird to see an unfamiliar car parked in a neighborhood, cul de sac, or in the trail parking lot.

The other 2 immediate borders of the triangular park are also possibilities. The southern street is 159th and has high visibility to the trails, but very few intersecting cross streets and stop signs, therefore faster traffic and fewer opportunities to look away from the road.

The diagonal border of the preserve is a Metra train track and Midlothian Creek (very small). If you follow the google maps links, you can basically follow the power lines from this neighborhood all the way to 151st and Pulaski. There is a ton of natural cover, easy to walk, quick access to the trails, and could be scouted and revisited by riding the Metra. This could be someone who is familiar with this area: it's an advantageous hunting ground with an active victim pool. It's a secluded outdoor area off main roads which help make an easy escape after leaving the crime.

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏
خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏

 

[Charlot123]

Either that or he wasn't necessarily trying to burn the entire body, but only parts of the body, perhaps to destroy his DNA evidence. I hate to even bring this up, but it could also could have been part of the "torture" that the neighborhood activist spoke about.

Even if she was gagged, the pain is such that she would have screamed. So I hope it was PM. If burns were incurred when she was alive - I think prehistory for the perp should have been torturing/burning insects and animals.

 

[legalmomma]

Univision Chicago in their video coverage of the murder, showed the location of her cell phone's last ping as the Manchester Court Apartments, which is located at
14730 Central Ave, Oak Forest, IL 60452

No, I'm sure the police know the exact route they took but it wasn't released to the public as far as I know. The Tinley Creek Trail is the trail they were on, but we don't definitively know where the car was parked, whether they headed north and walked almost the entire trail, or whether they went south initially. I took my best guess on page 3 (post number 54 and 59), based on where she was "last seen" Bremen Grove and where I think her car was parked -- if you haven't already, try to check those google maps I posted and see if it makes sense.

The thing that makes it tricky in pinpointing their exact route is the fact that the victim was last seen in Bremen Grove, which is not a part of Midlothian Meadows. It's tricky because there are a network of forest preserves in the area, not just Midlothian Meadows. The Tinley Creek Trail extends through all of these forest preserves. https://fpdcc.com/downloads/maps/trails/english/FPCC-Tinley-Creek-Trail-Map-10-15.pdf

I'm very confused on the locations. they were in Midlothian Meadows, but she was last seen at Bremen Grove 3.3 miles away? Then you add where the phone pinged -Manchester Court Apartments. خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏‬‏‏

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm very confused on the locations. they were in Midlothian Meadows, but she was last seen at Bremen Grove 3.3 miles away? Then you add where the phone pinged -Manchester Court Apartments. خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏‬‏‏

The exact route the family took on their walk/run hasn't been fully revealed. Sounds like they parked in a Midlothian Meadows lot, started walking the trails, got as far as the Bremen Grove part of the trail system, at which point they separated and Vanessa started walking back toward their car.

Her body was found in Midlothian Meadows and the phone ping was indeed a few miles away at the Manchester Court Apartments.

Seems like the working theory is that she wasn't with her phone when it last pinged.

 

[Knox]

Police were called, and helicopters and dogs were dispatched to the 2-square-mile, triangle-shaped wooded area. They picked up Ceja Ramirez's scent at 151st and Pulaski and then her cellphone's last ping, which led investigators to an apartment building 2 miles away in Oak Forest. A police canvass found nothing.
$10K reward offered for information in Harvey woman's murder, disappearance in Midlothian forest preserve

The trail near 153rd & S. Pulaski Road in the Midlothian Meadows Forest Preserve, where police found the body of Vanessa Ceja-Ramirez.
(Bill Jones / Daily Southtown)
Activists increase reward to $9,000 in ‘heinous and blatantly evil’ death of Harvey woman found in Midlothian forest preserve

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏!

So if I understand this right - dogs picked up Vanessa's scent @151st & Pulaski.

Vanessa's body was found @153rd & Pulaski.

Bremen Forest comes into play because of the flyer family made right after she went missing. They listed Bremen Forest as her "last seen" location-11/2@4:00PM.

 

[Falling Down]

Police were called, and helicopters and dogs were dispatched to the 2-square-mile, triangle-shaped wooded area. They picked up Ceja Ramirez's scent at 151st and Pulaski and then her cellphone's last ping, which led investigators to an apartment building 2 miles away in Oak Forest. A police canvass found nothing.
$10K reward offered for information in Harvey woman's murder, disappearance in Midlothian forest preserve

The trail near 153rd & S. Pulaski Road in the Midlothian Meadows Forest Preserve, where police found the body of Vanessa Ceja-Ramirez.
(Bill Jones / Daily Southtown)
Activists increase reward to $9,000 in ‘heinous and blatantly evil’ death of Harvey woman found in Midlothian forest preserve

خرائط ‪Google‬‏‏!

So if I understand this right - dogs picked up Vanessa's scent @151st & Pulaski.

Vanessa's body was found @153rd & Pulaski.

Bremen Forest comes into play because of the flyer family made right after she went missing. They listed Bremen Forest as her "last seen" location-11/2@4:00PM.

Thank you for all of this important information, the initial info put out to the public was confusing, to say the least.

 

[Baciagalupo]

What a horrible crime, I hope they find her killer fast, scary to have such a dangerous individual running free!

 

[LadyL]

I'm surprised there hasn't been an arrest yet. I think they already have their suspect. They're just building a case IMO.

 

[Yemelyan]

I'm surprised there hasn't been an arrest yet. I think they already have their suspect. They're just building a case IMO.

I think you are right. LE hasn't asked for the public's help and are keeping very quiet. Usually that's a good sign that they have a lot to work with.

 

[Knox]

I'm surprised there hasn't been an arrest yet. I think they already have their suspect. They're just building a case IMO.

I agree, removing things from an apartment where the cell phone pinged tells it all.

 

[SAMS]

Following

 

[Charlot123]

I guess the biggest question for me is figuring out where the murder took place. If somebody just lured her or forcibly took her off of the trail and committed the crime there, then that is confident, brash and risky. I would guess that that means this isn’t the first time the killer has done something like this.

And it seems like a random crime of opportunity, so even though she doesn’t fit the victim profile of the other stranglings in the Chicago area since 2001, I wouldn’t necessarily rule that angle out. The partially burned body is at least a potential link to some of those other cases too.

We know that even some of the most cruel serial killers have just seemed like normal guys or even family men to the people in their respective personal lives before they get caught. What if this seemingly normal guy was just out for a normal activity and saw an opportunity when she was alone and nobody was around and felt comfortable or confident in committing those horrible crimes because they had already done it multiple times without getting caught.

It also seems like a lot of serial killers escalate and end up taking more risks until they get caught. If this potential serial killer had become comfortable targeting the disadvantaged, then this would definitely be an escalation in my opinion. They could have acted out of character and committed an opportunistic crime outside of their MO, panicked when they saw the phone thinking she might have recorded something (not out of the question to think she was taking pictures or selfies while walking) and grabbed it, or maybe just stole it, and didn’t realize that it would ping towers until it was too late.

I would need to know for sure where she went missing and where her body was found and whether or not they have the cell phone. Also, aren’t cell phone pings kind of unreliable? At least sometimes? Like, even if it pinged from those apartments, it doesn’t necessarily mean that the phone was there? I don’t know.

Alright, that’s my rambling theory, but I understand people being skeptical of that potential link. Either way, I’m glad those cases were brought up, because I didn’t know about them and over 50 is quite a lot in around 20 years, even for an area with such a huge population.

Your theory, that he might have been targeting sex workers, and this time simply saw the opportunity sooner, sounds probable to me. Especially if he is a SK, and grabbed her phone out of fear.

With sex workers, the problem is, they are migrating, and it might take a few days or even, months, before someone realizes that they have disappeared. Other girls might even think, or "hear", that such-and-such moved to a better place. Many victims are never found.

So tracking their phones might be a moot point.

What I want to say, the guy who was successfully killing sex workers, might be emboldened by his luck, and make the mistake with Vanessa's cellphone.

 

[jillybean51]

The exact route the family took on their walk/run hasn't been fully revealed. Sounds like they parked in a Midlothian Meadows lot, started walking the trails, got as far as the Bremen Grove part of the trail system, at which point they separated and Vanessa started walking back toward their car.

Her body was found in Midlothian Meadows and the phone ping was indeed a few miles away at the Manchester Court Apartments.

Seems like the working theory is that she wasn't with her phone when it last pinged.

Possible that someone found her phone on the ground ,after being dropped,and took it back to their apartment,thinking they found a “free” cellphone.

 

[MntnHiker]

I'm just seeing this thread today. How horrific! I am in IL but this is the first I'm hearing of Vanessa.

One thought on the phone pinging -- most apartment complexes where I live have dumpsters in the parking lot for residents to dump their trash. Since the apartment complex is close by, the perp may have driven by and quickly tossed her phone into the dumpster. By the time police even arrived there, the dumpster may have been emptied. Just MOO

 

[Yemelyan]

Without knowing more, it definitely could be that the phone pinged there by an "innocent" action. And I would hate to be that person who thought it was a good idea to pick up that abandoned cell phone if so because there are going to be a lot of questions.

However, if the articles are true that cite residents of the complex saying bags of evidence were removed from an apartment there, then that gives credence that there may be more to the story.

 

[coastal]

Weird thoughts that I have sometimes- why couldn’t I have been on that trail, at the same time, with one of my pointy eared dogs and made the bad guy(s) detour away from her

Its a beautiful thought, an extrordinary thought. Thanks for thinking it out loud.

 

[evilwise]

I can't imagine that someone premeditated enough to be walking around with a bottle of accelerant would be so careless as to then take her phone back home with him though one of his associates might. The burned body smacks to me of gang activity although they usually do it in an abandoned building so probably just inspired by gang mode of operation.

I think this was someone who knew her or who picked her up from the park. I think that she was lured back to that apartment which is the location in which she was assaulted (bags containing bedding and rugs and stuff), that's why her phone was on up until that time - she went willingly. I can't imagine that a ping would be accurate enough to identify a specific apartment in an apartment complex so I lean toward the suspect having some established relationship to the victim.

As far as the abundance of strangled sex workers in the Chicagoland area, while it might be accurate to say that one or probably more "serial killers" are operating there, it's more of a social/cultural problem than what you might think of when you think about investigating serial killers and one that requires more of a social/cultural solution than stopping a traditional serial killer.

 

[Yemelyan]

I can't imagine that someone premeditated enough to be walking around with a bottle of accelerant would be so careless as to then take her phone back home with him though one of his associates might. The burned body smacks to me of gang activity although they usually do it in an abandoned building so probably just inspired by gang mode of operation.

I think this was someone who knew her or who picked her up from the park. I think that she was lured back to that apartment which is the location in which she was assaulted (bags containing bedding and rugs and stuff), that's why her phone was on up until that time - she went willingly. I can't imagine that a ping would be accurate enough to identify a specific apartment in an apartment complex so I lean toward the suspect having some established relationship to the victim.

As far as the abundance of strangled sex workers in the Chicagoland area, while it might be accurate to say that one or probably more "serial killers" are operating there, it's more of a social/cultural problem than what you might think of when you think about investigating serial killers and one that requires more of a social/cultural solution than stopping a traditional serial killer.

I agree that a ping would likely not be accurate enough to identify a particular apartment, but we know from articles that police canvassed the entire complex so perhaps in the course of their interview process/canvass, they developed probable cause to search a specific one.

I would question why, if a perpetrator lured/abducted her from the trail system and assaulted her at an apartment, he would then choose to return her body to an area so very close to where he took her. This seems like a really brash/risky decision if so, as it involves physically moving a body in and out of a vehicle at more than one location.

I think it's more likely she was assaulted and killed at the location she was eventually found but the perpetrator perhaps returned later to try to burn/eliminate evidence.

Just some thoughts based on typical offender behaviors.