Deceased/Not Found IL - Yingying Zhang, 26, Urbana, 9 June 2017 #11 *GUILTY*

[AnemoneBrown]

I care that there maybe someone else who knows where YY is. IF MZ knows the slightest clue LE could get it out of her with a threat of incarceration. In my opinion (not fact), MZ is too selfish to do hard time for that fool. She will sing like a bird if she knows something and her freedom is at stake.

I am also feeling encouraged by the film and all the exposure and pressure this will produce. Crazy, but now I'm feeling we will maybe not find her but will know where she is or was at.

Just my opinion, not fact.

It matters nothing what anybody believes, none of it will lead to a search for YingYing.
Michelle won't talk.
He won't talk and as nobody is talking, nobody is acting.
It's a shame, the whole thing , isn't it?
We came here to find YY.
Two years later can we even say for certain that she's really dead?
I don't honestly think we can though we can certainly assume it with a degree of confidence.
It is not a certain thing.

 

[kittythehare]

I care that there maybe someone else who knows where YY is. IF MZ knows the slightest clue LE could get it out of her with a threat of incarceration. In my opinion (not fact), MZ is too selfish to do hard time for that fool. She will sing like a bird if she knows something and her freedom is at stake.

I am also feeling encouraged by the film and all the exposure and pressure this will produce. Crazy, but now I'm feeling we will maybe not find her but will know where she is or was at.

Just my opinion, not fact.

Realistically, they had Michelle, she told them a lot.
Much more than we know but certainly enough to know that not only was he capable of doing it, but he also did it.
If she had known more at the time or subsequently, they would know too. Whereas it's marginally more entertaining to pursue Michelle than count manholes in Champaign, it's not gonna find YY.
I believe that if she knew of the location of her remains, LE would know that she knows.

I hope known friends, associates and family will be watched for a time on the off-chance any of them goes to move anything resembling YY's remains.
I hope but I really don't know for sure.

 

[JaneEyre]

I care that there maybe someone else who knows where YY is. IF MZ knows the slightest clue LE could get it out of her with a threat of incarceration. In my opinion (not fact), MZ is too selfish to do hard time for that fool. She will sing like a bird if she knows something and her freedom is at stake.

I am also feeling encouraged by the film and all the exposure and pressure this will produce. Crazy, but now I'm feeling we will maybe not find her but will know where she is or was at.

Just my opinion, not fact.

I believe it’s still possible that MZ could wrangle her whereabouts from him. I really wish her compassion for YY’s family had outweighed her compassion for BC. She could have used the influence she has over him to find YY. IMO, she likely did not try because she likely did not care a great deal. IMO, MZ and BC were made for each other in how selfish they both are.

Edited autocorrect nonsense

 

[AnemoneBrown]

That's where I'm at. Great comment.

I believe it’s still possible that MZ could wrangle her whereabouts from him. I really wish her compassion for YY’s family had outweighed her compassion for BC. She could have used the influence she has over him to find YY. IMO, she likely did not try because she likely did not care a great deal. IMO, MZ and BC were made for each other in how selfish they both rare.

 

[JaneEyre]

It matters nothing what anybody believes, none of it will lead to a search for YingYing.
Michelle won't talk.
He won't talk and as nobody is talking, nobody is acting.
It's a shame, the whole thing , isn't it?
We came here to find YY.
Two years later can we even say for certain that she's really dead?
I don't honestly think we can though we can certainly assume it with a degree of confidence.
It is not a certain thing.

I am certain, based on the evidence, that YY is dead. It’s a bit of an odd thing to question on a board where most contributors are angry he didn’t get the DP. I don’t know how anyone can be both disappointed that he did not get the DP for killing her and also not be able to say they are certain she is dead.

 

[dm92]

I believe it’s still possible that MZ could wrangle her whereabouts from him. I really wish her compassion for YY’s family had outweighed her compassion for BC. She could have used the influence she has over him to find YY. IMO, she likely did not try because she likely did not care a great deal. IMO, MZ and BC were made for each other in how selfish they both rare.

If ANYONE can get YY's location, or at least information on what he did and where he did it, it would be Michelle. She is the only one he cares about.

I don't know what her issues are. I know she dislikes and does not trust investigators, but if she refuses to help out of loyalty to BC, that would be simply disgusting. YY's remains, and information on their disposal, aren't his property. They aren't some sort of trophy for him to gloat over.

 

[Webthrush]

If ANYONE can get YY's location, or at least information on what he did and where he did it, it would be Michelle. She is the only one he cares about.

I don't know what her issues are. I know she dislikes and does not trust investigators, but if she refuses to help out of loyalty to BC, that would be simply disgusting. YY's remains, and information on their disposal, aren't his property. They aren't some sort of trophy for him to gloat over.

I think the best possibility now is a jailhouse snitch... BC is so proud of what he did he'll brag to someone in there about what an ingenious fellow he is (I still find it incredible that he blabbed to TEB as much as he did given their short acquaintanceship, but he couldn't contain himself). I also think the Defense attorneys know much more, but probably no way to pressure them to tell.

 

[kittythehare]

If ANYONE can get YY's location, or at least information on what he did and where he did it, it would be Michelle. She is the only one he cares about.

I don't know what her issues are. I know she dislikes and does not trust investigators, but if she refuses to help out of loyalty to BC, that would be simply disgusting. YY's remains, and information on their disposal, aren't his property. They aren't some sort of trophy for him to gloat over.

If he cared about Michelle, he would not have been having an affair with facebookWoman since 2016.
fBI would not have needed to interview 'multiple sexual partners of his.
If he cared about Michelle and his marriage he would have done a heck of a lot more to get his act together.
He only cared about Michelle as a bread winner.
She spoilt him completely.
She was his enabler.
But there is nothing to suggest she was a co-conspirator.
Or that she has special powers to make him talk.
OR that he would tell her anything at all.
His court room persona was an act.
BC is blaming Michelle just as much as he is blaming TB.
Recall the convo with TB where he told her that Michelle had told the police everything.
How can speculation on Michelle lead to the retrieval of YY's body?

 

[kittythehare]

I care that there maybe someone else who knows where YY is. IF MZ knows the slightest clue LE could get it out of her with a threat of incarceration. In my opinion (not fact), MZ is too selfish to do hard time for that fool. She will sing like a bird if she knows something and her freedom is at stake.

I am also feeling encouraged by the film and all the exposure and pressure this will produce. Crazy, but now I'm feeling we will maybe not find her but will know where she is or was at.

Just my opinion, not fact.

I only want to find her, that is all, nothing else and nothing less.

 

[dm92]

I think the best possibility now is a jailhouse snitch... BC is so proud of what he did he'll brag to someone in there about what an ingenious fellow he is (I still find it incredible that he blabbed to TEB as much as he did given their short acquaintanceship, but he couldn't contain himself). I also think the Defense attorneys know much more, but probably no way to pressure them to tell.

*That* would be a good possibility, too. HE will certainly want to impress people there. It would take some time before anything develops on this front, sadly. He won't be transferred for another 30 days or so, IIRC, and I think that when he arrives, he will be in isolation for a time while he is evaluated.

I go back and forth about his attorneys. Sometimes I think they must know everything/a lot, other times I think they just know the bare minimum: his opinion on whether or not her remains can be found with his help. As you mentioned the other day, there is no way to get anything out of them unless he should happen to expire unexpectedly. That has to be an awful feeling for them if they *do* have very helpful information: seeing how much her family is suffering, but knowing legally and ethically they *can't* divulge anything without their client's permission. It's almost a sick joke how her body/info on how it was disposed is treated like it is his property......

 

[trunkizback]

I think the best possibility now is a jailhouse snitch... BC is so proud of what he did he'll brag to someone in there about what an ingenious fellow he is (I still find it incredible that he blabbed to TEB as much as he did given their short acquaintanceship, but he couldn't contain himself). I also think the Defense attorneys know much more, but probably no way to pressure them to tell.

This is why I think he DID tell MZ everything. He told a girl he only knew a few months but not his wife? Not buyin that

 

[kittythehare]

This is why I think he DID tell MZ everything. He told a girl he only knew a few months but not his wife? Not buyin that

the facts are that he confided in Michelle in December 16 and what he told her scared her enough to contemplate ending their marriage.
Michelle testified that he was a liar and secretive.
BUT suppose this train of Michelle attacking was based on facts, where are they?
How will it lead to finding YY's remains?
Somebody going to call her up and ask?

 

[JaneEyre]

If he cared about Michelle, he would not have been having an affair with facebookWoman since 2016.
fBI would not have needed to interview 'multiple sexual partners of his.
If he cared about Michelle and his marriage he would have done a heck of a lot more to get his act together.
He only cared about Michelle as a bread winner.
She spoilt him completely.
She was his enabler.
But there is nothing to suggest she was a co-conspirator.
Or that she has special powers to make him talk.
OR that he would tell her anything at all.
His court room persona was an act.
BC is blaming Michelle just as much as he is blaming TB.
Recall the convo with TB where he told her that Michelle had told the police everything.
How can speculation on Michelle lead to the retrieval of YY's body?

It’s not that she has special powers, and he also doesn’t need to genuinely care about her for him to be obsessed with her. I believe he is. He probably is not capable of healthy, genuine love. But men like this have other strong feelings that pass for love in their minds. Whatever we or he chooses to call it, his strongest emotions are geared toward her.

 

[JaneEyre]

the facts are that he confided in Michelle in December 16 and what he told her scared her enough to contemplate ending their marriage.
Michelle testified that he was a liar and secretive.
BUT suppose this train of Michelle attacking was based on facts, where are they?
How will it lead to finding YY's remains?
Somebody going to call her up and ask?

You bring up a good point that he likely has not already told her (I never thought he did - only that he could). But still, as someone who knows him well, she may have some ideas and she could certainly work those ideas into conversations with him to pump him for info. Because now she knows he's guilty anyway. It won't change however she feels about him after knowing that anyway.

 

[Webthrush]

<snip>....
I go back and forth about his attorneys. Sometimes I think they must know everything/a lot, other times I think they just know the bare minimum.... <snip>

The reason I think it likely the Defense lawyers know a lot is because they were very, very particular and nuanced about the wording of the possible plea agreement before it fell apart. (It could just mean that they know the body is irretrievable without a lot of specifics… or it could mean they know the specifics).

 

[dm92]

the facts are that he confided in Michelle in December 16 and what he told her scared her enough to contemplate ending their marriage.
Michelle testified that he was a liar and secretive.
BUT suppose this train of Michelle attacking was based on facts, where are they?
How will it lead to finding YY's remains?
Somebody going to call her up and ask?

I don’t think of questioning and wondering about MZ as “attacking” her; I think of it as simply curiosity and suspicion of her based on her erratic behavior over the past two years. She starts out as you say: troubled at his behavior, then shocked into contemplating divorce based on his revelations about his desires re serial killing. She then pulls back on that but suggests opening the marriage.

Immediately after the event, she cooperates fully with investigators initially; urges BC to go with investigators for an interview, tells them all his secrets, consents to the search, asks Tenaglia about a restraining order. She later urges BC to go and talk to the FBI again at the suggestion of Tenaglia; also, she stops sleeping with him -sleeping in the office and putting something on the door to alert her if he comes in.

Then, for whatever reason, she starts resisting the investigation and supporting BC; she starts sleeping with him again; talks with her lawyer cousin and says there is nothing BC can tell the investigators that will help him, tells BC that she thinks the FBI is trying to turn them against one another, freaks out when the news reports the FBI announcing they have found the car used to pick up YY. She keeps in close contact with him while he is incarcerated.

She divorces him, and everyone assumes it is because she has found out he is guilty after the DNA evidence comes in; but in February of 2019, she testifies for the defense at a hearing trying to suppress evidence gathered at the apartment on June 15, 2017. After the hearing appearance, she argues with people on Facebook who call her out for trying to get evidence thrown out and still supporting her husband. She doesn't outright defend BC in these arguments, but she doesn't go out of her way to condemn him, either. She basically just calls everyone stupid for questioning her and her testimony. She continues to keep in touch with him. At the trial, she wears a red sweater -apparently at his urging. Of course, then there is the call on June 19th, AFTER his defense team has admitted that BC killed Yingying, where she is insulting Bullis and appears to be upset at Bullis' actions overall.

Then, she has to be subpoenaed to come and testify for the penalty phase, and appears more cold toward him (was this simply damage control for her reputation as she had come off as awful-sounding on the June 19th phone call in the wake of BC's admitted guilt of murdering YY?). Yet, BC asks to be sent to Tucson -presumably, no -almost CERTAINLY- so MZ can easily come to visit him in prison.

So, basically..... WTF is going on with her? I know *I* don't have a clue. This hardly seems like the 2-year path of someone who outright condemns her husband and his actions, and no longer wishes to have any association with him.

I don't think she had any knowledge about BC's intentions on the 9th. I don't think she had anything to do with planning BC's actions, or helping him cover them up afterward. I don't think she is some evil mastermind pulling his strings. I really don't know quite what to make of her. But, I do know this: IF she cares anything about YY's family and has *ANY* sympathy for them, now would be the time for her to use whatever influence she has to get this monster of an ex-husband of her to tell her family what he did with her body, so they can figure out what to do next; so they can have a chance of healing as much as possible, and moving on with their lives. Regardless of what she thinks of the FBI and prosecutors, regardless of what she thinks of Bullis, she should help YY's family. BC is convicted and sentenced now, so it is time to drop this ridiculous game of BC acting like YY's remains are his property, and acting like information on the disposal of her remains is his intellectual property.

 

[kittythehare]

I think it's a repetitive distraction from any and all suggestions of a search or likely or possible locations, despite being informed that UIC police are open to suggestions and have not abandoned the search at all.

 

[JaneEyre]

Without something to go on, without a starting point, we are spinning our wheels regarding a search. Since that - finding YY’s remains - is the only priority left now, it’s natural to discuss how on earth LE could get something to go on. The best answer is Michelle.

I hope, now that the trial is over, that the FBI is or will attempt once more to get her to work with them on this task. I feel like they will attempt it. Unfortunately, I’m not sure she will help. She is able to move out west and put this all behind her. And that is likely her priority now - to get back some semblance of normal for herself. I wish someone close to her would tell her that the best way to do that is to help get closure for all on this, to help find YY’s body.

 

[dm92]

Withot something to go on, without a starting point, we are spinning our wheels regarding a search. Since that - finding YY’s remains - is the only priority left now, it’s natural to discuss how on earth LE could get something to go on. The best answer is Michelle.

I hope, now that the trial is over, that the FBI is or will attempt once more to get her to work with them on this task. I feel like they will attempt it. Unfortunately, I’m not sure she will help. She is able to move out west and put this all behind her. And that is likely her priority now - to get back some semblance of normal for herself. I wish someone close to her would tell her that the best way to do that is to help get closure for all on this, to help find YY’s body.

From the trial, it doesn’t sound like she has many people close to her. One of the things odd about both her and BC that came out of the trial was that neither had many friends. They basically had only each other. She apparently is no longer dating the guy she went away for the weekend with when BC committed the crime. She has a cousin who is a lawyer, and there is no telling what that person is advising.

Not promising that someone close to her would advise her to help locate YY, when the person closest to her is BC.....

 

[JaneEyre]

From the trial, it doesn’t sound like she has many people close to her. One of the things odd about both her and BC that came out of the trial was that neither had many friends. They basically had only each other. She apparently is no longer dating the guy she went away for the weekend with when BC committed the crime. She has a cousin who is a lawyer, and there is no telling what that person is advising.

Not promising that someone close to her would advise her to help locate YY, when the person closest to her is BC.....

Right. Their entire relationship was odd and unhealthy. My husband and I are both introverts, but even we have a small group of friends in our lives (mostly other introverts). Did we hear from any witnesses who knew them as a couple? It doesn’t seem so. Between that and the lack of any kind of decor or personalization in that apartment, the word “barren” comes to mind for me.

You are right that there will probably not be anyone in her life who will encourage her to do the right thing.