Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - #155 *Richard Allen Arrested*

[Marysmith]

It’s seems kind of shocking that an accused person can be locked up in a possible death penalty case without an attorney representing him for almost a month. Even if he said he would get his own attorney, I think normally a public defender is appointed until that happens (according to Scott Reich of the Crime Talk YouTube/podcast)

I also have a tough time with the government locking up anyone on secret evidence that the public is not allowed to see. I get we don’t need to see all or even most of the evidence, but I would think a minimum to reach probable cause needs to be made public.

MOO

Totally agree! I would think he would have had access to a Public Defender while waiting for his own private Attorney. Unless he waived it somehow. I know someone that did but had to go before a judge and say that and the same thing as this, once he found out the cost double backed. But this was a matter of a few days, not this long. And it was for a parole violation, not a murder charge.

 

[m00c0w]

It’s seems kind of shocking that an accused person can be locked up in a possible death penalty case without an attorney representing him for almost a month. Even if he said he would get his own attorney, I think normally a public defender is appointed until that happens (according to Scott Reich of the Crime Talk YouTube/podcast)

I also have a tough time with the government locking up anyone on secret evidence that the public is not allowed to see. I get we don’t need to see all or even most of the evidence, but I would think a minimum to reach probable cause needs to be made public.

MOO

He waived counsel. He can do that. It was dumb, but it’s his own fault.

MOO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

MOO

One of the purposes of using self deleting apps is so that there isn't a track for LE to follow.

The phone will have a record that the app was deleted. What is downloaded from something sent/received on that app will not be deleted automatically. Except for one phone, KK phones/devices were taken in a search warrant before he could do that.

You say KK didn’t use burner phones… I’d posit that we don’t have nearly enough information to claim that as fact.

I said apparently KK didn't use burner phones. They didn't even ask him in the interrogation transcript. Why would he conduct CSAM activity on phones in his name and then get a burner phone for what? Why not do all your crimes on a burner phone? Why not keep your library there?

the charges being dropped, the charges being modified, the continuance, the ongoing negotiations are all

The prosecutor stated they didn't have the evidence for the 5 (dropped) charges to get a jury to convict. It's also expected for plea negotiations close to trial, the prosecutor doesn't seem ready if they are just now confirming what the evidence supports. The defense has a right to ask for yet another continuance, a 3rd or 4th trial delay, the prosecutor didn't object. In my opinion, it is pretty standard compared to other CSAM cases that take nearly 2 years to be adjudicated, with a guilty plea at the last minute. Many defendants prefer to serve as much time as possible in jail, before being sent to prison.

DOCS: Indy man had sex abuse material of infants on phone, sentenced to 12.5 years

INDIANAPOLIS — An Indy man already in jail on drug charges will spend another 12 years in prison after police found a slew of child *advertiser censored*, showing infants as young as 6 months old, on his electronic…

www.wane.com

the river search, the charges being dropped

I-Team 8: Is there any correlation between those charges being dropped and the search that was performed in the Wabash River?

ISP Superintendent Carter: No, absolutely not. I think he was charged with 30 counts, and they have dropped five, so it is 25. So, it is important the case has not been dropped against Kegan Kline

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

 

[Trebor5591]

He waived counsel. He can do that. It was dumb, but it’s his own fault.

MOO

no he didn't waive counsel. he said he would find his own counsel. Until he wrote the letter from jail, asking they appoint a public defender because he can't afford an attorney.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

Is there a link regarding stolen items from the neighbor? If so, was there an arrest?

I have a link to stolen tools that RA reported but it wasn’t from a neighbors house.

Police Calls - Carroll County Comet

Police reports are gathered from available records on file at local police departments. This information is a matter of public record and does not imply guilt or innocence. Information for fire reports is also gathered from reports on file with local fire departments. Sheriff’s Dept. March 10...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

 

[m00c0w]

no he didn't waive counsel. he said he would find his own counsel. Until he wrote the letter from jail, asking they appoint a public defender because he can't afford an attorney.

At the initial hearing, he would have been asked his intentions and if he wanted public representation. He declined public representation and said he would seek his own attorney. We know this from Diener’s controversial order. Because he declined public representation, the portion of the hearing did not take place to determine if he was indigent and required a public defender. That hearing now has to take place, and will take place on 11/22 according to the new judge. RA did this to himself.

MOO

 

[twall]

I have a link to stolen tools that RA reported but it wasn’t from a neighbors house.

Police Calls - Carroll County Comet

Police reports are gathered from available records on file at local police departments. This information is a matter of public record and does not imply guilt or innocence. Information for fire reports is also gathered from reports on file with local fire departments. Sheriff’s Dept. March 10...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

How do you know that is the same RA?

 

[Spartygirl]

Also - just by the tone of his voice -
He sounds serious - like he has a plan. I think if he was just casually there and then got set off or angry it would come across in his tone.
He just sounded like he was there to do what he did and he was telling them down the hill because he knew exactly where they were going and what he was going to do.

Yes
He was on a mission, he knew they were going to be there, JMO

 

[m00c0w]

MOO

The phone will have a record that the app was deleted. What is downloaded from something sent/received on that app will not be deleted automatically. Except for one phone, KK phones/devices were taken in a search warrant before he could do that.

This is not necessarily true. WhatsApp and Signal, for instance, store messages in an encrypted database. If the app is deleted, even if the database could be recovered after the fact, it would still be encrypted and unable to be read. This also ignores the concept that there could be another device they were unaware of and would be unaware of until told of its existence.

I said apparently KK didn't use burner phones. They didn't even ask him in the interrogation transcript. Why would he conduct CSAM activity on phones in his name and then get a burner phone for what? Why not do all your crimes on a burner phone? Why not keep your library there?

What do you think a burner phone is? He had multiple phones that he didn’t even have active cellular plans on. Just because he was caught with phones with incriminating materials doesn’t mean they weren’t “burner” phones. It just means he hadn’t dumped them. None of this rules out him having used a prepaid phone that he then ditched in the river when he got freaked out.

The prosecutor stated they didn't have the evidence for the 5 (dropped) charges to get a jury to convict.

A simple explanation here is that he revealed the true owner of the device that had this specific content on it. He would not be able to be prosecuted for those counts in that case.

It's also expected for plea negotiations close to trial, the prosecutor doesn't seem ready if they are just now confirming what the evidence supports. The defense has a right to ask for yet another continuance, a 3rd or 4th trial delay, the prosecutor didn't object. In my opinion, it is pretty standard compared to other CSAM cases that take nearly 2 years to be adjudicated, with a guilty plea at the last minute. Many defendants prefer to serve as much time as possible in jail, before being sent to prison.

The point is that if KK was stringing along the prosecution, the prosecution would not keep kicking the can down the road. While he has a right to ask for a continuance, the prosecutor would also object if they didn’t have something to gain from it.

DOCS: Indy man had sex abuse material of infants on phone, sentenced to 12.5 years

INDIANAPOLIS — An Indy man already in jail on drug charges will spend another 12 years in prison after police found a slew of child *advertiser censored*, showing infants as young as 6 months old, on his electronic…

www.wane.com

I-Team 8: Is there any correlation between those charges being dropped and the search that was performed in the Wabash River?

ISP Superintendent Carter: No, absolutely not. I think he was charged with 30 counts, and they have dropped five, so it is 25. So, it is important the case has not been dropped against Kegan Kline

Indiana police superintendent: Delphi murders' facts will come out at trial

INDIANAPOLIS (WISH) — Indiana State Police Superintendent Doug Carter, in an interview Thursday with I-Team 8, said his agency is still looking for others involved the Delphi murders. Plus, tips on the case are still coming in, Carter said. Abigail “Abby” Williams and Liberty “Libby” German were...

www.wishtv.com

DC says a lot of things, and some of it is contradictory. He’s not under oath when talking to the press, so I’d take anything said right now with a grain of salt. He has also said in an interview with WISH that KK’s involvement and the Wabash search will all be explained when the affidavit is unsealed.

ISP leader talks Delphi murders

ISP leader talks Delphi murders - Indianapolis News | Indiana Weather | Indiana Traffic | WISH-TV |

www.wishtv.com

JMO

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

MOO, its easy to say that, but his arrest record is clean and LE has not linked him to any other murders.

Pat Brown explains that this type of murderer does not chance other crimes that could result in an arrest and DNA testing/fingerprinting.
Since we don't yet know how RA and/or DNA came to LE's attention, maybe he slipped up. Many serial killers have no arrest records.

RA may have done other crimes but the victims have not been found and/or there is no DNA/prints.

 

[Teche]

I have a link to stolen tools that RA reported but it wasn’t from a neighbors house.

Police Calls - Carroll County Comet

Police reports are gathered from available records on file at local police departments. This information is a matter of public record and does not imply guilt or innocence. Information for fire reports is also gathered from reports on file with local fire departments. Sheriff’s Dept. March 10...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Thank you.

 

[Tealgrove]

Thank you.

Wait…so he reported that tools were stolen from him???

 

[Charlot123]

emphasis mine.
Lol at the bolded, in a sarcastic way directed only at the alleged perp !
Hahaha !

On a serious note, I fervently hope if he did all of this to the girls and their families... that he doesn't evade justice through some loophole, or pretending to be be insane.
Nothing from what I've gleaned, regarding RA's actions previously -- have indicated any forms of mental blackouts or the type of insanity where a person has no idea what they've done after the act.
He had a job and a decent house and a family, fgs.
Why did he throw it all away ?
Of course there's still a lot we don't know.
And all of my comments directed at RA are allegedly, but I still think LE have arrested their man, and I shudder to think what evidence LE have that we don't know of yet.

Anyone who knew him previously will hopefully come forward with any bit of information.
Maybe he was a stalker or a peeping tom before ?
Or worse ?

It's hard to imagine going from smaller crimes to brutally killing two teens.
And I do believe the crimes against Abby and Libby were brutal, sorry to say.
If this arrest and probable trial reveal other past crimes and closure or answers for another family -- I'm all for it !!!!
M00.

He might have been “or worse” and possibly, wanted to do whatever he used to, but either the girls recognized him, or…well, one day it goes sideways for such guys.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

What do you think a burner phone is? He had multiple phones that he didn’t even have active cellular plans on. Just because he was caught with phones with incriminating materials doesn’t mean they weren’t “burner” phones. It just means he hadn’t dumped them. None of this rules out him having used a prepaid phone that he then ditched in the river when he got freaked out.

Not having an active plan on a phone, does not make it a burner phone. I have no idea if he ever had a burner phone, a phone having no record of the purchaser, it just doesn't appear that he used them, by the language in the interrogation and listing of the phones on the search warrant. It seems to me that the phones, in the past had service plans, which he said sometimes he could not pay for, on the phones. Indicating to me, in my opinion, that they were in his name.
A flat-out statement from Carter, (that the river search has nothing to do with the dropped charges), is unusual so I believe he is being truthful. I His other statements do not contradict this.

 

[photographer4]

If true then they had to have found something to tie him to the crime to get a search warrant
For his home.

Would it be enough to tell a judge that he inserted himself into the investigation by reporting himself as being there that day? I'd love to see whatever LE wrote down about him being there that day!

 

[Gemmie]

I have a link to stolen tools that RA reported but it wasn’t from a neighbors house.

Police Calls - Carroll County Comet

Police reports are gathered from available records on file at local police departments. This information is a matter of public record and does not imply guilt or innocence. Information for fire reports is also gathered from reports on file with local fire departments. Sheriff’s Dept. March 10...

www.carrollcountycomet.com

Monticello is ~15 miles from Delphi. And what would a pharmacy tech be doing with construction tools? Not that he couldn't have them but usually construction guys have construction tools. Not ordinary guys. MOO!

I could be wrong but I'm thinking it's a different Rick Allen. There are a bunch of them with that name that live in Monticello Indiana. MOO.

https://www.familytreenow.com/search/genealogy/results?first=Rick&last=Allen&citystatezip=Monticello,%20IN

 

[m00c0w]

<modsnip: off topic>

Not having an active plan on a phone, does not make it a burner phone. I have no idea if he ever had a burner phone, a phone having no record of the purchaser, it just doesn't appear that he used them, by the language in the interrogation and listing of the phones on the search warrant. It seems to me that the phones, in the past had service plans, which he said sometimes he could not pay for, on the phones. Indicating to me, in my opinion, that they were in his name.
A flat-out statement from Carter, (that the river search has nothing to do with the dropped charges), is unusual so I believe he is being truthful. I His other statements do not contradict this.

The river search may have technically had nothing to do with the dropped charges. That doesn’t mean it wasn’t related to KK cooperating.

Regarding burner phones, you’re the one that introduced the term and then whittled it down to a very narrow definition. I’m not saying he had a phone that he bought with bitcoin from a dude in a blacked out van behind the 7/11 while wearing a hoodie and a mask… I’m saying it seems plausible that he had a device that LE were unaware of that he ditched. You don’t understand how hard it is to get reliable responses from telecoms, even when you have the subscriber name. Certain prepaid plans (T-mobile and AT&T for two) don’t even return subscriber names in some instances.

The only additional thing I will say regarding the phones is that you believe it is highly unlikely he had a device law enforcement didn’t know about, while we absolutely know about a device he hid and then turned in later after deleting a bunch of stuff from that they apparently did not know about.

I’m not going to respond to much more of this since it’s veering more towards KK than Delphi at this point.

MOO

 

[m00c0w]

Would it be enough to tell a judge that he inserted himself into the investigation by reporting himself as being there that day? I'd love to see whatever LE wrote down about him being there that day!

No, you’d have to have probable cause to believe that specific evidence of a crime is present at the location you want to search. That’s why I think it’s so interesting they were able to get a warrant if that is the case.

MOO

 

[Jillyg]

A short presser was held (Sheriff Tobe Leazenby, Steve Mullin (Chief of Police) and Kim Riley (Information Officer) followed by a Q and A session. This part stood out to me:

Q. Should people in the community be afraid right now based upon what you’ve seen and know?
A. (Chief of Police) I think people are smart enough in our community to draw their own conclusions about what they should feel and shouldn’t feel. Our people are very smart. We have a very good community and they are very strong and they are able to draw their own conclusions about this whole situation I think quite successfully. Thank you for the question.

Q. Because the reason I ask is I hear the words “foul play suspected” and people might be wondering if there’s somebody running around this community preying on people that they need to be afraid of.
A. I understand what you’re saying.

Q. Should they be?
A. I think people are able to draw their own conclusions about this situation, and they’re smart enough to be able to figure out what the situation warrants them to think. So that’s all I have to say about that.

On what basis did Leazenby say "no"? Steve Mullin would have been informed that it was a double homicide and TL would also have been told. Both would have been aware that this is an area mainly known to locals and commonly frequented by young people. The crime scene must have been shocking as it was reported that when LE returned from the crime scene, some were in tears.

This is JMO, but surely a more appropriate response by either TL or SM would have been something like, "Until we know more, keep an eye on your children and endeavour to know where they are". A warning should have been given.

Knowing that RMA has been out and about in the community since then is terrifying, at least to me. Surely at that very early stage it shouldn't have been a case of "carry on regardless".

This is what has bothered me more than anything, from the day I saw that presser. <modsnip: claiming expertise/knowledge in a subject without proper verification>

I agree with your assessment!

 

[Gardenista]

I'm not sure CTV from last night was posted. Vinnie interviews Barbara Allen