Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #157

[wary]

Considering LE was at their home with a search warrant nearly 2 weeks before he was arrested, they couldn't have been in that much shock. Her yes, but him? He knew exactly what was coming down the pike. He had to have, unless he has some sort of cognitive disability, and I don't think we've seen that mentioned anywhere.

jmo

Unless I totally misunderstand the nature of his job, I wouldn’t think that ‘cognitive disability’ was an issue. I’m not even impressed with the idea of ‘unsophisticated.’ Not an experienced criminal, certainly.

MOO

 

[mrjitty]

Unless I totally misunderstand the nature of his job, I wouldn’t think that ‘cognitive disability’ was an issue. I’m not even impressed with the idea of ‘unsophisticated.’ Not an experienced criminal, certainly.

MOO

Hi @wary

I use that term to mean legally 'unsophisticated' and it is often related to finances

i.e if you are well off, you are likely to have the highest quality representation from the first hours.

If you are not, then your defence is unlikely to be sophisticated in the early hours/days/weeks

An example of this, is a sophisticated defendant may well create media narratives from the get go

 

[Mandala]

I’ve wondered if BG said something else before “down the hill”. Maybe he said the bridge is closing or that the girls shouldn’t walk back over (making an excuse like he’d found a loose wood panel and it was too dangerous etc). He might have said that the only way back was down the hill and he’d show them how to get back that way. His voice doesn’t sound threatening or coercive at that point, IMO. Then once he got them down there, maybe asked to take explicit photos and when the girls said no, he lost control. MOO IMO

 

[CSIDreamer]

It wouldn't surprise me if the PCA is released, considering the prosecution provided a redacted one to the judge. JMO

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

New poll:

Are any of the K’s somehow tied/connect to RMA, by the way of this case?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/located-persons-discussion.437/post-thread

 

[minazoe]

for me, this case has always been a sex crime and murder of two young girls for personal gratification and ownership of
any photos/video of the event for profit, imo the killer went to the location equipped to kill, and if there was anger shown this is just part of the killer's pathology... to summon anger and kill...to express his hatred and sadism. mOO

 

[wary]

Agree.
MOO the first of the two reasons the DA gave the judge for sealing, is protecting witnesses who are still minors or were minors at the time of the crime, MOO so it is the main reason for sealing.

Embarrassment for the parents and guardians in a small town.

Unpleasant for them, but it will all come out at trial as RA is not pleading “guilty.”
MOO there is no point in not going forward transparently according to normal procedure.
Possibly friends of the judges children are mentioned as witnesses and this is another contributing factor to recusing himself.

Considering the witnesses who are still minors, I wonder if their entanglement might be such that the only way to not reveal their identity would be to redact the entire page/pages that deal with their involvement.

I think there’s the possibility of situations where blacking out the name just won’t do it. We’ve seen here how eagerly people sleuth redactions—counting the possible letters in a word or name.

 

[EllaMinnowP]

New poll:

Are any of the K’s somehow tied/connect to RMA, by the way of this case?

https://www.websleuths.com/forums/forums/located-persons-discussion.437/post-thread

The link doesn’t take me to a poll.

 

[photographer4]

She had an IPhone 4 that wasn’t a feature for that phone.

Ahhh. I guess not a Live Photo then. Thanks

 

[Mysteeri]

Hi, I just started to look into this case and haven't been on websleuths for years. There are so many threads and adds making it difficult to find relevant information, so I would really appreciate if someone could tell me what the sketches of the suspect were based upon?

 

[photographer4]

Yes. If you have tarnished your reputation over time, and two teenage girls are found murdered on or near your property, there is going to be some significant scrutiny.

The question is why did he ask for his cousin to alibi him BEFORE the kids were found dead for the specific time frame for when they were abducted and killed?

I get he wasn’t suooosed to be out driving at all. But he didn’t ask for an alibi for earlier in the day when he went to the transfer station. Why was he *only* concerned that he needed an alibi for the 2-5:30pm slot when the kids were taken and killed? His phone was in proximity to the bodies. Why? Did he find them first and fail to report? Did he see something? Read the warrant and you’ll see he wasn’t the nice old man. He was a violent abusive man with a history of hair pulling / dragging by hair and had threatened a woman that he could kill her and no one would know. I’m not saying he did this crime but he certainly wasn’t squeaky clean!

 

[TL4S]

Really interesting because the RL warrant I referenced at the link above actually does not say the audio was captured at the south end at all. What it says is the “…development of this suspect was made by a 43 second video taken on LG’s phone where the suspect follows the victims as they walk along Monon High Bridge Trail. Near the end of the video the suspect speaks to the victims. It sounds as though he is directing them to leave the trail they were on and enter the woods below.”

I suspect that LG made a Live Photo of AW on the bridge and that’s why the clip of the man walking is so short. There isn’t more of it to show us. I imagine maybe then she put the phone in pocket or wherever and the audio may be a different clip / even an actual video or audio recording vs just a Live Photo that may have been taken a bit later on.

Totally only a theory. Nothing is fact aside the quote from the RL warrant above. mOOOo

@photographer4, early on, I went through this same thought about the location of "DTH." But between TL and DC both identifying the south side of the bridge hill, the links about criminal activity below, the HLN "Down the Hill" podcast that talks about the 43 second video, and the RL PCA 43 second video reference, I feel confident in that BG said that when he approached the girls at the end of the bridge. I believe the bridge video and the words are all one uninterrupted recording. In one interview (do not remember which), AW talks about listening to the video and how the girls were discussing the man on the bridge, them having nowhere to go, and their reaction when he approached and talked to them. Jmo.

Indiana authorities hope slain girl's audio recording will lead to her killer
"This young lady is a hero, there’s no doubt,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum. “To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that’s about to occur.”
Delphi: Officials say Internet rumors can hurt investigation
She also captured a man’s voice saying, “down the hill” during what police call “criminal activity.”

 

[girlhasnoname]

When this arrest was made it felt like such a relief that finally there may be some form of justice. We know as much as we did before the arrest apart from the info that RA was spoken to on the day of the murders and said he was on the bridge. I find it strange there is nothing being said apart from the statements that nothing can be said. No wonder there is so much speculation.

It is quiet, but with the PCA sealed, there isn't much information out there to discuss. LE has been vigilant in keeping the information buttoned up.

I guess we'll have to wait until the Judge decides to release the PC warrant or at least a redacted part, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she decided not to. This case has such a high profile and immense media attention, I'm sure they are wanting to do everything by the book. At least I hope so.

MOO

 

[AC4RD]

It is quiet, but with the PCA sealed, there isn't much information out there to discuss. LE has been vigilant in keeping the information buttoned up.

I guess we'll have to wait until the Judge decides to release the PC warrant or at least a redacted part, but I honestly wouldn't be surprised if she decided not to. This case has such a high profile and immense media attention, I'm sure they are wanting to do everything by the book. At least I hope so.

MOO

I agree that the prosecution and judge (two separate entities with different goals) almost certainly want things to be done by the book, as immune from sniping criticism as can be. My own opinion is that this desire increases, not decreases, the chance that Judge Gull releases the doc, redacted very possibly, in the idea that increasing transparency will help people see an honest and fair legal process. MOO, of course.

The "transparency" issue may have been a part of why the first judge recused himself--though this is sheer speculation: he may have been concerned that a lack of big-trial experience and a lack of court resources could lead people to question the fairness of the process. Just a WAG, though. ("wild something guess")

As long as I'm here, I'll add, regarding the speculation about the nature, timing, and location of Libby's video, that Gray Hughes suggested that Libby was filming Abby and possibly got BG by accident--it's the footage that may show BG with the view slightly occluded by what he identified as Abby's jacket sleeve. And the BG footage might have been unintended, while filming Abby, or Libby might have been pretending to film Abby so BG didn't realize that he was being filmed. FWIW.

As I think we all feel, I'm hoping that LE nailed down their case before the arrest, and that the trial is scrupulously fair. The girls deserve that. And I also think RA's stupid little chin beard makes him look skeezy, but that's an entirely personal opinion.

 

[photographer4]

@photographer4, early on, I went through this same thought about the location of "DTH." But between TL and DC both identifying the south side of the bridge hill, the links about criminal activity below, the HLN "Down the Hill" podcast that talks about the 43 second video, and the RL PCA 43 second video reference, I feel confident in that BG said that when he approached the girls at the end of the bridge. I believe the bridge video and the words are all one uninterrupted recording. In one interview (do not remember which), AW talks about listening to the video and how the girls were discussing the man on the bridge, them having nowhere to go, and their reaction when he approached and talked to them. Jmo.

Indiana authorities hope slain girl's audio recording will lead to her killer
"This young lady is a hero, there’s no doubt,” said Indiana State Police Sgt. Tony Slocum. “To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that’s about to occur.”
Delphi: Officials say Internet rumors can hurt investigation
She also captured a man’s voice saying, “down the hill” during what police call “criminal activity.”

Oh man! Thanks for sharing - I haven't heard *any* of the podcasts at all. Podcasts are just not my scene. Its so hard to know what happened out there that day with so little actual information having been released in all this time!

 

[Prime8]

As long as I'm here, I'll add, regarding the speculation about the nature, timing, and location of Libby's video, that Gray Hughes suggested that Libby was filming Abby and possibly got BG by accident--it's the footage that may show BG with the view slightly occluded by what he identified as Abby's jacket sleeve. And the BG footage might have been unintended, while filming Abby, or Libby might have been pretending to film Abby so BG didn't realize that he was being filmed. FWIW.

*cut out other paragraphs for focus

I've always thought this theory rings true. It would explain why we only see a second or so of BG. LE have stated in interviews that the girls were casually chatting in the beginning of the video. I honestly don't think they started filming because of BG.

 

[M. Kay]

I can not understand the obsession with wanting to tarnish a dead man’s name. It’s mind boggling when 1 man has been arrested and charged and yet an innocent man still can’t escape the comments.


Imo

This comment is one I've wanted to enter numerous times, so thanks "asyousay". A long-dead man was a too-convenient, tarnished target. By now, five-plus years into investigations, his guilt would have been determined, yes?
One FBI agent quite early on had to speculate heavily in writing to obtain legal access for necessary search. From it we all found out that there was nothing to see within RL's entire property. We did learn (through that warrant) what they are "looking for" elsewhere. Let's concentrate on that.

 

[photographer4]

This comment is one I've wanted to enter numerous times, so thanks "asyousay". A long-dead man was a too-convenient, tarnished target. By now, five-plus years into investigations, his guilt would have been determined, yes?
One FBI agent quite early on had to speculate heavily in writing to obtain legal access for necessary search. From it we all found out that there was nothing to see within RL's entire property. We did learn (through that warrant) what they are "looking for" elsewhere. Let's concentrate on that.

During an interview after the PCA hearing last week, Doug Carter stated to an interviewer who asked about RL that no one had been cleared to date. That makes me wonder if they still think the had something to do with this crime in some capacity? Maybe he found the bodies before anyone else and didn't report it for some reason? He asked his cousin to provide the alibi at 9:20am on the 14th - that is *before* the girls were found dead. Is it possible he was looking for them and found them dead on his property and just didn't report knowing that he had a criminal record and had breeched his probation by driving to that afternoon to a store 30mins away? I could see why that would scare a guy - two dead kids on his property and he's already got a criminal record....

 

[m00c0w]

During an interview after the PCA hearing last week, Doug Carter stated to an interviewer who asked about RL that no one had been cleared to date. That makes me wonder if they still think the had something to do with this crime in some capacity? Maybe he found the bodies before anyone else and didn't report it for some reason? He asked his cousin to provide the alibi at 9:20am on the 14th - that is *before* the girls were found dead. Is it possible he was looking for them and found them dead on his property and just didn't report knowing that he had a criminal record and had breeched his probation by driving to that afternoon to a store 30mins away? I could see why that would scare a guy - two dead kids on his property and he's already got a criminal record....

Anything is possible. However, the alibi he gave police during his interview with them contained different times than what he asked of his cousin. The times he personally gave would not have cleared him.

JMO

 

[MistyWaters]

The question is why did he ask for his cousin to alibi him BEFORE the kids were found dead for the specific time frame for when they were abducted and killed?

I get he wasn’t suooosed to be out driving at all. But he didn’t ask for an alibi for earlier in the day when he went to the transfer station. Why was he *only* concerned that he needed an alibi for the 2-5:30pm slot when the kids were taken and killed? His phone was in proximity to the bodies. Why? Did he find them first and fail to report? Did he see something? Read the warrant and you’ll see he wasn’t the nice old man. He was a violent abusive man with a history of hair pulling / dragging by hair and had threatened a woman that he could kill her and no one would know. I’m not saying he did this crime but he certainly wasn’t squeaky clean!

As has been mentioned earlier possibly LE only asked RL where he was between the specific time of 2-5:30pm and that’s why it‘s stated in the SW? They’d have no reason to be concerned where he was earlier or later when questioned in relation to the murders.

His cellphone was found in proximity of the bodies probably because his residence was nearby. With so few cell towers in a rural area it would be impossible to triangulate a cellphone to an exact and precise location.

Although this search warrant was only recently released, IMO it’s actually old news. The search took place over 5 years ago and LE had more than enough time to further investigate him as a key suspect if they found reason to. It’s not as if we just happened to stumble upon a hot lead that LE had completely overlooked.

JMO