Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #161

[mrjitty]

MOO it doesn’t matter whether he personally murdered them, or some other perpetrator involved did, once he committed the felony of kidnap then he is culpable for their subsequent murders.

Agreed - he obviously is guilty of felony murder beyond any reasonable doubt.

This trial is about identity.

 

[legalmomma]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1617536184166797312

 

[legalmomma]

Parties agree to select jurors from Allen or St. Joseph counties for Delphi murders trial

Just over a week removed from the last hearing for Richard Allen, parties have agreed to possible locations of jurors for the trial.

www.wrtv.com

 

[CNYDarkStar]

RSBM

Because they have the abduction on video - so the only real issue at trial will be the identity of BG

IMO it will be accepted by the defence, and inferred by the jury, that Bridge Guy did the abduction and was directly involved in the murders because he took the victims towards the crime scene. None of that will be contested IMO because it is on video. The only question is who is Bridge Guy.

02c

They have it on video? Is there another video I don't know about.?

 

[CNYDarkStar]

Not a chance. And yet, oddly, both BG and Abby are pictured doing so.

In my estimation he was purposely walking this way to appear relaxed, casual, uninterested and harmless.

 

[Megnut]

Consider:

We know the time is tight.

Lady sees RA... turns around, meets A and L as they approach the bridge.

So where was RA when the girls entered and crossed the bridge?

I think RA was very aware of the girls' exact location as they approached the bridge.

I think RA passed the girls just ahead of the bridge as he walked IMO with purpose, same as described by others, purpose being -- to follow the lady, to make sure that she was committed to exiting the park. Once thus confirmed to his satisfaction, IMO he looped back, gaining on them, purposefully isolating them in a remote part of the park, cleared of hikers.

He knew no one was coming up behind them, he could force them down the hill without witness... which is then exactly what he did.

JMO

 

[Justice101]

I agree with you in most cases, but I do not think the State is going to entertain a plea deal in this high profile, vicious crime.

If the families of Abby and Libby push for a possible plea, maybe, but again, I don't see that happening here unless they feel it would be less traumatizing than sitting through potential weeks, months of a grueling trial.

MOO

I agree and think if a plea is the best way for the state to get a conviction if their evidence is not a slam dunk, then I think they would consult with the families FIRST and give them the pros vs cons of going to trial.

 

[Justice101]

Consider:

We know the time is tight.

Lady sees RA... turns around, meets A and L as they approach the bridge.

So where was RA when the girls entered and crossed the bridge?

I think RA was very aware of the girls' exact location as they approached the bridge.

I think RA passed the girls just ahead of the bridge as he walked IMO with purpose, same as described by others, purpose being -- to follow the lady, to make sure that she was committed to exiting the park. Once thus confirmed to his satisfaction, IMO he looped back, gaining on them, purposefully isolating them in a remote part of the park, cleared of hikers.

He knew no one was coming up behind them, he could force them down the hill without witness... which is then exactly what he did.

JMO

Yes 100% dead on!

 

[Marzipan]

MOO..

you think they have the wrong guy, even with the bullet evidence? The .40 cal unspent round found near Liberty, whose ejection markings match those produced by RA’s (fairly uncommon brand and caliber) pistol? When the guy placed himself at the bridge trail on that date, and he owns a jacket like the one BG was wearing, and—importantly—he was seen entering the MHBT but none of those walking later on saw him leave?

We aren’t going to get a video of him committing the actual murders, and we may not get DNA, but beyond reasonable doubt? I think this circumstantial evidence is incredibly strong… MHOO/MY speculation only.

I’m following and in agreement with you @getthefax — I think RA is BG and the killer — but @somequestions has been around here a long time and followed the case, I believe, longer than my three years. There have been times when I can’t imagine why someone isn’t tracking with the majority or what seems obvious but later on it’s a who’s-laughing-now thing. There are just so many confusing things about this and the prosecutor’s case hasn’t even unfolded for us much yet.

 

[Prime8]

I believe RA spoke to the CO before the video was released to the public.

I don't believe we've had confirmation of when the statement was taken. If so we have, do you have a link?

 

[Slawsb]

They have it on video? Is there another video I don't know about.?

There's more to the video that hasn't been released yet

 

[MistyWaters]

There's more to the video that hasn't been released yet

Yes this snippet is from way back, Feb 22, 2017. There’s something in the video which Libby record that leaves no doubt as to the perps “criminal behaviour about to occur”, in addition to GDTH which was released. JMO

I agree with mrjitty, the trial will be about proving identity.


BBM

Audio clip released in Delphi double homicide

Police called Liberty German a hero for turning on her phone's video camera in time to depict and record her assailant.

www.jconline.com

“Indiana State Police Capt. David Bursten said investigators possess more footage from German's phone, but it will not be released due to the ongoing investigation of her death alongside 13-year-old Abby Williams.

ISP Sgt. Tony Slocum called German a hero for turning on her phone's video camera in time to record her assailant.

"This young lady is a hero, there’s no doubt," he said. "To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that's about to occur."….”

 

[somequestions]

MOO..

you think they have the wrong guy, even with the bullet evidence? The .40 cal unspent round found near Liberty, whose ejection markings match those produced by RA’s (fairly uncommon brand and caliber) pistol? When the guy placed himself at the bridge trail on that date, and he owns a jacket like the one BG was wearing, and—importantly—he was seen entering the MHBT but none of those walking later on saw him leave?

We aren’t going to get a video of him committing the actual murders, and we may not get DNA, but beyond reasonable doubt? I think this circumstantial evidence is incredibly strong… MHOO/MY speculation only.

I have some problems with this case. There are some unanswered questions. Is Richard Allen the murderer? Only he knows that. People make good points about the timing of his placement in the area, and the unspent round near one of the bodies. I cannot explain that.

For myself, the main question I would want answered is this case is:

How do we know the killer was not already on the other side of the bridge? The only thing that makes sense is that Liberty German and Abigail Williams must have seen Richard Allen around them earlier, following and lurking behind them, but not immediately behind them, due to the 2:07 picture of Abigail Williams on the bridge.

 

[fmcphie]

I agree and think if a plea is the best way for the state to get a conviction if their evidence is not a slam dunk, then I think they would consult with the families FIRST and give them the pros vs cons of going to trial.

They often do let the families know. IMO I think they always should but not all states require it as part of the victim's impact rights. On the cases I worked the attorneys would mostly discuss this.

 

[TL4S]

Yes this snippet is from way back, Feb 22, 2017. There’s something in the video which Libby record that leaves no doubt as to the perps “criminal behaviour about to occur”, in addition to GDTH which was released. JMO

I agree with mrjitty, the trial will be about proving identity.


BBM

Audio clip released in Delphi double homicide

Police called Liberty German a hero for turning on her phone's video camera in time to depict and record her assailant.

www.jconline.com

“Indiana State Police Capt. David Bursten said investigators possess more footage from German's phone, but it will not be released due to the ongoing investigation of her death alongside 13-year-old Abby Williams.

ISP Sgt. Tony Slocum called German a hero for turning on her phone's video camera in time to record her assailant.

"This young lady is a hero, there’s no doubt," he said. "To have enough presence of mind to activate that video system on her cellphone, to record what we believe is criminal behavior that's about to occur."….”

I also agree that the trial will be about proving identity. In regards to the video, we also know this from the affidavit:

The video recovered from Victim 2's phone shows Victim 1 walking southeast on the Monon High Bridge while male subject wearing dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victims mentions, "gun". Near the end of the video male is seen and heard telling the girls, "Guys, Down the hill." The girls then begin to proceed down the hill and the video ends.

Court documents released in Delphi murder case: Read the probable cause affidavit here

ETA: I do not think the bolded sentence above necessarily means they have a clearly visible shot of the male's face, or gun, or anything like that. Jmo.

 

[mrjitty]

I get that this maybe is not intuitive if you didn't ruin your brain with years of legal study and analysis but as a technical analysis, based on what we know, it is pretty much proven beyond reasonable doubt that 'Bridge Guy' did felony murder

1. We see him on video abduct the victims who see a gun

2. He tells the victims to go in the direction of the crime scene

3. The victims were found murdered at the crime scene.

A jury will almost certainly accept all of the above, and make the natural and obvious inference that "Bridge Guy" abducted the girls and was directly involved in their murders, even if there is the possibility others were involved.

IMO the defence will also accept the above.

Therefore the only issue at trial is proving RA = Bridge Guy

This is the advantage of charging felony murder. It is not lesser - it just makes the job easier - that is the point of codifying laws in this way

My 02c

 

[steeltowngirl]

I get that this maybe is not intuitive if you didn't ruin your brain with years of legal study and analysis but as a technical analysis, based on what we know, it is pretty much proven beyond reasonable doubt that 'Bridge Guy' did felony murder

1. We see him on video abduct the victims who see a gun

2. He tells the victims to go in the direction of the crime scene

3. The victims were found murdered at the crime scene.

A jury will almost certainly accept all of the above, and make the natural and obvious inference that "Bridge Guy" abducted the girls and was directly involved in their murders, even if there is the possibility others were involved.

IMO the defence will also accept the above.

Therefore the only issue at trial is proving RA = Bridge Guy

This is the advantage of charging felony murder. It is not lesser - it just makes the job easier - that is the point of codifying laws in this way

My 02c

What are your thoughts on proving RA=BG?

In addition to the unspent shell, he placed himself at the bridge during the timeframe, and has a very similar appearance to the image.

They also have the DTH audio, which is longer than we have heard publicly.

I wonder if forensic voice analysis will be introduced at trial?

 

[Justice101]

I get that this maybe is not intuitive if you didn't ruin your brain with years of legal study and analysis but as a technical analysis, based on what we know, it is pretty much proven beyond reasonable doubt that 'Bridge Guy' did felony murder

1. We see him on video abduct the victims who see a gun

2. He tells the victims to go in the direction of the crime scene

3. The victims were found murdered at the crime scene.

A jury will almost certainly accept all of the above, and make the natural and obvious inference that "Bridge Guy" abducted the girls and was directly involved in their murders, even if there is the possibility others were involved.

IMO the defence will also accept the above.

Therefore the only issue at trial is proving RA = Bridge Guy

This is the advantage of charging felony murder. It is not lesser - it just makes the job easier - that is the point of codifying laws in this way

My 02c

AND maybe just as important, HE PLACED HIMSELF THERE at the time. That is going to be almost impossible for the defense to overcome.

 

[TL4S]

What are your thoughts on proving RA=BG?

In addition to the unspent shell, he placed himself at the bridge during the timeframe, and has a very similar appearance to the image.

They also have the DTH audio, which is longer than we have heard publicly.

I wonder if forensic voice analysis will be introduced at trial?

Per the RL affidavit, "GDTH" was spoken near the end of the 43 second video. In the RA affidavit, it states the words were spoken, the girls began down the hill, and then the video ends. Imo, there is not any more audio of BG's voice. I think LE has said that, too, although I can't remember the source.

 

[FrostedGlass]

Hoosier Public Defender is Shay Hughes, Brian Chadwell's attorney. I give a fair amount of weight to what he says because I'm guessing he's seen the court records that are available to attorneys at this time.

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29mm Strength of the Case:
Both sides have their work cut out for them. I meant this going to be an extremely difficult case for both sides. For the prosecutor, it's going to be about narrowing that timeline and for RA, you know... look, here's my concern on any criminal case I have is that a jury... we can talk about the presumption of innocence and all that but you know a jury is invested in law enforcement, right? I mean they want to see their tax-supported agencies doing well; they want to see law enforcement do well. They want to see the prosecutor do well. That makes it difficult from the defense side. (goes into the unspent round, a lot of work to be done on thet, case law on that is not defense friendly)

At the end of the day, I mean both sides have their work cut out for them, anyone that tells you that they know, you know they feel strongly one way or the other, I really doubt that they've tried a case, I mean it is very difficult.