Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[girlhasnoname]

Here we are 5 years later with a horrific crime as yet unsolved despite there being video and audio evidence of the guy on the bridge with a gun directing the girls to their fate.

Now just imagine if they hadn't got that video evidence. How much longer would LE need, what other leads would they have to go on. I mean, this is a horrific crime in broad daylight and here we are 5 years later still puzzling about who, if and why etc.

I'm not puzzled about who, RA is Bridge guy no doubt about it. Libby helped solve their own crime.

MOO

 

[4441]

I'm not puzzled about who, RA is Bridge guy no doubt about it. Libby helped solve their own crime.

MOO

I agree and it’s just so frustrating that after all she did he was still walking free.
I still think the police needed to release more video. They’ve allowed this man to escape justice despite having evidence. Poor lovely girls did so much to try to help identify him. I realise I’m posting too much when I don’t have anything new to add but I’m just so upset by this case.

Why is it we now have a slightly longer piece of audio? Why? What did the police hope to gain by not appealing for this man using the evidence they were holding? The evidence these precious girls had provided them with? At such risk to themselves and in their absolute terror. After years passing I think it’s unforgivable that the police didn’t do more.

 

[4441]

I'm not following what you're saying since you didn't quote someone's post for me to follow your conversation.

Whose daughter is the same age as whom? Did you mean RA's daughter was the same age as Abbie and Libby? If so, there was almost 10 yrs difference between them. If you didn't mean RA's daughter, who did you mean? Sorry if I'm dense and unable to follow what you're talking about but I can't figure out who else's daughter you could be talking about.

Sorry- I think I was rambling. I thought that RAs daughter was the same age as the girls. I saw a photo of her taken on the same bridge and I thought that it was taken a year after the crime. I must have got this wrong. My posts may not make a lot of sense to you all because I followed this story really closely for a few years. Then just last week Friday I saw that there had been an update and an arrest so I came here to read up on everything. I’m still shocked and angry to read this detail. Have I understood this correctly-

RA told the police he was on the bridge at that time.

Four women saw a man (we know it was him because he tells police it was him seen by group of girls).

He was the only man seen on the bridge.

This information was provided years ago.

After the arrest and apprehension of RA the police reveal a slightly longer piece of audio.

 

[Cryptic]

There is no gun registry in IN

Very true, but also somewhat incorrect in the practical sense.

As you stated, there is no gun registry in Indiana. And now, the "but"....

There are saved records of federally required back ground checks run on individuals purchasing any weapon from any seller with an FFL.

In all probability, a significant majority of fire arms purchases, but by no means all legal fire arms purchases, are done through FFL holders.

I believe that some States have no made it mandatory to purchase weapons only from an FFL holder. As a result, all legal weapons purchases in that State would be recorded in the "not a registry registry".

I doubt that Indiana has this requirement. But.... at the end of the day, there essentially is a "not a registry registry" of a significant majority of the fire arms purchases made in Indiana.

A vaguely similar analogy would be:

- Accurate statement: There is no national ID requirement in the United States.
-And the "but"... Your driver license or state ID card and associated interconnect data bases constitutes pretty much the same thing in the practical sense.

 

[Bergmann]

I'm not puzzled about who, RA is Bridge guy no doubt about it. Libby helped solve their own crime.

MOO

So no presumption of innocence then? Until actually proven guilty? Sending someone like RA to prison for life or the DP based on what we know from the PCA demonstrates one of the flaws in jury trial where the accused is guilty before he gets to court.

Not saying he's innocent, but at this stage pre-trial I prefer to maintain presumption of innocence and let the evidence at trial do the convicting. Sorry if that sounds naïve.

 

[girlhasnoname]

So no presumption of innocence then? Until actually proven guilty? Sending someone like RA to prison for life or the DP based on what we know from the PCA demonstrates one of the flaws in jury trial where the accused is guilty before he gets to court.

Not saying he's innocent, but at this stage pre-trial I prefer to maintain presumption of innocence and let the evidence at trial do the convicting. Sorry if that sounds naïve.

Yeah, this is a crime based website, not a court of law. We can speculate here within reason and TOS. Your entitled to your opinion as is everyone here.

 

[Boxer]

So no presumption of innocence then? Until actually proven guilty? Sending someone like RA to prison for life or the DP based on what we know from the PCA demonstrates one of the flaws in jury trial where the accused is guilty before he gets to court.

Not saying he's innocent, but at this stage pre-trial I prefer to maintain presumption of innocence and let the evidence at trial do the convicting. Sorry if that sounds naïve.

Timing -
He is on bridge platform 1.
Witness turns around seeing him walk west toward Mears lot.
Girls dropped off 1:49.
Witness passes girls at 1:55.

Walk from Mears lot to bridge 5-6 minutes.
Bridge becomes visible from path 3 minutes from Mears lot.

Even waking slowly they are at the bend in the trail by 1:55, which open up to total visibility up the trail and down the bridge.

MOO he was seen at the bridge platform at 1:53- Nit reasonable he did not see the girls , nor that some other actor stepped in.

 

[4441]

So no presumption of innocence then? Until actually proven guilty? Sending someone like RA to prison for life or the DP based on what we know from the PCA demonstrates one of the flaws in jury trial where the accused is guilty before he gets to court.

Not saying he's innocent, but at this stage pre-trial I prefer to maintain presumption of innocence and let the evidence at trial do the convicting. Sorry if that sounds naïve.

He had his presumption of innocence for 5 years. Someone woke up

 

[4441]

Timing -
He is on bridge platform 1.
Witness turns around seeing him walk west toward Mears lot.
Girls dropped off 1:49.
Witness passes girls at 1:55.

Walk from Mears lot to bridge 5-6 minutes.
Bridge becomes visible from path 3 minutes from Mears lot.

Even waking slowly they are at the bend in the trail by 1:55, which open up to total visibility up the trail and down the bridge.

MOO he was seen at the bridge platform at 1:53- Nit reasonable he did not see the girls , nor that some other actor stepped in.

And furthermore, the girls filmed him

 

[steeltowngirl]

Very true, but also somewhat incorrect in the practical sense.

As you stated, there is no gun registry in Indiana. And now, the "but"....

There are saved records of federally required back ground checks run on individuals purchasing any weapon from any seller with an FFL.

In all probability, a significant majority of fire arms purchases, but by no means all legal fire arms purchases, are done through FFL holders.

I believe that some States have no made it mandatory to purchase weapons only from an FFL holder. As a result, all legal weapons purchases in that State would be recorded in the "not a registry registry".

I doubt that Indiana has this requirement. But.... at the end of the day, there essentially is a "not a registry registry" of a significant majority of the fire arms purchases made in Indiana.

A vaguely similar analogy would be:

- Accurate statement: There is no national ID requirement in the United States.
-And the "but"... Your driver license or state ID card and associated interconnect data bases constitutes pretty much the same thing in the practical sense.

Thanks for posting this response @Cryptic.

I had asked about gun registry upthread, as I was thinking about the unspent bullet. Since they had the bullet back in 2017, I wondered if that meant they also already knew the make of the gun, and if any attempt was made to locate people in the area who owned that model of gun.

 

[FromGermany1]

Timing -
He is on bridge platform 1.
Witness turns around seeing him walk west toward Mears lot.
Girls dropped off 1:49.
Witness passes girls at 1:55.

Walk from Mears lot to bridge 5-6 minutes.
Bridge becomes visible from path 3 minutes from Mears lot.

Even waking slowly they are at the bend in the trail by 1:55, which open up to total visibility up the trail and down the bridge.

MOO he was seen at the bridge platform at 1:53- Nit reasonable he did not see the girls , nor that some other actor stepped in.

bbm

Why did LE start their search for the girls circa 500m west of the bridge (if I remember well) and then worked their way up to RL property? At that time they hadn't yet the video, but who decided to begin at the certain point and WHY?

 

[Yemelyan]

Sorry- I think I was rambling. I thought that RAs daughter was the same age as the girls. I saw a photo of her taken on the same bridge and I thought that it was taken a year after the crime. I must have got this wrong. My posts may not make a lot of sense to you all because I followed this story really closely for a few years. Then just last week Friday I saw that there had been an update and an arrest so I came here to read up on everything. I’m still shocked and angry to read this detail. Have I understood this correctly-

RA told the police he was on the bridge at that time.

Four women saw a man (we know it was him because he tells police it was him seen by group of girls).

He was the only man seen on the bridge.

This information was provided years ago.

After the arrest and apprehension of RA the police reveal a slightly longer piece of audio.

The bridge photo you saw was an older photo when it was posted, not a current one, if that makes sense. That accounts for the confusion on how old the subject of the photo was (she was significantly older than the victims).

From reading RA's probable cause document, I believe he admitted to the conservation officer who submitted the "tip narrative" in 2017 that he was on the trails that day and that he walked from the Freedom Bridge to the High Bridge. However, the way it reads (to me) suggests that he didn't admit to being out on the High Bridge itself (the infamous "watching fish" statement) until his subsequent interview with investigators in October of 2022. Not that this matters a ton (to my way of thinking - perhaps investigators felt differently) because he still placed himself in the area.

To answer your last question, the release of the short video of him walking and the addition of the word "guys" to the audio actually occurred in 2019, not after his arrest. LE have given hints that there is more of the girls talking on the video (for example in the probable cause document where they reference one of the victims saying "gun") but none of this audio has been released and supposedly there is no other usable audio of the man other than the "Guys... Down the hill" that we have already heard.

 

[Boxer]

bbm

Why did LE start their search for the girls circa 500m west of the bridge (if I remember well) and then worked their way up to RL property? At that time they hadn't yet the video, but who decided to begin at the certain point and WHY?

MOO closer to the parking lot.

 

[MistyWaters]

bbm

Why did LE start their search for the girls circa 500m west of the bridge (if I remember well) and then worked their way up to RL property? At that time they hadn't yet the video, but who decided to begin at the certain point and WHY?

I don’t ever recall reading the search for the girls was only conducted in such a limited area so I’m not sure what you’re remembering. Only the account of finding the bodies was ever talked about by Libby’s grandma and sister but that pertained to just the one team of searchers who made the discovery.

 

[Prime8]

bbm

Why did LE start their search for the girls circa 500m west of the bridge (if I remember well) and then worked their way up to RL property? At that time they hadn't yet the video, but who decided to begin at the certain point and WHY?

I'm not sure about the accuracy of where they started the search but that location sounds like it would be in the area of where they were dropped off. Logically, it sounds like they were following the known movements of the girls that day. Friends and family would have had their snapchat and any other photos that may have been uploaded on social media or sent via text from that day so they would search those areas. .

 

[FromGermany1]

I don’t ever recall reading the search for the girls was only conducted in such a limited area so I’m not sure what you’re remembering. Only the account of finding the bodies was ever talked about by Libby’s grandma and sister but that pertained to just the one team of searchers who made the discovery.

I am very restricted re printed news, can't find an article now. Doesn't anybody here remember, that LE searched on the opposite side of the MHB (West) first, along the banks? Then searched in direction of RL-land along the banks.
My memory isn't always very good (sometimes even bad meanwhile), but I still know, how I was surprised in 2017 by the point at Deer Creek, where they started. In any case, I believe so.

 

[somequestions]

I think I understand the probable cause affidavit in this case a little better now.

If Richard Allen was on the Monon High Bridge before Abigail Williams and Liberty German, but then walked back towards Freedom Bridge to leave, he would have passed them. I suppose that would make sense as to why Liberty German pulled out her phone to record him once he turned around to come back for them.

But if that is the case, why did he wait until 2:13 pm to abduct them? The exact timing of the last photo of Abigail Williams can only be before 2:07pm because that is when the snapchat photo was posted. There is no one in the background of that picture.

 

[Yemelyan]

I think I understand the probable cause affidavit in this case a little better now.

If Richard Allen was on the Monon High Bridge before Abigail Williams and Liberty German, but then walked back towards Freedom Bridge to leave, he would have passed them. I suppose that would make sense as to why Liberty German pulled out her phone to record him once he turned around to come back for them.

But if that is the case, why did he wait until 2:13 pm to abduct them? The exact timing of the last photo of Abigail Williams can only be before 2:07pm because that is when the snapchat photo was posted. There is no one in the background of that picture.

It could be something as simple as, he delayed while he tried to figure out if he really wanted to go through with the crime, or, tried to figure out if it truly was the "best" opportunity for him to do what he wanted to do.

 

[TL4S]

I think I understand the probable cause affidavit in this case a little better now.

If Richard Allen was on the Monon High Bridge before Abigail Williams and Liberty German, but then walked back towards Freedom Bridge to leave, he would have passed them. I suppose that would make sense as to why Liberty German pulled out her phone to record him once he turned around to come back for them.

But if that is the case, why did he wait until 2:13 pm to abduct them? The exact timing of the last photo of Abigail Williams can only be before 2:07pm because that is when the snapchat photo was posted. There is no one in the background of that picture.

The problem with trying to figure it out is that we don't have key pieces of information. We know BG, presumably RA, was seen on the first platform (N end) before the witness turned around, went "halfway" back to the lot, and saw the girls. Although we don't have an exact time she saw him, based on other events we do know, it seems like maybe 1:50-1:55ish, imo. I put the girls to the bridge around 2pm. Jmo.

Did BG cross to the south end of the bridge and stay out of sight during the 2:05 photo, then do the U-turn? Or did he disappear into the woods while the girls walked by on the north side of the bridge? Did they pass him on the trail or bridge? We just don't know.

Personally, I suspect they were filming, taking photos, etc. during the time they were on the trail and getting onto the bridge, so BG, watching, stayed hidden. After the A photo at 2:07, L put her phone away, so he stepped onto the bridge. Maybe L didn't make it obvious she was using her camera at 2:13. Speculation.

 

[somequestions]

It could be something as simple as, he delayed while he tried to figure out if he really wanted to go through with the crime, or, tried to figure out if it truly was the "best" opportunity for him to do what he wanted to do.

I suppose.

Take the picture of Abigail Williams from the 2:07pm snapchat. Then take the picture of bridge guy later. Both have their hands in their pockets. Could I assume neither is wearing gloves?

Anyhow, these are the questions I think about without having more information.