Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[minazoe]

I realize that this is probably wishful thinking but LE can't have any conversations/interrogations with him now. The prosecutor is the only one to make deals with him, only thru his attorneys.

yeah at this point this may be true...probably..

 

[Boxer]

Now I wonder, if this witness is the one, who saw "a man doing something (namely walking around bloody/muddy like after a fight)", she thought should better be reported to police. It might be the same witness, who saw the man, and it was the YOUNG-BG. Can that be true or does it not fit together?

The witness spoke with LE on February 13, 2017. Therefore I think her observations are probably her honest recollection. The affidavit says walking, on the north side of 300 N, not stumbling out of the woods.
And she put him in the correct location to be headed for his car. She would not have known anything about the car from the news. We don't have her exact words as said to LE, but the affidavit said "bloody and muddy" and it "appeared that he had gotten into a fight". I don't see that as giving her concern for his condition, maybe he gave no indication he was in pain or injured by the way he walked. I think a lot of people would think it was none of their business and wouldn't want to "bother" 911.

page 4 of 8

Cause of death in Delphi murders still unknown, but document links Richard Allen to scene

The documents indicate that Allen is charged with felony murder, alleging he committed the killings while kidnapping Libby German and Abby Williams.

www.indystar.com

Where is this information that a witness went to police on 2/13/17 from?

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Where is this information that a witness went to police on 2/13/17 from?

If you are referring to my post, I gave the link, I specifically said from the affidavit, page 4 of 8. Open the article and scroll down to the affidavit. I have no idea of the origin of the other post you quoted.
<modsnip>

 

[Gemmie]

Source? Copy of conversation from interrogation? (Re: steeltown's post saying: A profile used by KAK was communicating with Libby on the very morning of the murders.)

A is KAK, Q is unidentified officer doing the interviewing. See the very first line of page 1 from the link at the bottom.

16 Q: - what, we need to discuss it. Okay? Umm you had told investigators umm and I
17 know you say you don't remember a girl that you ever talked to but I know you
18 remember Liberty German?
19 A: (inaudible)
20 Q: Right and you know you talked to her and you admitted to talking to her? And -
21 A: I don't think I ever did though. I think I talked to one of her friends like I told
22 them. (inaudible)
23 Q: You, you admitted that you talked to her -
1 A: (inaudible)
2 Q: - for a few hours at a sleepover and then you blocked her because she was
3 annoying. You remember that?
4 A: You're right yeah.
5 Q: You remember that?
6 A: Yeah. Um hum.

Pgs 125/126 of KAKs interrogation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yx5KO5JgwVdpVR5D9Reykk57BHVAm7VcimyvGhUa0nQ/edit

 

[steeltowngirl]

If you are referring to my post, I gave the link, I specifically said from the affidavit, page 4 of 8. Open the article and scroll down to the affidavit. I have no idea of the origin of the other post you quoted.

<modsnip>

The affidavit says the witness saw the muddy, bloody man on 2/13/17. Not “the witness came forward on 2/13/17” per your post.
We don’t when when the witness spoke with LE.

From the affidavit pg 4:
Investigators spoke with , who stated that she was traveling East on 300 North on February 13'", 2022 and observed a male subject walking West, on the North side of 300 North, away from the Monon High Bridge. advised that the male subject was wearing a blue colored jacket and blue jeans and was muddy and bloody. She further stated, that it appeared he had gotten into a fight. Investigators were able to determine from watching the video from the Hoosier Harvestore that was traveling on CR 300 North at approximately 3:57 pm.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

A is KAK, Q is unidentified officer doing the interviewing. See the very first line of page 1 from the link at the bottom.

16 Q: - what, we need to discuss it. Okay? Umm you had told investigators umm and I
17 know you say you don't remember a girl that you ever talked to but I know you
18 remember Liberty German?
19 A: (inaudible)
20 Q: Right and you know you talked to her and you admitted to talking to her? And -
21 A: I don't think I ever did though. I think I talked to one of her friends like I told
22 them. (inaudible)
23 Q: You, you admitted that you talked to her -
1 A: (inaudible)
2 Q: - for a few hours at a sleepover and then you blocked her because she was
3 annoying. You remember that?
4 A: You're right yeah.
5 Q: You remember that?
6 A: Yeah. Um hum.

Pgs 125/126 of KAKs interrogation: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yx5KO5JgwVdpVR5D9Reykk57BHVAm7VcimyvGhUa0nQ/edit

Okay, so no statement by LE or admission by KK that he spoke to L on the morning of the murders.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

Wow. Theory shaming AND a spelling critic. Nice combo.

The affidavit says the witness saw the muddy, bloody man on 2/13/17. Not “the witness came forward on 2/13/17” per your post.

He didn't give a theory, he just asked where the information was from. I made light of an obvious typo, not a spelling error.
I never wrote "the witness came forward on 2/13/17", that was on the other person's post. edit to fix typo I should have said the witness said what she saw on 2/13/17, rather than spoke on that date.

 

[steeltowngirl]

He didn't give a theory, he just asked where the information was from. I made light of an obvious typo, not a spelling error.
I never wrote "the witness came forward on 2/13/17", that was on the other person's post. edit to fix typo

This is the post I am referring to:
“The witness spoke with LE on February 13, 2017”

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162'
Found Deceased - IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

 

[Gemmie]

Okay, so no statement by LE or admission by KK that he spoke to L on the morning of the murders.

I don't know about the morning of, but she was supposed to meet with a_shots. Pgs 139-140:

11 Q: She said, did you hear about Liberty. You respond on Anthony Shots, ’O.M.G.
12 what happened?' That's talking to someone about the two girls that were missing
13 and then wound up dead.
14 A: Right, I guess you're right yeah.
15 Q: Okay same person, or the girl that you were talking to, says that Anthony Shots
16 was meeting up with Liberty German.
17 A: That's -
18 Q: The facts.
19 A: - a total lie. That's a total lie.
20 Q: And then -
21 A: That's a total ****ing lie.
22 Q: - in that conversation it goes -
23 A: That's a total lie.
1 Q: I’m, I’m (inaudible) you, it’s fact. Okay -
2 A: That’s a lie.
3 Q: - so you need to listen.
4 A: It’s not a fact
5 Q: Same conversation of the O.M.G. what happened, du-du-du-du, Anthony Shots
6 says, ‘yeah we were supposed to meet but she never showed up’.
7 A: That’s a ****ing lie. That’s a damn lie.
8 Q: How do you know? How can you -?
9 A: ‘Cause I know for a fact I did not ever talk to -
10 Q: So how do you, no, no hang on, because you don’t know a lot of things about all
11 this stuff but all of a sudden you know for a hundred percent fact-
12 A: Because I didn’t ***ing murder someone, yeah, so yeah I know -

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yx5KO5JgwVdpVR5D9Reykk57BHVAm7VcimyvGhUa0nQ/edit

So... a_shots told whoever that girl is that he was supposed to meet Libby. So either that was KAK, because he was using the a_shots account... OR someone was using his a_shots account, OR someone was told that they'd (or at least Libby) would be on the bridge on that day around that time.

All MOO from what I gleaned from KAKs interview.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

@Boxer

Where is this information that a witness went to police on 2/13/17 from?

My apology, I see you were only asking where the date came from. I realize the interview was about what she saw on the 13th, and not that the interview was on the 13th.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Last year, police announced what seemed like a real bombshell in the case: a fake social media account, "Anthony_Shots," had been communicating with Libby. The profile showed photos of a young male model, but authorities said the account actually belonged to 27-year-old Kegan Anthony Kline of Peru, Indiana.

Kline, who is currently in jail on child *advertiser censored* charges, failed a polygraph when he was asked questions about the deaths of the girls.

According to a Fox News report, a police document was accidentally posted online revealing disturbing details about Kline. He allegedly told investigators he used the social media account to communicate with Libby the day she was killed. He also allegedly used his computer to search "how long does DNA last?"

[…]

"Police have said there (is) DNA," she said. "They have made the comment that there was DNA. I know for a fact that this Anthony Shots account did have contact with Libby. I feel that he knows more than he says."

Family confirms new information in murder case of young girls in Delphi, Indiana

In an interview with Fox News that aired Tuesday, German's grandma, Becky Patty, said police have DNA in the case.

www.wdrb.com

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

So... a_shots told whoever that girl is that he was supposed to meet Libby. So either that was KAK, because he was using the a_shots account... OR someone was using his a_shots account, OR someone was told that they'd (or at least Libby) would be on the bridge on that day around that time.

LE making the statement that he told someone that "they were supposed to meet" is hearsay and KK denies it. The location/bridge is not mentioned. I have no idea if he told the sister this or not but this is not any kind of proof or evidence, either way.

 

[steeltowngirl]

Oh dear. Maybe it’s due to a lack of ‘new’ news, nitpicking starts, the vibrancy of the conversation deteriorates.

We are not conducting a trial in here. Hearsay, proof, evidence are not relevant when we are just sharing reasonable theories and opinions, stated as such.

It’s past five o’clock somewhere. Definitely is here.
I need a drink.

jmo

 

[WingsOverTX]

IMO, this isn't an issue of incompetence and it shouldn't be hand-waved away. It's clearly spelled out in this part of the opinion:

[snips from the pdf]
"This office previously addressed this issue in a case where ISP was also the respondent.

3. The role of the prosecutor and judiciary in documenting arrests ISP also cites the local prosecutor and presiding judge as factors in the delay. While that matter is being addressed in other opinions, it is notable that APRA’s daily log requirement for law enforcement is not a judicial record. As a result, the daily log is mutually exclusive from any court record over which judicial officers have purview.

The daily log statute applies to law enforcement agencies in the executive branch of government. It is an affirmative duty that cannot be bargained, pled, or motioned away through a court procedure.

This office remains convinced that much of the consternation regarding public access in this case is much of the government’s own doing. Simply put, the law enforcement agencies at play could have anticipated an onslaught of requests for the arrest information and prepared accordingly instead of keeping the public in the dark for several days until they arranged a more convenient method of disseminating information."

https://www.in.gov/pac/files/advisory/22-FC-157.pdf

RBBM
Right on! Speaking truth to power.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Wow. Theory shaming AND a spelling critic. Nice combo.

The affidavit says the witness saw the muddy, bloody man on 2/13/17. Not “the witness came forward on 2/13/17” per your post.
We don’t when when the witness spoke with LE.

From the affidavit pg 4:
Investigators spoke with , who stated that she was traveling East on 300 North on February 13'", 2022 and observed a male subject walking West, on the North side of 300 North, away from the Monon High Bridge. advised that the male subject was wearing a blue colored jacket and blue jeans and was muddy and bloody. She further stated, that it appeared he had gotten into a fight. Investigators were able to determine from watching the video from the Hoosier Harvestore that was traveling on CR 300 North at approximately 3:57 pm.

Agree on all points!

 

[MistyWaters]

Is the current circulating idea that RA murdered the girls totally independent of and unknowing of anything related to KAK's involvement with LG? I imagine that a possibility. If so, it would be quite the coincidence, imho.

It would also be quite the coincidence that Libby told KAK they were going to the bridge and KAK just happened to know RA well enough, even though the age difference, that he right away knew RA lived close by and was eager to learn of a couple of potential murder victims.

Why this doesn’t make sense to me is -
1) In this scenario why was KAK‘s involvement required? RA could’ve directly hooked up with potential online victims on his own.
2) For what reason would KAK inform RA of the girls plans to go to the bridge?
3) Why would RA require and even risk 3rd party involvement when loitering around the trail area would yield opportunity to spot girls without anyone else knowing?

 

[TL4S]

Last year, police announced what seemed like a real bombshell in the case: a fake social media account, "Anthony_Shots," had been communicating with Libby. The profile showed photos of a young male model, but authorities said the account actually belonged to 27-year-old Kegan Anthony Kline of Peru, Indiana.

Kline, who is currently in jail on child *advertiser censored* charges, failed a polygraph when he was asked questions about the deaths of the girls.

According to a Fox News report, a police document was accidentally posted online revealing disturbing details about Kline. He allegedly told investigators he used the social media account to communicate with Libby the day she was killed. He also allegedly used his computer to search "how long does DNA last?"

[…]

"Police have said there (is) DNA," she said. "They have made the comment that there was DNA. I know for a fact that this Anthony Shots account did have contact with Libby. I feel that he knows more than he says."

Family confirms new information in murder case of young girls in Delphi, Indiana

In an interview with Fox News that aired Tuesday, German's grandma, Becky Patty, said police have DNA in the case.

www.wdrb.com

What really bothers me is the fact that a_shots and L communicated at all. And that, it appears, is a fact. We don't know any more about the nature of this communication, but we do know what a_shots was trying to do to young girls, in general, and it's my assumption his intention was no different for L. This is unrelated to the murders.

But, by looking at this situation, I have to at least wonder if L was potentially and unknowingly vulnerable to becoming a victim. She had her pictures on SM, included her hometown details, and, most importantly, was willing to openly talk to people ("boys") she didn't know. Not unusual for the age group, I know. But if one catfisher found her, what's to say another couldn't have, too? We just don't know. And the Yellow app invites all sorts of risky stuff, including perps finding local girls who they can follow their SC and other SM simply by watching Yellow. So was this significant to the murders that day? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[stattlich1]

It would also be quite the coincidence that Libby told KAK they were going to the bridge and KAK just happened to know RA well enough, even though the age difference, that he right away knew RA lived close by and was eager to learn of a couple of potential murder victims.

Why this doesn’t make sense to me is -
1) In this scenario why was KAK‘s involvement required? RA could’ve directly hooked up with potential online victims on his own.
2) For what reason would KAK inform RA of the girls plans to go to the bridge?
3) Why would RA require and even risk 3rd party involvement when loitering around the trail area would yield opportunity to spot girls without anyone else knowing?

Oh yeah, I get it. There is no definitive proof at this time of a connection between between KAK and RA....at least, not that I've seen.

It could just as easy be RA knew school was out that day, and knew that kids often went to the bridge on days off, and he went there independently, with the intention of murder.

Or possibly he gleaned information through hacking in to, or having gained access otherwise, to some app of some sort.

Or possibly he was hired to silence them.

Or maybe he's a serial killer, acting alone, with no relationship whatsoever to any of the csam stuff, or a-shots, or KAK, or anybody else.

I don't think KAK sent him a text, or an email, stating that the girls would be at the bridge that day. But I DO think he MAY have had foreknowledge of their plans for the day, acquired through other means.

You see, it's ALL speculation.

 

[Betty P]

I don't know about the morning of, but she was supposed to meet with a_shots. Pgs 139-140:

11 Q: She said, did you hear about Liberty. You respond on Anthony Shots, ’O.M.G.
12 what happened?' That's talking to someone about the two girls that were missing
13 and then wound up dead.
14 A: Right, I guess you're right yeah.
15 Q: Okay same person, or the girl that you were talking to, says that Anthony Shots
16 was meeting up with Liberty German.
17 A: That's -
18 Q: The facts.
19 A: - a total lie. That's a total lie.
20 Q: And then -
21 A: That's a total ****ing lie.
22 Q: - in that conversation it goes -
23 A: That's a total lie.
1 Q: I’m, I’m (inaudible) you, it’s fact. Okay -
2 A: That’s a lie.
3 Q: - so you need to listen.
4 A: It’s not a fact
5 Q: Same conversation of the O.M.G. what happened, du-du-du-du, Anthony Shots
6 says, ‘yeah we were supposed to meet but she never showed up’.
7 A: That’s a ****ing lie. That’s a damn lie.
8 Q: How do you know? How can you -?
9 A: ‘Cause I know for a fact I did not ever talk to -
10 Q: So how do you, no, no hang on, because you don’t know a lot of things about all
11 this stuff but all of a sudden you know for a hundred percent fact-
12 A: Because I didn’t ***ing murder someone, yeah, so yeah I know -
h

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yx5KO5JgwVdpVR5D9Reykk57BHVAm7VcimyvGhUa0nQ/edit

So... a_shots told whoever that girl is that he was supposed to meet Libby. So either that was KAK, because he was using the a_shots account... OR someone was using his a_shots account, OR someone was told that they'd (or at least Libby) would be on the bridge on that day around that time.

All MOO from what I gleaned from KAKs interview.

Thanks! Yes, I knew I read this in the interview with KK. Not saying KK is linked to RA, but there's a major coincidence in this admission, the girls being in contact with Anthony Shots and RA showing up at the Monon High Bridge that day.

JMO, if there is evidence of a connection, the public likely won't know about it until it comes out at trial. They're not going to put that kind of evidence out before then. They're not going to risk a mistrial or something similar.

 

[zencompass]

Oh yeah, I get it. There is no definitive proof at this time of a connection between between KAK and RA....at least, not that I've seen.

It could just as easy be RA knew school was out that day, and knew that kids often went to the bridge on days off, and he went there independently, with the intention of murder.

Or possibly he gleaned information through hacking in to, or having gained access otherwise, to some app of some sort.

Or possibly he was hired to silence them.

Or maybe he's a serial killer, acting alone, with no relationship whatsoever to any of the csam stuff, or a-shots, or KAK, or anybody else.

I don't think KAK sent him a text, or an email, stating that the girls would be at the bridge that day. But I DO think he MAY have had foreknowledge of their plans for the day, acquired through other means.

You see, it's ALL speculation.

Dear @stattlich1,

Great post!

As you say, "it's ALL speculation" .

All we have right now are theories and speculation about connections between KAK and RA .

Until the evidence is presented at the trial - we won't know.

In the time being, we continue to post our theories or speculations which may be opposite to one another's but at least we are all here for Justice for Abby and Libby.

I greatly appreciate the good discussions here on Websleuths as this is such a comfortable and welcoming site. There is no place like it!

Great appreciation for the Mods and all of their hard work!