Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[mrjitty]

Farther down in the PC, it gives that time stamp as her leaving. If arriving and leaving are both 1:49, she barely had time to boot them out of her car. If she came from the east, the HH cam would not have seen her arrive?

To me the point is the video gives an accurate time of when the victims enter the trail, relative to woman walker. They arrive only 3 minutes after her.

 

[Boxer]

DBM

 

[TL4S]

This is a screen cap from the gate area across from Mears, looking toward HH. If KG's vehicle was caught on video, I don't think it came from HH. You can see the curve just past the car. This came from the same GH video I posted above.

View attachment 399630

Right, I think HH captured KG leaving at 1:49, so we don't know exactly what time she arrived, other than that the woman had to have arrived at the parking lot around 1:46/1:47, and reported no other cars were in the lot. Yet KG did report seeing a vehicle in that lot, which we now know likely had to be the woman's, who was the only other person in that lot. KG had to have pulled into that lot within only a minute or two of the woman, and KG couldn't have spent more than a minute or so dropping off the girls.

This is why I question the woman's "halfway" estimate, because I think the girls were likely closer behind her than that. If everybody walked a 10 min .55 mile, the woman could have gotten there around 1:58, saw the man on the bridge, turned around, walked only a minute or two, then saw the girls, who arrived at the bridge around 2, give or take a minute or two for all accounts. This would allow all the parties to be walking at a relatively normal pace and still give the girls time to take photos mid-bridge by 2:07 or before. In fact, this would give RA even less time to leave the area and BG to enter the scene, IMO.

 

[mrjitty]

Right, I think HH captured KG leaving at 1:49, so we don't know exactly what time she arrived, other than that the woman had to have arrived at the parking lot around 1:46/1:47, and reported no other cars were in the lot. Yet KG did report seeing a vehicle in that lot, which we now know likely had to be the woman's, who was the only other person in that lot. KG had to have pulled into that lot within only a minute or two of the woman, and KG couldn't have spent more than a minute or so dropping off the girls.

This is why I question the woman's "halfway" estimate, because I think the girls were likely closer behind her than that. If everybody walked a 10 min .55 mile, the woman could have gotten there around 1:58, saw the man on the bridge, turned around, walked only a minute or two, then saw the girls, who arrived at the bridge around 2, give or take a minute or two for all accounts. This would allow all the parties to be walking at a relatively normal pace and still give the girls time to take photos mid-bridge by 2:07 or before. In fact, this would give RA even less time to leave the area and BG to enter the scene, IMO.

Yes it becomes very clear RAs problem doesn’t it. If he is the guy woman walker saw then his opportunity to get off the bridge and not see the girls is small

Or otherwise he needs to complete his return from the bridge and get past mears before woman walker arrives at 1.46

 

[FrostedGlass]

My money is on 1st Sgt. JH or Det. DV.

How about TL? Pg 5 (it would sure be nice to see page 8)

https://interactive.wthr.com/pdfs/08C01-2210-MR-000001.pdf

 

[TL4S]

@FrostedGlass, I was rereading the PCA and came across the sentence you were talking about a couple days ago:

Interviews were conducted with 3 juveniles, and . They advised they were on the Monon High Bridge Trail on February 13, 2017.

Maybe someone already pointed this out and I missed it, but my thought about why there are only two spaces is because two of the girls were sisters, so their last name was used in one space, and the other girl's last name was the second space. JMO.

 

[FrostedGlass]

@FrostedGlass, I was rereading the PCA and came across the sentence you were talking about a couple days ago:

Interviews were conducted with 3 juveniles, and . They advised they were on the Monon High Bridge Trail on February 13, 2017.

Maybe someone already pointed this out and I missed it, but my thought about why there are only two spaces is because two of the girls were sisters, so their last name was used in one space, and the other girl's last name was the second space. JMO.

So it would read: 3 juveniles, Jones and Smith. It's possible.

Did you see: "probable cause affidavit executed by Tony Liggett"? Do you still think it's still either JH or DV?

 

[TL4S]

So it would read: 3 juveniles, Jones and Smith. It's possible.

Did you see: "probable cause affidavit executed by Tony Liggett"? Do you still think it's still either JH or DV?

I didn't, but it wouldn't surprise me if he's who will speak at the hearing. I think what makes me lean towards JH is because when NMcL was still trying to keep the PCA sealed, he had included an affidavit from JH about the case. JH is ISP, so I don't know if NMcL would use ISP, or Carroll Country.

 

[TL4S]

So it would read: 3 juveniles, Jones and Smith. It's possible.

Did you see: "probable cause affidavit executed by Tony Liggett"? Do you still think it's still either JH or DV?

BTW, whenever the 3 juveniles are mentioned throughout the PCA, it seems only two spaces are ever used, so there's that, too.

 

[Justice101]

BTW, whenever the 3 juveniles are mentioned throughout the PCA, it seems only two spaces are ever used, so there's that, too.

Maybe like "Jill, Tom and Sarah" _________ and _____ since the comma "'," doesn't need to be redacted.

 

[FrostedGlass]

BTW, whenever the 3 juveniles are mentioned throughout the PCA, it seems only two spaces are ever used, so there's that, too.

The sizes of the spaces are inconsistent at times. So it could be like "juvenile girls, Judy and Jody Smith and Amy Jones." Then other times, just last names are used?

Thanks. Your idea fits.

 

[UnapologeticallyAspie]

But then how did RA not see the victims?

This is the dilemma IMO - and no doubt exploited during interrogation

If walking woman sees RA on the bridge, then RA needs to get off the bridge and back down the trail without seeing the victims. Given walking woman saw the girls already inbound, this is only possible, if RA or the girls went off the trail, so as to allow one or the other past unseen.

or

If WW sees BG on the bridge - where was RA? it would appear he needed to somehow have finished his walk and returned already to avoid meeting WW on the trail.

I think we should start referring to ‘walking woman’ as WW.
What do you think?

 

[mrjitty]

I think we should start referring to ‘walking woman’ as WW.
What do you think?

Good with me - i nearly did it already!

 

[TTF14]

Right, I think HH captured KG leaving at 1:49, so we don't know exactly what time she arrived, other than that the woman had to have arrived at the parking lot around 1:46/1:47, and reported no other cars were in the lot. Yet KG did report seeing a vehicle in that lot, which we now know likely had to be the woman's, who was the only other person in that lot. KG had to have pulled into that lot within only a minute or two of the woman, and KG couldn't have spent more than a minute or so dropping off the girls.

(RSBM) But I thought the family had always said phone records confirmed to them that the girls were dropped off ten minutes earlier than that, at like 1:38. This ten-minute gap has me so confused. I'm watching the Murdaugh trial and the digital evidence matters down to the seconds, and I think it does here, too.

I just don't know what it means.

 

[TL4S]

(RSBM) But I thought the family had always said phone records confirmed to them that the girls were dropped off ten minutes earlier than that, at like 1:38. This ten-minute gap has me so confused. I'm watching the Murdaugh trial and the digital evidence matters down to the seconds, and I think it does here, too.

I just don't know what it means.

My understanding is that KG had said she was on the phone with her bf when she dropped off the girls, so in order to get a better idea at what time that was, the family looked at phone records and saw the call came in at 1:38. I think what happened was the bf called KG while they were driving to the trail, rather than right when they were getting dropped off. I don't believe LE told the family that they had video surveillance from HH, which ended up showing when KG drove past on her way westbound at 1:49, just after dropping off the girls. Just my own thoughts on the matter.

 

[TTF14]

My understanding is that KG had said she was on the phone with her bf when she dropped off the girls, so in order to get a better idea at what time that was, the family looked at phone records and saw the call came in at 1:38. I think what happened was the bf called KG while they were driving to the trail, rather than right when they were getting dropped off. I don't believe LE told the family that they had video surveillance from HH, which ended up showing when KG drove past on her way westbound at 1:49, just after dropping off the girls. Just my own thoughts on the matter.

But then she would have had to have been on the phone with him for the entire drive, really, if she didn't pull up until 1:49ish.....because the lady said no car was parked there when she arrived. Becky and Kelsi said Kelsi was on the phone with him when the girls got out of the car. I know it's complicated, but if you really think through it, it's very puzzling.

 

[TL4S]

But then she would have had to have been on the phone with him for the entire drive, really, if she didn't pull up until 1:49ish.....because the lady said no car was parked there when she arrived. Becky and Kelsi said Kelsi was on the phone with him when the girls got out of the car. I know it's complicated, but if you really think through it, it's very puzzling.

Yes, I do think she was probably on the phone with him for most of the drive, and that they didn't pull into the lot until probably 1:47/1:48ish, right after WW had parked and entered the trail. JMO.

 

[TTF14]

Yes, I do think she was probably on the phone with him for most of the drive, and that they didn't pull into the lot until probably 1:47/1:48ish, right after WW had parked and entered the trail. JMO.

I'll respectfully disagree since she has said they were cranking the music and singing with the windows down. That doesn't jive with her talking on the phone the whole time, and in fact, she would have probably even said something like "I told the girls to keep it down because I was on the phone."

Maybe the part about the singing, windows down, etc. isn't true and what you said is the accurate part.

 

[TL4S]

I'll respectfully disagree since she has said they were cranking the music and singing with the windows down. That doesn't jive with her talking on the phone the whole time, and in fact, she would have probably even said something like "I told the girls to keep it down because I was on the phone."

Maybe the part about the singing, windows down, etc. isn't true and what you said is the accurate part.

I recall her saying that, too. It is a bit confusing, but I feel like the HH video surveillance footage will be more accurate than KG's memory, at least to the court. I wonder if it is possible that the HH camera's clock was a few minutes off, and if so, would LE simply use the time given rather than correct it? Maybe I'm reaching...

 

[TL4S]

I go back to when TL (in the Carroll County Comet) said that people had turned in blue jackets, but not THE blue jacket. IMO, that is one of the more significant statements made in the entire six years. That suggests to me that they have some kind of evidence that will be able to identify the very jacket worn by the killer that day. If RA truly does have the same blue jacket he wore on the trail, like his wife says he does, then if he is the killer, his jacket will become a snitch. Not only that, but RA placed himself on the bridge, in that jacket, on that afternoon. And L's video showcases it front and center at 2:13 as he approaches them.

I know some people think he replaced that jacket with a lookalike, which is always possible. But I'm hopeful. It's a reminder to me that no matter how much we might question the timing issues in the PCA, it was enough for an arrest, and there's likely so much more evidence that will be key in court. JMO.