Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[StarryStarryNight]

Is it true that a U.S. Marshall being involved to this extent in both cases is a good indicator that KK and RA are possibly connected? Or, maybe not?

I’m not so sure.
The US Marshalls handle lots of cybercrime and cellphone data cases, so it makes a lot of sense they would be assisting with the KAK investigation and Delphi.
RA’s PCA mentions nothing indicating any online activity that brought RA to LE’s attention. It’s mostly witness statements, his own statements, and timelines verified by cellphones and security videos.
I guess I could see US Marshalls working on both cases but not sure that overlaps…as far as we know.

 

[Emma Peel]

Attached article has a cool drone video of various angles of the bridge I've never seen.

Did Delhi ever put a railing on that thing? Or repair the treads? Or is this drone video what the the bridge looks like today?

Other stuff in this article ... none of it news, but in some places a different perspective. Defense attorney here says there's plenty for defense to work with here ... thinks ballistics evidence is easily overcome as valid - won't cut it, clothing type isn't good enough b/c too common, additional investigation threads circling persons of interests hurts prosecution, and basically - no DNA evidence - no strong case.

The Delphi murders were a local tragedy. Then they became "true crime."

In my inbox sit three eerie, unsolicited photographs of a crime scene.

The photos, not graphic but disturbing all the same, were allegedly taken at the scene of the Delphi murders — the double homicide of two best friends, Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14, in rural Delphi, Indiana, in 2017. The whistleblower who sent them to me, as he calls himself, runs one (or several) of a slew of anonymous accounts who’ve recently been contacting reporters, YouTubers, and true crime podcasters in an effort to get someone to publish these allegedly exclusive photos.

The most overwhelming evidence for Allen’s guilt is that he placed himself on the bridge and he looks like Bridge Guy. According to the affidavit, Allen’s self-identified outfit of a blue jacket and jeans matched that of the suspect. This could, on the one hand, be highly damning circumstantial evidence; if he didn’t realize Libby German had caught him on camera, he’d think nothing of placing himself on the bridge. Then again, he was arguably wearing one of the most generic outfits in Indiana: a blue Carhartt jacket and jeans.

The multiple eyewitness sightings of Bridge Guy are consistent with Allen. One woman claimed to have seen a man who fits Allen’s description looking “muddy and bloody.” Then there are the ballistics. According to the affidavit, an unspent shell casing was found lying between the bodies of the victims — a casing investigators were able to match to Allen’s gun. There’s no mention in the affidavit of DNA, so this could be the best forensic evidence the state presents.

There are several problems with this, however. For starters, the entire field of ballistics evidence is increasingly considered to be subjective pseudoscience rather than legitimate forensics. And even among already-shaky ballistics, matching an individual gun cartridge to an unspent casing is an extremely rare type of evidence. In an interview with The Murder Sheet, one anonymous criminal defense attorney said he’d never seen an unspent shell casing presented as evidence in a trial.

 

[Le Singe]

LE investigators assigned to this case, as well as the State's (Prosecution) Attny, have repped to public and to Court that the investigation is ongoing and there are other related persons of interest that could be somehow involved/connected to this crime. These vague assertions may be intriguing but IMO - also frustrating. And how do they play into the Court's agreement for a gag order?

Other (non-Delhi) double murder investigations have stated they "notice" that their case and the Delhi murders share some "similarities". These are vague statements; no investigation can share such specifics. FBI and LE from other cases share info with Delhi investigation (and perhaps vice-versa). IMO that's to be expected. All follow leads. All reach out to press to encourage tips.

IMO Delhi LE erred by delaying reporting of the RA arrest publicly; when confronted they "excused" their error by pointing to Court/Prosecutor PC affidavit seals. (Not a valid excuse.) I wouldn't think the public access complaint re: LE's (accidental or intentional) delay of arrest reporting affects anything related to RA's defense.

RA's defense, if they do their job, will showcase every bit of investigation incompetence to raise reasonable doubt. Too bad this particular investigative team lost RA's early investigation interview for ... oh ... like half a decade. What else did they lose? Exculpatory evidence? Sure, why not.

Hoping they find DNA in that car. Just sayin'.

One thing that might be at play here with respect to wanting to look at RA and other crimes, is that i suspect LE like myself and others think its unlikely (but certainly not impossible) the Delphi murders was the Perps first major criminal act. It goes against most of the prevailing thinking about crime that a serious criminal would get started at 45, and start out with such a big, risky and incredibly violent crime.

 

[M. Kay]

"In my inbox sit three eerie, unsolicited photographs of a crime scene."

I'll say that quite some time ago two photos did circulate, (certainly not here on WS), though they were not convincing as fitting details we've heard about the crime scene. This said, it must feel unnerving to receive images unsolicited and not credited; I'm unsure if that's against "TOS"? (But, I have sent text --no photos ever-- unsolicited, when my response to a thread post might cross a boundary, yet is well-intended FYI.) Keep us posted?

"In my inbox sit three eerie, unsolicited photographs of a crime scene.

The photos, not graphic but disturbing all the same, were allegedly taken at the scene of the Delphi murders —"

 

[Boxer]

One thing that might be at play here with respect to wanting to look at RA and other crimes, is that i suspect LE like myself and others think its unlikely (but certainly not impossible) the Delphi murders was the Perps first major criminal act. It goes against most of the prevailing thinking about crime that a serious criminal would get started at 45, and start out with such a big, risky and incredibly violent crime.

Criminals aren’t predictable because most are opportunistic.

 

[Betty P]

Attached article has a cool drone video of various angles of the bridge I've never seen.

Did Delhi ever put a railing on that thing? Or repair the treads? Or is this drone video what the the bridge looks like today?

Other stuff in this article ... none of it news, but in some places a different perspective. Defense attorney here says there's plenty for defense to work with here ... thinks ballistics evidence is easily overcome as valid - won't cut it, clothing type isn't good enough b/c too common, additional investigation threads circling persons of interests hurts prosecution, and basically - no DNA evidence - no strong case.

The Delphi murders were a local tragedy. Then they became "true crime."

JMO, another piece of compelling evidence against RA is the fact he went to the bridge at the exact time the girls had scheduled a meet up with the "catfishing" creep on Snapchat. Add to the fact he looked like the sketch, looked like the guy seen wearing bloody clothes, etc.

Jurors do pay attention to digital evidence these days. It's too much of a coincidence that he appeared on the bridge, looking like the killer at the exact time the girls had scheduled a meeting. JMO, that evidence exceeds the "reasonable doubt" test.

 

[Tealgrove]

Is it true that a U.S. Marshall being involved to this extent in both cases is a good indicator that KK and RA are possibly connected? Or, maybe not?

That’s a good question.

I really hope we get the answers some day.

 

[Betty P]

Is it true that a U.S. Marshall being involved to this extent in both cases is a good indicator that KK and RA are possibly connected? Or, maybe not?

JMO, yes. They have a lot of tools at their disposal for tracking digital activity. None of that will be revealed, though, until the trial.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

JMO, another piece of compelling evidence against RA is the fact he went to the bridge at the exact time the girls had scheduled a meet up with the "catfishing" creep on Snapchat. Add to the fact he looked like the sketch, looked like the guy seen wearing bloody clothes, etc.

There is no evidence that the girls had a scheduled meet-up with anyone, no evidence RA knew KK or had any communication with him. This case was once, briefly, erroneously referred to as the "snapchat" murders as the bridge photo was on snapchat, put there AFTER they were already on the bridge. BTW, Snapchat postings like that are not visible to the public, only to the selected person(s). They have the victim's snapchat account and can see who can view the posts.

 

[Justice101]

JMO, another piece of compelling evidence against RA is the fact he went to the bridge at the exact time the girls had scheduled a meet up with the "catfishing" creep on Snapchat. Add to the fact he looked like the sketch, looked like the guy seen wearing bloody clothes, etc.

Jurors do pay attention to digital evidence these days. It's too much of a coincidence that he appeared on the bridge, looking like the killer at the exact time the girls had scheduled a meeting. JMO, that evidence exceeds the "reasonable doubt" test.

What the jury will see and hear is the video of RA walking toward them... then 10 seconds later after she put the phone in her back pocket or somewhere... him saying "Down the hill" and "gun".

No jury in their right mind would think that the "down the hill" comment was anyone else that happened to be behind the girls OR that RA didn't have a gun in his coat pocket.

He placed himself there and there is video/audio evidence he led them down the hill to a murder (whether he did the killing or not is immaterial).

His goose is cooked.

 

[Betty P]

There is no evidence that the girls had a scheduled meet-up with anyone, no evidence RA knew KK or had any communication with him. This case was once, briefly, erroneously referred to as the "snapchat" murders as the bridge photo was on snapchat, put there AFTER they were already on the bridge. BTW, Snapchat postings like that are not visible to the public, only to the selected person(s). They have the victim's snapchat account and can see who can view the posts.

We can't say there is no evidence. Most key evidence is under wraps until the trial. There's probably more evidence, but that won't be revealed. There's a gag order in place, IIRC. There's no need for the prosecution to have to try their case in the news media prior to the trial. Perhaps better to relax and wait until the trial begins. JMO

There was information released in the past that the girls were communicating with the catfishing person online and that they had communicated with him that day. Close enough taken in context of the other evidence that's been publicly revealed linking RA to the crime.

 

[Gemmie]

What the jury will see and here is the video of RA walking toward them... then 10 seconds later after she put the phone in her back pocket or somewhere... him saying "Down the hill" and "gun".

No jury in their right mind would that the "down the hill" comment was anyone else that happened to be behind the girls OR that RA didn't have a gun in his coat pocket.

He placed himself there and there is video/audio evidence he led them down the hill to a murder (whether he did the killing or not is immaterial).

His goose is cooked.

Not to mention it seems (to me) that he very likely had the gun that LE listed in their search warrant as per the warrant. So Abbie says 'Gun', and low and behold, an unspent round, determined to have been cycled though his gun that he says he never loans out, was found near their bodies.

investigators found a .40 caliber unspent round less than two feet away from one of the bodies, and between the two victims.

Lab results confirmed the unspent round had been cycled through Allen's Sig Sauer, the affidavit said.

Delphi murders: Suspect Richard Allen's attorneys say he 'has nothing to hide'

"Like many people in Delphi, Rick wanted to help any way he could," the suspect's attorneys said.

abc30.com

 

[Justice101]

Yeh, I mean from the surface, they got their man and there is more than enough evidence in a normal trial to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

[Betty P]

Yeh, I mean from the surface, they got their man and there is more than enough evidence in a normal trial to convict beyond a reasonable doubt.

Agree, and also likely they have more evidence that will come out at trial. It's the way most cases are built - on various items of evidence that, linked together, show the defendant is guilty. Cases don't always have that "smoking gun" piece of evidence that shows guilt beyond all doubt.

Defense attorneys are always going to tell the news media that their client is totally innocent.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

We can't say there is no evidence. Most key evidence is under wraps until the trial. There's probably more evidence, but that won't be revealed. There's a gag order in place, IIRC. There's no need for the prosecution to have to try their case in the news media prior to the trial. Perhaps better to relax and wait until the trial begins. JMO

There was information released in the past that the girls were communicating with the catfishing person online and that they had communicated with him that day. Close enough taken in context of the other evidence that's been publicly revealed linking RA to the crime.

JMO, another piece of compelling evidence against RA is the fact he went to the bridge at the exact time the girls had scheduled a meet up with the "catfishing" creep on Snapchat. Add to the fact he looked like the sketch, looked like the guy seen wearing bloody clothes, etc.

If we can't say there is no evidence then we certainly can't say there is evidence and at that call the not disclosed evidence "compelling evidence" and call your opinons facts. Mixing/linking known evidence about RA with your opinions about KK, does not give weight to the idea that KK is somehow involved in the murders. There is no "fact" that RA went to the bridge at the exact same time as the girls on because he knew the exact time they would be there. MOO

 

[Betty P]

If we can't say there is no evidence then we certainly can't say there is evidence and at that call the not disclosed evidence "compelling evidence" and call your opinons facts. Mixing/linking known evidence about RA with your opinions about KK, does not give weight to the idea that KK is somehow involved in the murders. There is no "fact" that RA went to the bridge at the exact same time as the girls on because he knew the exact time they would be there. MOO

We do know of the evidence that has been revealed in the news media so far that connects RA to the murders.

JMO, there is probably additional evidence that hasn't been made public that further links RA to the murders. There may be evidence that links RA to KK in some way. JMO, I believe there is digital evidence, but there may also be other evidence, as well.

We will know more when the trial begins.

I hope this clears things up. It's pretty much my standard position when folks are discussing an upcoming trial. We hear of some validated evidence before, but there's always more revealed during the trial.

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

We do know of the evidence that has been revealed in the news media so far that connects RA to the murders.

JMO, there is probably additional evidence that hasn't been made public that further links RA to the murders. There may be evidence that links RA to KK in some way. JMO, I believe there is digital evidence, but there may also be other evidence, as well.

We will know more when the trial begins.

I hope this clears things up. It's pretty much my standard position when folks are discussing an upcoming trial. We hear of some validated evidence before, but there's always more revealed during the trial.

I don't think there is anything to clear up with RA being the accused murderer. We have the affidavit.


That has nothing to do with your claims that there are "facts" and "compelling evidence" about KK. Also, in my opinion, since KK is finally off the table as BG, some are still looking for a way to connect him to RA and/or the murders.

 

[sandy_80]

ppl still bringing up KAK interrogations CLAIMS as facts
we dont know if they girls went there to meet anyone.. thats just an a assumption
..and we have the MS to thank for it

 

[Betty P]

I don't think there is anything to clear up with RA being the accused murderer. We have the affidavit.


That has nothing to do with your claims that there are "facts" and "compelling evidence" about KK. Also, in my opinion, since KK is finally off the table as BG, some are still looking for a way to connect him to RA and/or the murders.

I'm confused about your statement, but no big deal. YMMV

We'll see the evidence at the trial. We'll see what happens with KK.

 

[Betty P]

ppl still bringing up KAK interrogations CLAIMS as facts
we dont know if they girls went there to meet anyone.. thats just an a assumption
..and we have the MS to thank for it

You're right. KK and RA are both innocent and the killer will never be found. Just kidding.

I need to follow my old practice of staying out of these kind of threads until the trial begins.