Found Deceased IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #162

[Bbgiraffe]

The following is just a weird thing that has become a bit of a headscratcher to me ...
It's just me, mulling my own impressions ... so MOO.

Also, thanks for letting me get it off my chest. I'm guessing it's been asked or mulled-about in these threads before. Maybe it's been beat to death and all figured out. LOL. So ...

The "Guys" audio addition sticks in my craw - a headscratcher.
a) Wondering why (LE) withhold that tidbit for 5-years in?
b) Who approaches 2 strange girls on a hike (that they've never met prior) and calls them "guys"? Much less, "Guys, go this way."
c) The use of "Guys, down the hill" is a directional instruction. One would think it's not a first sentence upon a first meeting.
d) Is it interesting that the girls made a choice to film this random dude walking towards them (Why was he interesting enough to film? Why was he interesting enough to wait and watch as he negotiated the tracks slowly? If he was weird or threatening, would they stand there and film? Had they met BG guy at some point beforehand?)
e) The voice recording has been disembodied from the BG walking video. We actually don't know when "Guys down the hill" was uttered during audio/video capture.
d) Add to this that we're told one of the girls can be heard later in same video to say "Gun", along additional walking sounds.

The whole line "Guys, down the hill" seems an odd first sentence to speak to 2 young girls who are strangers. Would you say "Guys, down the hill" to 2 young girls, strangers to you, that you just came upon? Or would you say it to kids who expected you, and waited for your direction?

Probably overthinking this. Still, it BUGs me.

Again ... 5 years of keeping "Guys" from the public. Maybe someday we'll understand why. Clearly quite a bit we don't yet understand.

I think they filmed him because they had a bad vibe from him. He claims he was sitting on a bench looking at his phone. If I was a 13 year old girl out for a walk and I see a man sitting on a bench who suddenly starts following me across a dead end bridge, I'm going to take notice.

Also possible the theory that he followed the other witness who turned around before crossing the bridge back on the trail but then turned around abruptly started following Abby and Libby, which would have also raised suspicions.

MOO, he said "guys" to get their attention because even though they were aware of him, they may have been acting cool, pretending to ignore him and then he displayed the gun, directing them "down the hill".

 

[FromGermany1]

If you mean THIS it's closed.

Found Deceased - IN - IMAGE discussion re Abigail Williams, 13, & Liberty German, 14, Delphi

When reducing the brightness you see these areas suggestive of areas reflecting light: These areas include the "white thing" peaking out of the BG's jacket. Whatever it is, the material seems therefore to have some reflective properties. ALL IMO -Nin I have not decided what I think the...

www.websleuths.com

It would be more useful now than in the years before, I think.

 

[TheVisual]

It would be more useful now than in the years before, I think.

I surely do miss it. I referred back to the earlier pictures many times and conversations. Especially when WebSight was using her daughter for comparison in reanactments. Also when Michael Gartley(image specialist) contributed. Any way any of that could be brought back?

 

[Boxer]

I think they filmed him because they had a bad vibe from him. He claims he was sitting on a bench looking at his phone. If I was a 13 year old girl out for a walk and I see a man sitting on a bench who suddenly starts following me across a dead end bridge, I'm going to take notice.

Also possible the theory that he followed the other witness who turned around before crossing the bridge back on the trail but then turned around abruptly started following Abby and Libby, which would have also raised suspicions.

MOO, he said "guys" to get their attention because even though they were aware of him, they may have been acting cool, pretending to ignore him and then he displayed the gun, directing them "down the hill".

Just one note.
He was on the bridge as they approached.
The witness saw him on
platform 1, turned around and passed the girls who were on their way to the MHB, MOO he either passed them on the trail or he went out of sight across the bridge or into the woods. The bench is at trail junction at the Mears lot to go down to the creek or to the MHB.

 

[minazoe]

I don't think they had any interaction with BG prior to him coming towards them..some have speculated that he may have been exposing himself or something about him made them laugh at him..honestly I don't think they had that kind of hubris..if something was that weird I think they would have called home and would not have continued across that bridge..but I do wonder if they were hanging out because they knew he was still down there and they thought that was weird and maybe didn't want to come upon him again...because of bad vibes..or just the rules of the bridge about clearing the bridge first /no passing..mOO

 

[TL4S]

From the RA affidavit:

The video recovered from Victim 2's phone shows Victim 1 walking southeast on the Monon High Bridge while male subject wearing dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victims mentions, "gun". Near the end of the video male is seen and heard telling the girls, "Guys, Down the hill." The girls then begin to proceed down the hill and the video ends.

This was at 2:13 on the far south end of the bridge. I think BG had to have entered the bridge soon after L's SC photo of A, which was viewed at 2:07, according to some sources, but I'm not sure we know exactly the time she took the photo or posted it. In any case, I think the chances are that he started walking towards them while they were just over halfway across the bridge. My gut feeling based on the wording in the affidavit is that he came from the north end, rather than the south end doing a u-turn, but that's just my assumption. If he was already at the south end when they got there, why not just pull his gun and order them DTH right then and there? Would it really have benefited him that much to walk partway across to check for people coming and then turn around and come back? Anyone could have entered during his walk back. It doesn't make sense to me.

We know he was seen on the first platform at the north end only minutes before the girls got there, and we know he was out of view in the SC photos, so I think it's possible they passed him on the trail by the very north end of bridge, either knowingly or not. Then, he waited. That's what is disturbing to me. He had to have waited for several minutes while they crossed the first half of the bridge. I suppose he could have walked up the trail to check for people coming, or he could have waited somewhere out of view, maybe even watching L take those photos on the bridge. It makes me wonder if L had her phone out on the trail, too. He wouldn't have wanted to be caught on camera, after all...

 

[gizmobtj]

I don't think they had any interaction with BG prior to him coming towards them..some have speculated that he may have been exposing himself or something about him made them laugh at him..honestly I don't think they had that kind of hubris..if something was that weird I think they would have called home and would not have continued across that bridge..but I do wonder if they were hanging out because they knew he was still down there and they thought that was weird and maybe didn't want to come upon him again...because of bad vibes..or just the rules of the bridge about clearing the bridge first /no passing..mOO

I put a lot of weight into the idea, based on the PCA, that was ahead of them, crossed the bridge or stood at the bridge during their infil. If he was ahead of them and made it to the trail end, Libby's first two pictures not having anyone else in them would make sense. Him being at the entrance at that time makes no sense in my opinion because of the time it takes to cross. If he wad behind them, passed them and turned around, it would make a lot of sense why Libby would start videoing.4,

To me, this would be likely if it was planned and he confirmed victim selection when they passed him in the first scenario and they passed him in the second scenario.

Neither of these scenarios preclude them being targeted prior to going to the bridge, being semi-targeted and then being confirmed as targets on the bridge or them being entirely targets of opportunity

 

[StarryStarryNight]

From the RA affidavit:

The video recovered from Victim 2's phone shows Victim 1 walking southeast on the Monon High Bridge while male subject wearing dark jacket and jeans walks behind her. As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2, one of the victims mentions, "gun". Near the end of the video male is seen and heard telling the girls, "Guys, Down the hill." The girls then begin to proceed down the hill and the video ends.

This was at 2:13 on the far south end of the bridge. I think BG had to have entered the bridge soon after L's SC photo of A, which was viewed at 2:07, according to some sources, but I'm not sure we know exactly the time she took the photo or posted it. In any case, I think the chances are that he started walking towards them while they were just over halfway across the bridge. My gut feeling based on the wording in the affidavit is that he came from the north end, rather than the south end doing a u-turn, but that's just my assumption. If he was already at the south end when they got there, why not just pull his gun and order them DTH right then and there? Would it really have benefited him that much to walk partway across to check for people coming and then turn around and come back? Anyone could have entered during his walk back. It doesn't make sense to me.

We know he was seen on the first platform at the north end only minutes before the girls got there, and we know he was out of view in the SC photos, so I think it's possible they passed him on the trail by the very north end of bridge, either knowingly or not. Then, he waited. That's what is disturbing to me. He had to have waited for several minutes while they crossed the first half of the bridge. I suppose he could have walked up the trail to check for people coming, or he could have waited somewhere out of view, maybe even watching L take those photos on the bridge. It makes me wonder if L had her phone out on the trail, too. He wouldn't have wanted to be caught on camera, after all...

I think you are absolutely right with this.

Some things that get me in the quote from the RA affidavit:
They’re talking about Libby’s video here.

“As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2…” and “Near the end of the video male is SEEN and heard telling the girls…”.

If these two statements are true, then LE had video showing much closer shots of the Bridge Guy than what they released to the public. Granted, it’s possible the shots weren’t clear or BG hid his face or something, but I doubt it. LE hinted plenty of times that that pathetic 2 second video they released was all there was, but, to me, the quotes above suggest, if not prove, that Libby videoed BG all the way across the bridge, and I would argue the closer he got the better the chance that someone would have recognized him, even if the picture wasn’t perfect.
Mindboggling why LE wouldn’t release more to the public especially considering that we know now how clueless they were through those five years.
There is much they need to explain.

 

[TL4S]

I think you are absolutely right with this.

Some things that get me in the quote from the RA affidavit:
They’re talking about Libby’s video here.

“As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2…” and “Near the end of the video male is SEEN and heard telling the girls…”.

If these two statements are true, then LE had video showing much closer shots of the Bridge Guy than what they released to the public. Granted, it’s possible the shots weren’t clear or BG hid his face or something, but I doubt it. LE hinted plenty of times that that pathetic 2 second video they released was all there was, but, to me, the quotes above suggest, if not prove, that Libby videoed BG all the way across the bridge, and I would argue the closer he got the better the chance that someone would have recognized him, even if the picture wasn’t perfect.
Mindboggling why LE wouldn’t release more to the public especially considering that we know now how clueless they were through those five years.
There is much they need to explain.

I'm curious how L was holding her phone at the time. It's been discussed a lot over the years, but I don't think we really know for fact. I wonder if she actually didn't capture that much of him during her video, or if it was just blurry bits here and there as her movement happened by. It's just hard to tell. Maybe it was only a jumbled mess of blue when he got closer. It would be interesting to see how much detail was visible.

 

[FromGermany1]

I think you are absolutely right with this.

Some things that get me in the quote from the RA affidavit:
They’re talking about Libby’s video here.

“As the male subject approaches Victim 1 and Victim 2…” and “Near the end of the video male is SEEN and heard telling the girls…”.

If these two statements are true, then LE had video showing much closer shots of the Bridge Guy than what they released to the public. Granted, it’s possible the shots weren’t clear or BG hid his face or something, but I doubt it. LE hinted plenty of times that that pathetic 2 second video they released was all there was, but, to me, the quotes above suggest, if not prove, that Libby videoed BG all the way across the bridge, and I would argue the closer he got the better the chance that someone would have recognized him, even if the picture wasn’t perfect.
Mindboggling why LE wouldn’t release more to the public especially considering that we know now how clueless they were through those five years.
There is much they need to explain.

IF in the pic of BG a sleeve of Abby was to be seen at first (later removed from the pic and hidden from the public), then he couldn't have been so far away, IMO. So I think, this WAS a closer shot.

 

[M. Kay]

I don't think they had any interaction with BG prior to him coming towards them..some have speculated that he may have been exposing himself or something about him made them laugh at him..honestly I don't think they had that kind of hubris..

I've mentioned in earlier days that Anna Williams made a candid video statement about her experience of seeing what was on the phone. It sounded as if there is more information, anxiety provoking, revealing logistics. She said she chose not to view/hear the end of the recording. (Not that long ago I reminded here on WS that before they came to the bridge, one girl, A?, asked the other if "that creepy guy is still following us.") Does anyone think they have sent Abby's image on the bridge directly to someone before BG/RA came on it?

 

[FromGermany1]

I've mentioned in earlier days that Anna Williams made a candid video statement about her experience of seeing what was on the phone. It sounded as if there is more information, anxiety provoking, revealing logistics. She said she chose not to view/hear the end of the recording. (Not that long ago I reminded here on WS that before they came to the bridge, one girl, A?, asked the other if "that creepy guy is still following us.") Does anyone think they have sent Abby's image on the bridge directly to someone before BG/RA came on it?

Afaik, a boy, who received the pic, took a screen shot.

 

[M. Kay]

Afaik, a boy, who received the pic, took a screen shot.

Thanks, and is it known if that boy was more related to one girl or the other? I don't recall this; and as said before, if I'd have thought we'd still be putting pieces together this year, I'd have organized a file.

 

[sandy_80]

Just one note.
He was on the bridge as they approached.
The witness saw him on
platform 1, turned around and passed the girls who were on their way to the MHB, MOO he either passed them on the trail or he went out of sight across the bridge or into the woods. The bench is at trail junction at the Mears lot to go down to the creek or to the MHB.

libby and abby came in from a different entrance ...he came from freedom bridge.. no one can tell how they met and where..he might have been lurking waiting for them to get on the bridge
in my opinion ..there is no way they went on that bridge with him there..and they passed him ..its not safe

 

[ghostrighter]

What if he climbed down from platform one onto one of the pillars and waited until Libby and Abbey passed over him on the bridge. Witness sees BG on the first platform (looking at fish) Was he looking for a way to climb down onto a pillar and hide. Once the girls pass and get further on the bridge, he climbs up and follows them. Moo
Like "where did this guy come from" or "there's a guy who just climbed up from under the bridge and headed this way" moment....

 

[FromGermany1]

Thanks, and is it known if that boy was more related to one girl or the other? I don't recall this; and as said before, if I'd have thought we'd still be putting pieces together this year, I'd have organized a file.

The pic was sent by Libby and the pic showed Abby - so I think, he had a connection to both girls (but I don't know for sure). Unfortunately I have no files at all.
I believe, LE knows the boy's name.

 

[sandy_80]

I'm curious how L was holding her phone at the time. It's been discussed a lot over the years, but I don't think we really know for fact. I wonder if she actually didn't capture that much of him during her video, or if it was just blurry bits here and there as her movement happened by. It's just hard to tell. Maybe it was only a jumbled mess of blue when he got closer. It would be interesting to see how much detail was visible.

the only reasonable answer is that as soon as he came closer.. she shoved the phone in her pocket cause if he had seen it he would have destroyed it or attacked them then and there ..the phone didnt record images after that only sounds

 

[sandy_80]

how many witnesses are there anyway
we knew about the freedom girls since the beginning...but two other women ? is the one who saw him at platform one the same who saw him after the murders ?
how is it with all local sleuths on the ground .. we never heard of the platform one female ..is she new ..did she come forward recently and if she wasnt..why did le say they didnt think anyone saw BG come and go ?
they didnt trust a single witness !

 

[NoSpoonFeeding]

why did le say they didnt think anyone saw BG come and go ?

If you mean before RA was arrested, I'm guessing they didn't want BG to know that someone may have already reported seeing him muddy and bloody. That witness was probably feeling like he may be able to find/recognize her and it was safer if no one knew she had seen him heading toward his car.

 

[sandy_80]

If you mean before RA was arrested, I'm guessing they didn't want BG to know that someone may have already reported seeing him muddy and bloody. That witness was probably feeling like he may be able to find/recognize her and it was safer if no one knew she had seen him heading toward his car.

i dont mean from le ..I mean from the sleuths ..there was one very close to locals who told us about all of the witnesses but we never heard about these two females or is it one ..we dont know
this means only one witness saw both bg and the girls and was never seen by anyone else ...