IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

[arielilane]

Video 41:42 minutes

Delphi Murders | The Clues Left Behind​

Teen girls, Abigail Williams and Liberty German, were going on a walk in 2017 when they were tragically killed. The viral case became known as the "Delphi Murders." #RichardAllen was arrested and accused of the killings. However, new court filings from the defense claim this was a ritual killing done by Odinists, not Allen. #CourtTV examines the evidence of the crime scene and breaks down the clues left behind.

Delphi Murders | The Clues Left Behind​

Premiered Sep 19, 2023

 

[lgh0309]

Yes, the document reminds me of the satanic panic from the 1980s. People were convinced satanic cults were running daycare centers.

jmo

and people were wrongfully convicted and did a lot of time for things they didn’t do bc of it

 

[Charlot123]

Literally

Because it's a SODDI defense in advance, which is apparently the newest thing in defenses.

So it going to be nothing but an attempt at some uncertainty in somebody.

SODDI as in “Some Odinist Dude Did It”?

 

[ReadySet]

I have never thought RA acted alone and it makes total sense to me if he was hired or bribed to obtain the girls and lead them to where the crime scene would be. I absolutely believe he accept that “job”.

And the cult isn’t a figment of imagination….now whether or not they had any involvement in crime is up for debate, who knows, but it’s not up for debate that this cult is a real thing in that area.

Speaking as someone who grew up in a midwestern small town that had a creepy cult that was an open secret in our town (you knew not to leave your pets out etc) and the fact that our small cute town had a lot of hidden crime, I can fully believe that a cult would be involved in the Delphi murders. Some people think it sounds ridiculous but that’s because they haven’t experienced living around that.

Wow. Scary.
Did the cult in your town murder people?

 

[Marzipan]

From what has been revealed about tips given that were not taken seriously, having to continue giving them to other agencies, from reports ( I have no documentation, other than tidbits in report about this odinism group operating in area and EARLY on the mentions in various threads on many crime sleuth sites about these individuals...) Did you find it odd that in the report one LE had to report what was said in his presence about spitting on the victim to another agency because of his concern that there was no interest in this guy saying that ? re: Elvis. Perhaps this was not SO CLEAR early on but it seems that people feel there was a lack of spotlight on certain people that needed to be carefully vetted. I also get the sad feeling that there is alot of fear of these people, perhaps some shared interests and views among LE? Prison employees?, I am just giving my opinion. I think I will leave it at that. I know that a plain old sleuther felt so compelled to report some of his digging and intel from those early on social media findings he found that he met resistance and apathy, and had to persevere...and ended up having the authorities come to him states away for the info much later.

The sleuthers, or anyone, who submit tips typically do not hear back though. LE can’t tell them what came of any follow-up to protect the investigation. Yes, we are all tired of hearing that but at times we also see why it’s often for the best. Frustrating for those who submit tips, I’m sure.

Now I realize the defense is going further and saying they know, based on discovery, the tips weren’t given enough attention. Or not shared enough or whatever. I hope the prosecutors can respond.

But for heavens sake, this is really too much. I’m thinking if Danny Heinrich hadn’t confessed to Jacob Wetterling’s abduction and murder, defense lawyers like these could have put up similar smoke screens since there were rumors of satanist cults and it was around Halloween.

In Delphi, they wanted a good SODDI defense, they had a gazillion options with all of the suspects we’ve all heard about, but they went with the most titillating option possible, presented in a true crime writing style. It’s just cruel.

 

[lgh0309]

Taking his confessions w/a grain of salt unless he disclosed something solid. Need something of substance.... only the killer would know. moo

or maybe once we hear the audio the context, tone of voice and emotion will tell us it’s real. like the “down the hill” clip sends absolute terror down one’s spine…a different but analogous gut feeling that the statement has meaning

incriminating statements/confessions etc. are a huge backbone of our system and juries in general convict based on such statements without over-analyzing them, they are taken at face value…often people are convicted based just on their own statements plus another thing or two…if these lawyers are capable of actual legal briefing, they’d be filing a quality motion to keep the statements out if they had the grounds to…recorded jail calls are pretty common evidence and they will most likely come in… of course it’s impossible to know til we hear them…and i need to become verified but as a criminal defense lawyer i can tell ya there’s nothing worse than when first chatting w the prosecutor getting an overview of the case and the evidence they say “and there’s a disk with recorded jail calls…”. toast

 

[Charlot123]

Exactly! Not to mention…

1. How did these supposed cult members know exactly where to find the girls that day?
2. If they were seeking revenge against Abby’s mom, why were they exceedingly brutal to Libby?
3. Is it beyond mere coincidence that RA told LE that he was by the bridge that day, and was wearing the same clothing as BG?
4. Why aren’t more violent crimes by the cult mentioned in the media?

To be honest, early articles said that AW wanted to meet with her BF that day, but he and his dad were at a farmer’s auction. Not questioning the alibi (or rather, questioning everything because I am skeptical of ISP), but everyone knew A&L were at the bridge, didn’t they invite people with them?

 

[kittythehare]

The sleuthers, or anyone, who submit tips typically do not hear back though. LE can’t tell them what came of any follow-up to protect the investigation. Yes, we are all tired of hearing that but at times we also see why it’s often for the best. Frustrating for those who submit tips, I’m sure.

Now I realize the defense is going further and saying they know, based on discovery, the tips weren’t given enough attention. Or not shared enough or whatever. I hope the prosecutors can respond.

But for heavens sake, this is really too much. I’m thinking if Danny Heinrich hadn’t confessed to Jacob Wetterling’s abduction and murder, defense lawyers like these could have put up similar smoke screens since there were rumors of satanist cults and it was around Halloween.

In Delphi, they wanted a good SODDI defense, they had a gazillion options with all of the suspects we’ve all heard about, but they went with the most titillating option possible, presented in a true crime writing style. It’s just cruel.

No real surprise there.
They proclaimed his innocence before they read the PCA.
It won't wash.
It also disrespects the victims.
Those details should have remained sealed until the actual trial.
Diluting the horror of what those kids went through is akin to aiding and abetting IMO.
Cheap.

 

[kittythehare]

I have never thought RA acted alone and it makes total sense to me if he was hired or bribed to obtain the girls and lead them to where the crime scene would be. I absolutely believe he accept that “job”.

And the cult isn’t a figment of imagination….now whether or not they had any involvement in crime is up for debate, who knows, but it’s not up for debate that this cult is a real thing in that area.

Speaking as someone who grew up in a midwestern small town that had a creepy cult that was an open secret in our town (you knew not to leave your pets out etc) and the fact that our small cute town had a lot of hidden crime, I can fully believe that a cult would be involved in the Delphi murders. Some people think it sounds ridiculous but that’s because they haven’t experienced living around that.

All cults are not the same.
All cults do not target and murder kids, having done nothing to arouse suspicion prior to that act.
There is actually no evidence of a cult involvement or the involvement of more than one person, the accused.
His motivation is unknown. We have always known that their bodies were 'staged' but we did not know what that referenced.

If it's in reference to anything at all it's to do with the internal macabre workings of the accused's mind and nothing else.

 

[Charlot123]

You know, I am still not sure it is RA. Remember this?

Judge worried for family's safety after sealing court docs in Delphi murders recused from case

Judge Benjamin Diener also begged state court administrators to help him deal with a brewing “storm” of requests for information.

www.wthr.com

“In his order, Diener said he "has determined that the particular circumstances within the underlying case warrant recusal and dictate that a special judge be appointed in this case."

It is not clear what the circumstances are that the judge referenced, but in previous emails and court documents – he has cited safety concerns and that he and his staff have been overwhelmed by the public attention and requests for information.”

So what’s so particular about an <modsnip - no link to source> CVS clerk killing two girls? Where is the level of safety concern? Why the need to seal the case?

Much as I don’t believe in ritual sacrifices, maybe the tiny local judge was afraid of some local group?

 

[steeltowngirl]

Even the Odinists are upset by the sensationalism.

"Odinist Ritual" Defense shows that enough is enough.

When is enough, enough? When will good Heathens, Asatruar, and Norse Pagans come together and say this is the last time we let racists speak for us? Now, preferably.

thetroth.org

 

[renah]

I don't think the Defense is actually saying BH did this horrible deed. IMO they are speculating that 2 (non-desirable) Odin wannabes did this in order to join the group. BH was the person they needed to please and also, possibly, the person who knew the girls would be on the bridge that day.

Yes, they also mention the subsequent falling out between Holder and Westfall but imo that's just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

BH's Facebook kinda creeps me out with all his SHAVING WITH A STRAIGHT EDGE posts..

 

[Charlot123]

I don't think the Defense is actually saying BH did this horrible deed. IMO they are speculating that 2 (non-desirable) Odin wannabes did this in order to join the group. BH was the person they needed to please and also, possibly, the person who knew the girls would be on the bridge that day.

Yes, they also mention the subsequent falling out between Holder and Westfall but imo that's just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

BH's Facebook kinda creeps me out with all his SHAVING WITH A STRAIGHT EDGE posts..

I was mostly surprised by his voice. One more candidate for BG.

 

[kittythehare]

Even the Odinists are upset by the sensationalism.

"Odinist Ritual" Defense shows that enough is enough.

When is enough, enough? When will good Heathens, Asatruar, and Norse Pagans come together and say this is the last time we let racists speak for us? Now, preferably.

thetroth.org

Excellent piece.
'

'the defense seemingly a fever dream of conspiracies, it has lit the media imagination ablaze.'​

Nailed it.

 

[TL4S]

I wonder if Libby dropped it intentionally and stepped on it to hide it. Then when she took off her shoe she left her shoe on top of the phone and RA simply never saw the phone and didn’t move Libby’s shoe when he killed Abby and didn’t realize there was a shoe and phone under Abby’s back or leg, since the defense mentioned both not really sure where the shoe & phone were.

I'm still curious about if the killer was aware of L's dad calling her at 3:11, 3:14, and so on. IIRC, the document put TOD between 2:30 and 3:30, and the muddy (maybe bloody) guy on 300 RD at 3:57, so it seems possible he knew about the calls. Of course, the phone could have been on silent, and not seen lighting up if upside down or underneath the shoe or A at the time.

I'm also curious why not more has ever been said, by either side, about the creek crossing. It had to have happened. A's clothing was described as clean with little blood or dirt, but were they wet or not (L's were apparently in the creek?)? Did I miss this information? I feel like I missed something also about the creek depth? Which leads to another item I'm curious about...

How risky is putting all the crime scene details out there if the investigation is still open? This alone could bring the crackpots out, confessing to the killings. Or, will these details, in the end, show that RA was the crackpot at the time of his admissions, because they don't match the details?

And why did the D get the clothing information wrong? L was not wearing jeans, correct? There was no mention of underwear, or if the second bra was L's or if they both were A's (if she was doing a layering thing). A was already wearing jeans and a sweatshirt in the infamous last bridge photo. What is the evidence that A was ever undressed? And why was one of L's shoes under A but the other visible to a searcher, possibly in the water?

Just some things mulling around in my head. And JMO.

 

[Havingacrisis]

Excellent piece.
'

'the defense seemingly a fever dream of conspiracies, it has lit the media imagination ablaze.'​

Nailed it.

I am so honestly confused by the popular reception to this brief

The odinism ties were repeatedly made by LE. FBI apparently concluded a likely odinist perpetrator (edit: mid read, that’s not confirmed). These briefs use the state’s discovery. It isn’t a wild theory by the defense, they are not making anything up(even if some interpretations have been specifically made!)

I don’t know if ra is or isn’t involved, there’s not enough information here to be persuaded either way beyond reasonable doubt imo. But why so many are dismissing this brief, which is outright accusing CCSO of shady tactics *with* receipts - their own receipts, because it sounds fantastical or like a conspiracy I just can’t understand. And I am as anti conspiracy theory as they come

Edit: of course I predict the prosecution will have to lean into how fantastical it all sounds to discredit this brief. Which will be interesting because it is their own investigation at play here

Jmo

 

[Sjöberg]

I'm still curious about if the killer was aware of L's dad calling her at 3:11, 3:14, and so on. IIRC, the document put TOD between 2:30 and 3:30, and the muddy (maybe bloody) guy on 300 RD at 3:57, so it seems possible he knew about the phone. Of course, it could have been on silent, and not seen lighting up if upside down or underneath the shoe or A at the time.

I have thought about it, too. On the one hand, most people under the age of 40 that I know have their phone on silent on all times. But I am not in the US and it is not 2017. The phone could also be on silent since last school or other locations where it had to be on silent mode (I used to always forget to change it back). On the other hand, she was a teenager who used all sorts of communication and would probably keep at least all the other sounds on. And as the killer had to know that she did have a phone, it seems a little bit odd if he never took it from her nor kept an eye on it enough to notice any of the incoming calls, even if it was on silent - but of course the killer was probably busy and had a lot going on in the moment, both in his head and with controlling 2 kids. Sorry, rambling. MOO

How's the cell service over there? Didn't some calls go to voicemail? When did the phone stop recording after the "down the hill" and what caused it to stop recording?

Edit: as we are talking about the phone - wasn't it also told, that Libby had done a factory reset to her phone shortly before the murders? Was this ever confirmed by LE? (one source)

 

[TL4S]

I have thought about it, too. On the one hand, most people under the age of 40 that I know have their phone on silent on all times. But I am not in the US and it is not 2017. The phone could also be on silent since last school or other locations where it had to be on silent mode (I used to always forget to change it back). On the other hand, she was a teenager who used all sorts of communication and would probably keep at least all the other sounds on. And as the killer had to know that she did have a phone, it seems a little bit odd if he never took it from her nor kept an eye on it enough to notice any of the incoming calls, even if it was on silent - but of course the killer was probably busy and had a lot going on in the moment, both in his head and with controlling 2 kids. Sorry, rambling. MOO

How's the cell service over there? Didn't some calls go to voicemail? When did the phone stop recording after the "down the hill" and what caused it to stop recording?

Good questions. I will say, I've never been comfortable assuming it was on silent when L knew her dad would call her when he got to the trails. Then again, she was probably holding it the entire time.

And IMO, her phone was visible when he approached because the PCA said he was seen and heard telling them "DTH." I think he was aware she had a phone, but there was no reason to take it if he didn't know he'd been recorded. JMO.

I wonder, too, what caused the recording to end at 43 seconds.

 

[kittythehare]

I am so honestly confused by the popular reception to this brief

The odinism ties were repeatedly made by LE. FBI apparently concluded a likely odinist perpetrator (edit: mid read, that’s not confirmed). These briefs use the state’s discovery. It isn’t a wild theory by the defense, they are not making anything up(even if some interpretations have been specifically made!)

I don’t know if ra is or isn’t involved, there’s not enough information here to be persuaded either way beyond reasonable doubt imo. But why so many are dismissing this brief, which is outright accusing CCSO of shady tactics *with* receipts - their own receipts, because it sounds fantastical or like a conspiracy I just can’t understand. And I am as anti conspiracy theory as they come

Edit: of course I predict the prosecution will have to lean into how fantastical it all sounds to discredit this brief. Which will be interesting because it is their own investigation at play here

Jmo

It's cheap and tawdry.
For one thing , there are billions of symbols in use at any one time.

The symbols are not made of sticks, actually and a rough construction of sticks is likely to match thousands of 'clubs/cults/unicorns/faeries/ angelics/whatevs at any one time.

They appear to only have looked at the Odin people..
I posted a link yesterday to a smallish data base of symbols, I'd been searching it for a configuration bearing a resemblance to what is allegedly in the actual crime scene photographs..
I nearly went blind..

and that is only a single database.. there are thousands.
There are also many that were never recorded because their symbols are considered sacred and secret to the disciple.

But mostly it is because they CHOSE to expose the circumstances of the victims' death in a sensationalist manner and in defence of the man accused of killing them.
That's killing them twice.
Their families must be despairing.

It needs to be formally complained, IMO

 

[Salah11]

The problem I have is even if I ignore the stupidity of this Cult being guilty there is some important questions that need addressing like then not collecting Evidence and going back weeks later like that raises massive questions on the incompetence of LE. If they can get something like that wrong what else did they miss?