IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #166

Status
Not open for further replies.
I don't think the Defense is actually saying BH did this horrible deed. IMO they are speculating that 2 (non-desirable) Odin wannabes did this in order to join the group. BH was the person they needed to please and also, possibly, the person who knew the girls would be on the bridge that day.

Yes, they also mention the subsequent falling out between Holder and Westfall but imo that's just throwing spaghetti at the wall.

BH's Facebook kinda creeps me out with all his SHAVING WITH A STRAIGHT EDGE posts..
Oh, but they DID say it.
They mention his name a whopping 425 times in the document.

And I hope he sues them. I wonder if they can be disbarred? (jmo)

IMG_1850.jpeg
 
A must have been restrained or her hands would be bloody. So either he tied one up, or he murdered L first who was quickly incapacitated. Otherwise one of them would have run off, started screaming etc

I am not convinced either would have been capable of running off if they had just witnessed their friend being murdered in front of them.

I think they would have been absolutely petrified from the moment RA appeared to be staking on them on the bridge. The fact Libby was able to think rationally and take video still astounds me even today when you consider their age and how frightening it would of been to be trapped completely alone with no help in sight.


moo
 
IMO, wouldn't it be possible to determine the height of BG in the video? If it is determined that BG was 5 ft 4 inches (RA's height) then I would think the matter of his guilt would be confirmed. But I think I recall LE saying that the murderer was 5 ft 8. 4 inches in height difference is quite a lot.

Also, has LE got RA on tape saying "Down the hill"? Analysis of his voice and the voice of BG on Libby's video should be strong evidence that RA either is or is not BG. JMO
In one of RA's early booking photos that has the measuring marks on it, RA was around 5 7". @Gardenista found it for me at one time.

Clearly another exaggeration by the Defense IMO.
 
A must have been restrained or her hands would be bloody. So either he tied one up, or he murdered L first who was quickly incapacitated. Otherwise one of them would have run off, started screaming etc
If we believe the document, I think there was mention of crime scene photo of yellow rope tied to a tree.
 
Yes don’t you collect anything from a crime scene so how could they leave behind sticks and twigs it’s just farcical. God knows what else was missed if this was the level of incompetence on display.

The defense are going to have a field day with stuff like this to show the courts they couldn’t even do the simplest of things right so how can anybody trust they have the right man.


MOOO

I disagree.

In reality LE don't take crime scenes away with them. They photograph things and take samples where they think there might be evidence. This happened in the Pistorius case where suddenly the length of an extension cord was a critical piece of evidence in the case. The defence accused the prosecution of losing the extension cord. But of course the police never took it in the first place. They took photos of everything and then surrendered the crime scene like normal.

In this case there could have been evidence all over the place. They do the best they can. I presume sticks weren't thought to be crucial pieces of forensic evidence and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion there was anything important missed here,

The defence just wants to claim that the Odinists DNA was all over these sticks
 
Last edited:
When is the Franks hearing scheduled?

tia
Not yet. Here are some of the pending filings:

08/08/2023Praecipe for Transcript Filed
Praecipe for Transcript
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
08/08/2023Administrative Event
Praecipe for Transcript to Allen County D05 Court Reporter and Felony Judicial Assistant.
09/14/2023Motion Filed
Motion for Broadcasting Order
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
09/14/2023Amended Pleading Filed
Amended Motion to Suppress Fruits of Search of 1967 North Whiteman Drive, Delphi, Indiana
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
09/18/2023Motion for Hearing Filed
Motion for Franks Hearing
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
09/18/2023Motion Filed
Verified Motion for Immediate Transfer of Custody
Filed By: Allen, Richard M.
 
It is what it is.
I honestly doubt the few sticks which may or may not have symbolic meaning in relation to one of millions of cults or groups or antigovs or fundamentalists or general psychos are going to make or break this case.

My mind cannot get past the guy just going full rabid feral and ballistic while killing the children.
Was he drugged or drinking at the time?How come it apparently only happened once, ever, in his lifetime, apparently? Surely he has walked past many girls in lonely places in the intervening years.
Yet- nothing, that we know of?

Was he paranoid and imagined they were laughing at him?
Is that what set him off?
was this an act of rage and only rage is my question?
he came there with purpose (one of the teen witnesses statment ( he was walking with purpose)
he came with a killer kit and god knows what else
he was def semi covered for diguise
that all shows premeditation..only the victims are random
from the nature of this horific crime and the fact .. .. that its very unusual
he is a psychopath with repressed nature..who fantizided about something like this possibly feeding on sick *advertiser censored* and crime shows...that doesnt elminate triggers like drinking or anger at his family and so on
 
If we believe the document, I think there was mention of crime scene photo of yellow rope tied to a tree.
Thanks. I completely missed that. From the memorandum:

66. Another possible explanation as to how Abby had no visible blood on her body or
clothes (other than near the site of the wound) is that the man acting alone had hanged
Abby on a tree stringing her up by her feet.29 This method, consistent with pagan
sacrificial rituals found on Brad Holder’s Facebook page, would allow the blood to drip...

footnote
29 In one crime scene photo, a yellow rope can be viewed. This photo is attached and marked as Exhibit 28 filed as confidential.
 
I disagree.

In reality LE don't take crime scenes away with them. They photograph things and take samples where they think there might be evidence. This happened in the Pistorius case where suddenly the length of an extension cord was a critical piece of evidence in the case. The defence accused the prosecution of losing the extension cord. But of course the police never took it in the first place. They took photos of everything and then surrendered the crime scene like normal.

In this case there could have been evidence all over the place. They do the best they can. I presume sticks weren't through to be crucial pieces of forensic evidence and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion there was anything important missed here,

The defence just wants to claim that the Odinists DNA was all over these sticks
What I'm curious about is that LE did eventually collect the sticks. So they didn't think they were significant at first, but then they were. I'm sure samples were taken initially, so of what value would the sticks have had later?
 
Thanks. I completely missed that. From the memorandum:

66. Another possible explanation as to how Abby had no visible blood on her body or
clothes (other than near the site of the wound) is that the man acting alone had hanged
Abby on a tree stringing her up by her feet.29 This method, consistent with pagan
sacrificial rituals found on Brad Holder’s Facebook page, would allow the blood to drip...

footnote
29 In one crime scene photo, a yellow rope can be viewed. This photo is attached and marked as Exhibit 28 filed as confidential.
Thank you, I couldn't remember the exact context of the rope. So not necessarily tied to a tree, but within the crime scene somewhere.
 
Thanks. I completely missed that. From the memorandum:

66. Another possible explanation as to how Abby had no visible blood on her body or
clothes (other than near the site of the wound) is that the man acting alone had hanged
Abby on a tree stringing her up by her feet.29 This method, consistent with pagan
sacrificial rituals found on Brad Holder’s Facebook page, would allow the blood to drip...

footnote
29 In one crime scene photo, a yellow rope can be viewed. This photo is attached and marked as Exhibit 28 filed as confidential.
I imagine, A would have had her hair, bun or not bun, bloody, if it happened like that? Actually also her face, I would think. Or was an extremely skilled pathologist at work?
 
What I'm curious about is that LE did eventually collect the sticks. So they didn't think they were significant at first, but then they were. I'm sure samples were taken initially, so of what value would the sticks have had later?

Hard to say. But i don't really buy into the idea some critical clues were missed there
 
I disagree.

In reality LE don't take crime scenes away with them. They photograph things and take samples where they think there might be evidence. This happened in the Pistorius case where suddenly the length of an extension cord was a critical piece of evidence in the case. The defence accused the prosecution of losing the extension cord. But of course the police never took it in the first place. They took photos of everything and then surrendered the crime scene like normal.

In this case there could have been evidence all over the place. They do the best they can. I presume sticks weren't thought to be crucial pieces of forensic evidence and I wouldn't jump to the conclusion there was anything important missed here,

The defence just wants to claim that the Odinists DNA was all over these sticks



Well clearly they were important because they went back for that evidence which by then was exposed to all the elements for weeks. So it’s definitely very concerning something like this was over looked IMO
 
Well clearly they were important because they went back for that evidence which by then was exposed to all the elements for weeks. So it’s definitely very concerning something like this was over looked IMO

What I am saying is we shouldn't panic just because the defence claim this

It's obvious to anyone who is a forensic analyst at such a horrific crime scene that these had to be things the killer handled. So i would not assume anything was overlooked just because the defence now claims it was so
 
To me, it doesn't matter at all if the sticks were paced at ransom or symbolically, they could have contained forensic evidence and it was a mistake not to take them, imo. What is worse yet, according to the document, is that LE DID see reason to collect them once the Odinism crap became theorized. So they needed them only if they were symbolic? I don't understand that thinking. They probably collected every piece of trash in the area, in hopes for DNA, but didn't collect the very thing the killer HAD to have touched?

And, like you, I'm very curious about what set this guy off. It's scary!
if there is no dna elsewhere.. he was wearing gloves
do you think the sticks is the problem now...or the missing report and that stupid witness who made us get here by chance
 
if there is no dna elsewhere.. he was wearing gloves
do you think the sticks is the problem now...or the missing report and that stupid witness who made us get here by chance

The main potential issue as pointed out by our lawyers upthread is if Liggett did lie/mislead in the search warrant probable cause affidavit
 
After reading the 136-page defense document, I couldn’t help but be reminded of the deputy who claims he was demoted over the Delphi investigation. Former Chief Thomas said that the crime was unique, and that there are experts out there who have dealt with that sort of thing. He claims that in the very first few weeks of the investigation that he wanted to bring in experts but that there were certain individuals within the command structure that didn’t want to go that way.

Did I miss Thomas being chief?
 
Based on the defense motion info. An argument could be made for two killers. 1 killed each girl. Just based on the difference in wounds and how they were left.
 
what is exactly the point of this( they must have investigated the cult thing )
why? wasnt kak and co a cicrus enough for you ?
you have the man here..and LE got just ONE thing right this whole investigation
they thought the staging was to throw them off
now his defence is completing his work..
 
Based on the defense motion info. An argument could be made for two killers. 1 killed each girl. Just based on the difference in wounds and how they were left.
Maybe there are two killers. I don't think that's the point of the defense motion.

The defense is saying LE flubbed the investigation so bad that the search warrant should be thrown out.

And, they want RA moved to a different facility.

jmo
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
136
Guests online
1,145
Total visitors
1,281

Forum statistics

Threads
586,805
Messages
17,870,153
Members
226,857
Latest member
Leafy
Back
Top