IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #167

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The defense didn’t compile the 85-page report, it wasn’t the defenses’ work.

As two members of the FBI Terrorist Task Force were involved in the completion of this report, if the results pointed toward Odinist involvement I think we can be assured the FBI didn’t just walk away.

Yet the defence refers to this report as if it proves something nefarious was going on behind the scenes. So why not publish it as proof, if it clears RA?

Terrorism, including domestic terrorism (aka cults) is one of the mandates of the FBI and they certainly have authority to file federal charges if evidence is found.

Terrorism Definitions​

International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.
 
As two members of the FBI Terrorist Task Force were involved in the completion of this report, if the results pointed toward Odinist involvement I think we can be assured the FBI didn’t just walk away.

Yet the defence refers to this report as if it proves something nefarious was going on behind the scenes. So why not publish it as proof, if it clears RA?

Terrorism, including domestic terrorism (aka cults) is one of the mandates of the FBI and they certainly have authority to file federal charges if evidence is found.

Terrorism Definitions​

International terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups who are inspired by, or associated with, designated foreign terrorist organizations or nations (state-sponsored).

Domestic terrorism: Violent, criminal acts committed by individuals and/or groups to further ideological goals stemming from domestic influences, such as those of a political, religious, social, racial, or environmental nature.
You’re talking about 2 different reports.

The “Odin Report” was a 12 page report investigating (not necessarily confirming) the “Odinite angle” (quote the defense), specifically compiled by Murphy. The defense is who labeled this 12-page report the “Odin Report” (p. 53, defense memo). IMO this is where the defense plays up the Odinism aspect, when in reality, just as Click said, they were “just doing their job” (I.e., investigating all angles).

The 85-page report was a compilation of reports compiled by Click in 2019. “This 85-page report detailed the investigative work performed by Click, Ferency, Murphy, and others, including the FBI.” (p.6 defense memo).

“Click was so determined to ensure his information was consumed by McLeland, that he directed the information directly to McLeland, via certified e-mail. The letter is stamped ‘Received May 1 2023, Carroll County Prosecutor’……Not only did the prosecution withhold that letter from the Defense, but law enforcement also withheld several other exculpatory pieces of evidence, including an 85-page compilation of reports by Click prepared in 2019 and several videos containing statements that support the Defense theory of RA’s innocence (p.6 defense memo).”
 
You’re talking about 2 different reports.

The “Odin Report” was a 12 page report investigating (not necessarily confirming) the “Odinite angle” (quote the defense), specifically compiled by Murphy. The defense is who labeled this 12-page report the “Odin Report” (p. 53, defense memo). IMO this is where the defense plays up the Odinism aspect, when in reality, just as Click said, they were “just doing their job” (I.e., investigating all angles).

The 85-page report was a compilation of reports compiled by Click in 2019. “This 85-page report detailed the investigative work performed by Click, Ferency, Murphy, and others, including the FBI.” (p.6 defense memo).

“Click was so determined to ensure his information was consumed by McLeland, that he directed the information directly to McLeland, via certified e-mail. The letter is stamped ‘Received May 1 2023, Carroll County Prosecutor’……Not only did the prosecution withhold that letter from the Defense, but law enforcement also withheld several other exculpatory pieces of evidence, including an 85-page compilation of reports by Click prepared in 2019 and several videos containing statements that support the Defense theory of RA’s innocence (p.6 defense memo).”

The 85 page report was completed by Click and the two members of the FBI task force. That’s what you were talking about in your post which I replied to.

Even Click acknowledges Odinists weren’t involved so nothing meets the definition of exculpatory pieces of evidence.

“The defense says investigators ignored the 12-page Odin Report, which details four possible suspects and their role in a pagan religion called Odinism.”

Do you honestly think these arguments will convince a Judge that the connection to Odinism was withheld when the SW was granted?
 
From my understanding Leazenby’s personal opinion was recently, from August 2023. Here is a list of deposition dates I made from the memo (it doesn’t include all/isn’t finished):

Deposed by defense:

Click (April 2023)

ISP Jerry Holeman (deposed between April-Aug 28 2023)

Carrol Co. Sheriff Liggett (deposed 8/8/2023)

Carrol Co. Chief Dep Sheriff - Leazenby (deposed 8/9/2023)

So that’s your understanding from not reading the actual deposition and relying on the defense’s opinion of what he said.
Also, he may have been deposed in August 2023 but he may have been talking about 2019.
 
What the defense is arguing the prosecution lied about is a report that Todd Click sent to the prosecution in May. He was concerned that the PCA didn’t mention any of the investigation that he, Murphy, and Ferency (FBI, deceased) had put together and so sent a report directly to the prosecutor. Remember that the CCSO kicked the FBI off of the case in 2021.

The report mentioned their investigation of the Odinist symbols and the names mentioned in the defense’s memorandum. The prosecutor did not provide it as evidence to the defense and then lied under oath about having it in his possession.

LE is not required to detail every path their investigation went down before they focused on RA. The search warrant is not a summary of the entire investigation, it only contains information pertinent to the person LE is requesting a search warrant on.
 
You’re talking about 2 different reports.

The “Odin Report” was a 12 page report investigating (not necessarily confirming) the “Odinite angle” (quote the defense), specifically compiled by Murphy. The defense is who labeled this 12-page report the “Odin Report” (p. 53, defense memo). IMO this is where the defense plays up the Odinism aspect, when in reality, just as Click said, they were “just doing their job” (I.e., investigating all angles).

The 85-page report was a compilation of reports compiled by Click in 2019. “This 85-page report detailed the investigative work performed by Click, Ferency, Murphy, and others, including the FBI.” (p.6 defense memo).

“Click was so determined to ensure his information was consumed by McLeland, that he directed the information directly to McLeland, via certified e-mail. The letter is stamped ‘Received May 1 2023, Carroll County Prosecutor’……Not only did the prosecution withhold that letter from the Defense, but law enforcement also withheld several other exculpatory pieces of evidence, including an 85-page compilation of reports by Click prepared in 2019 and several videos containing statements that support the Defense theory of RA’s innocence (p.6 defense memo).”
Who says the 85 page report was accurate or even merely their interpretation? Click on the recent MS podcast said he and those guys weren't doing anything extraordinary and shouldn't be put on a pedestal IIRC.

This could have been their working theory at that time and then sometime before October when LE asked RA to come into the office for an interview, something (or someone) changed their mind. They talked to RA and afterward were granted SW's for his home and vehicles.

MOO
 
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The "antlers" part does seem kind of silly, and for the D to point to that as meaning the killing was sacrificial then seems silly (and therefore disrespectful), as well. IMO.

What I would like to know, however, is whether or not LE thinks the killer purposefully placed sticks on or around A's head (rather than them just getting caught in her hair during the attack). We can't make that determination because we haven't seen the CS photos or heard from LE on the matter. We know the CS was odd, and placing sticks around the victim's head definitely would be odd, IMO. But what makes EF's comment so striking to me is that it refers to sticks around her head at all. Him, with his 7 year old mental capacity, might see antlers where an adult mind would not. Someone who practices Odinism might see antlers where a Christian would not. IMO, none of it matters other than whether or not the killer intentionally placed sticks around his victim's head, and then how would EF (or whoever was coaching him) know about that? JMO.
That’s the thing. How DID EF know about the sticks at all? Regardless of placed intentionally or not - how did he conclude and tell people they were placed as antlers? He placed them or someone told him this (perhaps told him in line with his desire to be an Odinist?).
 
What might be interesting to see is what the report from the medical examiner at the scene says. How did they interpret what they saw?
If they had no info on possible Odinism involved, they probably only saw sticks and branches.

If the branches were in their natural shape/condition, a symbol might go un-noticed. If they were all cleaned of their little branches and leaves, that would an oddity, IMO. A freshly cut branch would be another red flag. The drawing of the branches on the body is at 12:03 mm in the link below. That's the one that included the interview with BMcD.

That symbol in blood on the tree is another story, IMO. I would not guess that was blood splatter; it looks intentional. That's at the 12:49 mm/

 
That’s the thing. How DID EF know about the sticks at all? Regardless of placed intentionally or not - how did he conclude and tell people they were placed as antlers? He placed them or someone told him this (perhaps told him in line with his desire to be an Odinist?).

I’d be absolutely shocked if EF wasn’t questioned further after making that statement after it was reported. Notice how the defence positioned it as a leading statement and then chose not to share anything further as if nobody bothered asking him any further questions about it at all? I don’t think anyone believes LE did not follow it up. More than likely his responses are what cleared him of involvement but the defence certainly isn’t going to tell us, spoiling the drama. JMO
 
I am still reading. A few questions:

Were any eyewitness given a line up that included RA and other people who looked similar to RA? (p. 110-113)

RA’s wife stated he had “guns and knives”. It appears numerous knives were collected, did he have more than one gun? If so, would they typically only retrieve one of the guns in his possession?

Did they get a warrant for RA’s phone since they said they believed he was on his phone on the bridge per eye witnesses? (p. 115)

Did they only find a total of (19) .40 cal bullets (9 in one mag, 8 in another mag, one in a keepsake box, and one in the chamber of the gun)? (p. 116)
How likely would it be for him to still have / still be using the same phone from Feb 2017?
 
Who says the 85 page report was accurate or even merely their interpretation? Click on the recent MS podcast said he and those guys weren't doing anything extraordinary and shouldn't be put on a pedestal IIRC.

This could have been their working theory at that time and then sometime before October when LE asked RA to come into the office for an interview, something (or someone) changed their mind. They talked to RA and afterward were granted SW's for his home and vehicles.

MOO
In the linked MS podcast, they discuss some further discussion they had with Click. It starts at the beginning with some Q & A.

he's in agreement with D on who is responsible,
D's discussion of the evidence against their suspects was fairly accurate
he fully supports cameras in the courtroom for transparency purposes.
KG says Click "is clearly saying what the defense wrote is pretty accurate."

IMO "pretty" accurate leaves room for the D's sensationalizing.

 
Who says the 85 page report was accurate or even merely their interpretation? Click on the recent MS podcast said he and those guys weren't doing anything extraordinary and shouldn't be put on a pedestal IIRC.

This could have been their working theory at that time and then sometime before October when LE asked RA to come into the office for an interview, something (or someone) changed their mind. They talked to RA and afterward were granted SW's for his home and vehicles.

MOO
I never said it was or wasn’t accurate, I have no opinion either way at this point. I was only differentiating between the 2 different reports, and how no one in LE named it the “Odin Report”, that was the defense. I do think there are potential issues to consider not relating to the cult theory of the defense.

Re: time of investigative theories, the only thing I know is what Click said in his follow up interview within the last week:

MS: Some people have suggested that while you disagree with the defense that this was a ritual murder that you have agreement with them on who is responsible. Is that something you can speak to?

Click: Yes, that is accurate.

MS: Other than the material about the cult angle can you discuss how good a job the defense did at discussing the evidence against their suspects?

Click: It would be impossible for me to explain anything further without revealing details of the investigation. But it is fairly accurate.

JMO at the least there is disagreement between LE about suspects. This doesn’t make one or the other correct or incorrect. We don’t know at this point. MOO
 
The 85 page report was completed by Click and the two members of the FBI task force. That’s what you were talking about in your post which I replied to.

Even Click acknowledges Odinists weren’t involved so nothing meets the definition of exculpatory pieces of evidence.

“The defense says investigators ignored the 12-page Odin Report, which details four possible suspects and their role in a pagan religion called Odinism.”

Do you honestly think these arguments will convince a Judge that the connection to Odinism was withheld when the SW was granted?
No I think Odinism is irrelevant to SW issues, that’s why I was distinguishing the two reports. Apologies for the confusion.
 
I never said it was or wasn’t accurate, I have no opinion either way at this point. I was only differentiating between the 2 different reports, and how no one in LE named it the “Odin Report”, that was the defense. I do think there are potential issues to consider not relating to the cult theory of the defense.

Re: time of investigative theories, the only thing I know is what Click said in his follow up interview within the last week:

MS: Some people have suggested that while you disagree with the defense that this was a ritual murder that you have agreement with them on who is responsible. Is that something you can speak to?

Click: Yes, that is accurate.

MS: Other than the material about the cult angle can you discuss how good a job the defense did at discussing the evidence against their suspects?

Click: It would be impossible for me to explain anything further without revealing details of the investigation. But it is fairly accurate.

JMO at the least there is disagreement between LE about suspects. This doesn’t make one or the other correct or incorrect. We don’t know at this point. MOO

Click retired in 2021 and was employed with Rushville PD. As he was never a member of the Task Force investigating the murders of Libby and Abby so he wouldn’t have had access to investigative information, least of all current info. Not all LE are equal. So if that’s the best shot the defence has to discredit the integrity of the Oct/22 SW, they haven’t got much IMO.
 
How likely would it be for him to still have / still be using the same phone from Feb 2017?
Not very likely. I’m not sure how long phone companies hold data, but usually you can request it. If RA is the perp and kept his phone from that time he would be an idiot. There were also multiple phones collected from RA’s residence. What was on these phones? Were they his phones that were collected or a family members?
 
Then I guess those didn't belong to RA so now have to wonder, what was his role in all of this????


IMO ONLY.... his (RA's) only part in this crime was being used by others to get the girls down that hill. I am not convinced he knew much from that point on. Like I said, it's JMO with zero facts to back it up. ;)
 
Seems to me at one time LE believed a second person might’ve been involved, but no evidence was found connecting to other persons, so then the conclusion was reached that RA must’ve acted alone. That’s not lying, that’s an example of an investigation progressing.

My opinion.
<Snipped by me for focus>
Yes!

The weirdest thing seems to be happening more and more lately. The tendency for people to point to any and all dead end LE leads as evidence of reasonable doubt.

That’s not reasonable doubt…that’s just investigating.
 
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