IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

[MassGuy]

I believe that if anyone does a deep dive, with 100's of pages on a murder investigation----going into ALL the details of every witness ever spoken to, every POI ever looked at, every theory ever considered, one can make a heavily footnoted timeline, which would seem to make the investigation look scattered and wonky.

Because big investigations into high profile multiple murders are always going to be scattered and wonky because there are dozens of officers, investigators, detectives, agents, forensics examiners, State Police, doing their own interviews and mini investigations. They are also looking at several theories simultaneously.

Witnesses are not all going to describe the same things the same way. LE just has to zone in on the ones that are more credible and that are corroborated by other witnesses and other evidence.

Throwing in a dissenting description by a witness does not necessarily outweigh or negate the final consensus that detectives came to. JMO

Absolutely. Witness descriptions have put untold people in jail. This jackass put himself there, and his gun did too. Game. Set. Match.

 

[zh0r4]

I think she said she didn't finish reading it. JMO

Correct, which means she hasn’t read it. JMO. Below is a ss of her exact words sourced in official docs.

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171'
IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

 

[katydid23]

Correct, which means she hasn’t read it. JMO. Below is a ss of her exact words sourced in official docs.

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171'
IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

If I was the judge on this case, I probably wouldn't have finished reading that whole thing either. JMO

I think she knows most of that won't ever be admitted into evidence. JMO

 

[Betty P]

Correct, which means she hasn’t read it. JMO. Below is a ss of her exact words sourced in official docs.

Post in thread 'IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171'
IN - Abby & Libby - The Delphi Murders - Richard Allen Arrested - #171

Did she need to at that point in time?

Is the judge on trial here? I’m not sure how attacking the judge is going to help the admitted child killer. He has a new defense team coming on board, right? Perhaps they will take a different approach. Picking fights with the judge on a daily basis hasn‘t worked out well thus far.

It may not help when it’s time to appeal a guilty verdict.

 

[girlhasnoname]

My understanding is that it's based on IN sentencing guidelines. I'm also very curious whether they have the option to add charges or to ask for the DP/LWOP later.
“It’s not a death penalty case or an LWOP (life without parole) case, it’s just a double homicide which we do routinely, unfortunately, here in Allen County. The only impact it will have is the travel time to another county,” Lebrato said Thursday just after the quarterly public defender board meeting held at the Rousseau Centre.

Allen County’s chief public defender says his office is prepared to take on Delphi killings case

Allen County Chief Public Defender William “Billy” Lebrato doesn’t believe the trial will impact the daily work of the department.

www.wane.com

Here is a site with info on when they can add LWOP or DP in IN

Aggravating Circumstances in Indiana Criminal Cases

Learn how aggravating circumstances affect criminal cases, then call Keffer Hirschauer to get a leading Indianapolis defense lawyer on your case.

www.indyjustice.com

Murder is a higher-level charge with more serious potential penalties than any level of felony in Indiana. When the prosecution can prove at least one aggravating circumstance exists, it can request the jury or judge to consider a sentence of life in prison without parole or death. Indiana Code § 35-50-2-9 specifies the conditions that qualify as aggravating circumstances in Indiana murder cases:

• Intentional murder in the course of committing arson, burglary, child molestation, criminal deviate conduct, kidnapping, rape, robbery, carjacking, organized crime, dealing cocaine or other narcotics, or in criminal confinement
• Detonation of an explosive with the intent to cause injury or damages and resulting in death
• Lying in wait to commit murder
• Hiring or being hired to kill another person
• Murder of an officer or others working in an official capacity while the individual is on duty or in retribution for an action performed in the course of duty
• A previous conviction for murder
• Commission of a previous murder, even if not convicted
• Murder committed while in custody, on probation, or on parole
• Murder with dismemberment of the victim
• Mutilation, torture, decapitation, or burning of the victim while still alive
• Murder of a victim under the age of 12
• Murder involving Level 6, 5, 4, or 3 felony battery, kidnapping, criminal confinement, or sexual abuse of the victim
• Murder of a witness against the defendant to prevent testimony
• Murder that results from intentionally firing a weapon into a dwelling or from a vehicle
• Murder of a pregnant victim with intention to kill a viable fetus
• Murder committed on the grounds of an educational institution
• Murder committed in a place of worship

To seek a sentence of life without parole or death in Indiana murder cases, the prosecution must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that at least one aggravating circumstance exists or existed at the time of the crime and that the mitigating factors do not outweigh the aggravating factors in the case.

I see a few listed here that qualifies for LWOP or Death, although I think the State will probably seek LWOP.

JMO

 

[girlhasnoname]

IMO LE and others would immediately come forward if these depositions (which were documented via recordings btw) were falsified. Especially CC and ISP LE. Wouldn’t you?

Either way. Holeman and the “Unified Command” (ironic name IMO, for a group that kicks everyone out that doesn’t follow the narrative of their group), lied about (1) The professor saying the murders weren’t ritualistic, which was their alleged reason they stopped looking at multiple perps AND (2) that they didn’t have his name and couldn’t find him.

This is a fact. As the professor surfaced after the release of the Franks memo, AND said the opposite of what the “Unified Command” said he did.

<snip>
bbm

“Holeman says he allegedly said he was working to set up the interview with Turco for several weeks, despite defense claims that it would have coincided with the same time that the prosecution claimed they could not identify Turco.

The defense says there is a taped statement from Turco saying that “it was a given” that the pattern of sticks found at the crime scene was someone trying to replicate Germanic runic script.

Turco went on to bring in outside counsel from Harvard University who agreed with the deduction. Turco went on to say that, he ”could certainly imagine that this was somebody’s idea that when you do human sacrifice you carve runes ... there are some poetic sources that would sort of support that idea that somebody might have come across ... that scenario seems entirely plausible to me.”

Article: MSN

JMO there is more evidence the former Defense was telling the truth than there is they were lying.

As someone who is pro-LE, I’m a bit flabbergasted at the lack of offense at potentially corrupt LE.

MOO

RBBM

Who says that LE hasn't come forward to refute the Defense's interpretation/slant of the evidence? We wouldn't know that due to the gag order.

Turco can say anything, in his opinion, but again, I bet the State has their own expert witnesses who will testify that this was not a ritualistic killing, probably someone trying to stage the scene to look like one.

That's the whole point of the D's dirty Hail Mary memo in support of Franks. They desperately wanted to get this information out to the public against the gag order. Look at all the damage that has been done because of it. They played dirty and it blew up on them as it should have.

I don't believe that the local LE, ISP, FBI and others conspired against poor 'Rick' to make him a scapegoat. It makes no sense and when you consider the fact that he self admitted to being on the trails/bridge that day, at that time, wearing those clothes, having a weapon matching the ejected unspent bullet found at the scene, self admitted confessions to the crime not once, but 5 times to his wife and mother on a recorded phone line, and who knows what else from the SW's that we don't know, I am flabbergasted at the lack of offense of a potential child murderer.

MOO

 

[girlhasnoname]

Again though, we don't know that the leak had anything to do with the suicide! We have no idea what his mental health history may have been, whether or not he had prior suicidal ideation or attempts. We don't know if he had gotten drunk or high that day, or what else may have preceded his decision to kill himself. It probably didn't help him to know he was in possession of whatever he received in the leak, or to be questioned by police - but to think that the *only* reason he killed himself was because of the leak and his role in it, may be myopic.

He was named and being investigated for receiving/forwarding along stolen case sensitive information (CSAM material of nude murdered children), which could bring serious charges punishable by law. Not to mention his military career and family and friends reactions to these allegations.

LE visited him one day, and he killed himself the next, too coincidental to me not myopic.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

I am flabbergasted at the lack of offense of potential child murderer.

MOO

RSBM.

A potential child murderer who in all likelihood committed sexually motivated homicide. There are no circumstances where that kind offender should be waiting out the pretrial period in the community, and yet that's what some people think should be happening. That baffles me. The risk both from and to such a person makes that impossible to justify, IMO.

MOO

 

[FrostedGlass]

Absolutely. Witness descriptions have put untold people in jail. This jackass put himself there, and his gun did too. Game. Set. Match.

Good to see you here again.
We can't be sure it was his gun until we see the chain of custody for the cartridge. IMO So far, all they have turned up are 3 pics of it in the ground.

Maybe since all discovery was returned to NMcL, he can locate that document as well as the pictures.

 

[girlhasnoname]

It makes them sound like defense attorneys who know how to make everyone look "over there" instead of at their client. It's sure working here on these threads.

Maybe for some, but not me. I believe RA is guilty based on the evidence we know of as of today. I feel at trial we will be receiving a lot more that will prove BARD that RA did in fact murder Abby & Libby, just like he has confessed to doing 5 times to his own wife and mother on a recorded phone line.

The Defense side show Memorandum was a last ditch effort to get highly sensationalized info. leaked out to the public around the gag order. It was beyond unprofessional and deeply exploitative of Abby & Libby's death. Gross misconduct putting it mildly IMO.

All JMO

 

[DeDee]

What does this have to do with anything? A LE agent is tragically shot and killed outside his work pkace and just because, he may among other things, investigated Odinism this tragedy has what to do with Delphi case right now? I'm confused

It is not a "may" have investigated the Odin Theory. FBI Agent Ferency did investigate the Odin angle.

What if I were to tell you that the alleged killer of FBI Agent Ferency retired from working at the US Penitentiary, Terre Haute, a high-security Fed prison, because he did?

Interesting, although not pertinent, what if I were to tell you that, ironically, the alleged killer has an uncanny resemblance of BH because he does?

What if I were to tell you that FBI Agent Greg Ferency is not the only targeted death of those involved in this horrific case because he's not?

 

[girlhasnoname]

It is not a "may" have investigated the Odin Theory. FBI Agent Ferency did investigate the Odin angle.

What if I were to tell you that the alleged killer of FBI Agent Ferency retired from working at the US Penitentiary, Terre Haute, a high-security Fed prison, because he did?

Interesting, although not pertinent, what if I were to tell you that, ironically, the alleged killer has an uncanny resemblance of BH because he does?

What if I were to tell you that FBI Agent Greg Ferency is not the only targeted death of those involved in this horrific case because he's not?

Wow, is this actually verified information out in MSM? I haven't seen or heard anything tying it all to this case? I don't follow FB or social media in my defense.

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

It is not a "may" have investigated the Odin Theory. FBI Agent Ferency did investigate the Odin angle.

What if I were to tell you that the alleged killer of FBI Agent Ferency retired from working at the US Penitentiary, Terre Haute, a high-security Fed prison, because he did?

Interesting, although not pertinent, what if I were to tell you that, ironically, the alleged killer has an uncanny resemblance of BH because he does?

What if I were to tell you that FBI Agent Greg Ferency is not the only targeted death of those involved in this horrific case because he's not?

Very remarkable, it seems, my goodness!

 

[mrjitty]

Sorry, I missed something-“this is why you don’t do this”. Do what? TIA

Proof Judge Gull (THE COURT) hasn’t read the Franks memo as of 10/31 transcript from court:
View attachment 459831

Source:

Indiana Courts Case Search - MyCase

Indiana Supreme Court, Public Access

public.courts.in.gov

Right - like I said, she hasn't finished reading it because she has to also read all the cross referenced documents and interviews - 100s of pages of stuff if not 1000s, mostly irrelevant. Nowhere does she say "she hasn't even read it". That would be absurd. Part of her reason for removing the defence Attorneys was that they authored that monstrosity.

That is why competent counsel makes a tight motion and only references the specific content relevant to the facts at issue in a Franks motion. These are quite tight. e.g. did an deponent misstate the evidence in the Search Warrant Affidavit compared to his depo. You don't need 100s of pages for this.

i.e. "that is why you don't do this"

 

[girlhasnoname]

Right - like I said, she hasn't finished reading it because she has to also read all the cross referenced documents and interviews - 100s of pages of stuff if not 1000s, mostly irrelevant. Nowhere does she say "she hasn't even read it"

That is why competent counsel makes a tight motion and only references the specific content relevant to the facts at issue in a Franks motion. These are quite tight. e.g. did an deponent misstate the evidence in the Search Warrant Affidavit compared to his depo. You don't need 100s of pages for this.

i.e. "that is why you don't do this"

Agree, that 136 page document should have been 36 at the most IMO. The rest, extraneous, sensationalized information based on how they interpreted it, used to create public discord and outrage. "Look over there at bad, corrupt, conspiracy laden LE, not at our poor little Rick".

It also made me lol that Hennessy called it a work of art. Huh?

MOO

 

[FromGermany1]

I think she said she didn't finish reading it. JMO

Isn't it her, the Judge's, duty to read all documents, interesting for her or rather boring? I would have thought so.

 

[katydid23]

Isn't it her duty to read all documents, interesting for her or rather boring? I would have thought so.

Usually, but this particular one was chock full of unverified, irrelevant hear say which was never going to be admitted as evidence. It was just pumped into that motion to create some drama to get major publicity, in spite of the gag order she had set up.

 

[Ward Thisperer]

Right - like I said, she hasn't finished reading it because she has to also read all the cross referenced documents and interviews - 100s of pages of stuff if not 1000s, mostly irrelevant. Nowhere does she say "she hasn't even read it". That would be absurd. Part of her reason for removing the defence Attorneys was that they authored that monstrosity.

That is why competent counsel makes a tight motion and only references the specific content relevant to the facts at issue in a Franks motion. These are quite tight. e.g. did an deponent misstate the evidence in the Search Warrant Affidavit compared to his depo. You don't need 100s of pages for this.

i.e. "that is why you don't do this"

bbm- all she has gone on record with is denying that the FM was part of her reason for removing them, in the 10/31 transcript.

 

[mrjitty]

As to whether the prosecution has gone on record refuting the Frank's memo it's important to remember that the prosecution can only respond to the application made. So they did counter some of the allegations, and of course we'd actually need the hearing to dig into it.

As for the other 100 pages, these didn't relate to any obvious application/motion that the defence was asking the Court to rule on, so how would the state respond to them?

What I would expect to happen is a defended evidential hearing to rule what of that stuff is actually admissible at trial - because quite a lot of it obviously isn't.

 

[mrjitty]

bbm- all she has gone on record with is denying that the FM was part of her reason for removing them, in the 10/31 transcript.
View attachment 459893

So the defence made that up then?

Because IIRC it was in Rozzi's application