Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #100

[krkrjx]

MOO, but still think that BG showed up to "help" w/the search the night that A&L were missing. Doing a very "community" thing like helping out with something like that...fits the profile of a people-person type individual, seen as helping (great cover so no one suspects anything other than "what a helpful, thoughtful person"); scary. MOO

It could be that the perp showed up to help search because he is someone who would be expected to be there. IOW, it would raise suspicion if he did not participate in the search.

I think when perps participate in any way in searches, etc., it is out of curiosity to know what is found and also to make themselves look innocent. And it is possible Abby and Libby's killer did just that. ("You want to know what we know.") Or, he could have participated because his absence would have been noticed. Josh Phillips participated in the search for Maddie because he was her neighbor and friend and it would have looked odd if he had not participated.

 

[mtnlites]

mtnlites, I'm sorrier than I can express for your loss. I meant not to downplay anyone else's tragedy of losing their beautiful child, their heart. You are indeed right, any loss of a child is horrific no matter the circumstances. If what I said caused you additional pain in anyway, please forgive me.

Aw, thanks dude. I didn't mean to sound snippy in mine, so I apologize if I came across that way.

 

[Brubon]

Just met a 19 year old freshman finishing his first year of college at a school 50 miles or less from Delphi. Asked him if he knows about the case. Nope.

When I was 19 man landed on the moon. I was a full time college student working 2 jobs to put myself through school. I had no time to worry about current events. LOL
Perhaps the boy you met is extremely busy too. Now that I'm retired I have lots of time for keeping up with "the world."
MOO
Praying for peace for Abby and Libby.

 

[mtnlites]

It turns out it didn’t matter.

Law enforcement called off the formal search, because the last thing they wanted was to lose more people in the woods.

They thought they were searching for missing girls, and the potential was there that they would have found their way out, or had already done so.

They had to take the safety of the public into account.

This is standard practice.

Not only was public safety a concern, but what would it have been like to have all those people walking around and potentially disturbing the crime scene? Even with hindsight 20/20, I'm glad they called it off. Searchers would've been almost right on top of the girls if they'd continued on and the defense would've had a field day with any evidence that was recovered.

If my kids disappeared from that particular park I would not automatically assume they were dead. If after walking around and calling out for them for several hours didn't work then I'd first assume that they were no longer at the park. I'd think maybe they caught a ride with a friend and the phone died, there was an accident and someone took them to a hospital and our wires were crossed, etc. My instinct would not be that they were both dead right there where we stood. The park isn't that big. With as many people as they had out that night, if the girls had been there but were hurt or hiding or whatever, they'd have heard the searchers. When they didn't emerge, I would have thought of other scenarios first. And that's kind of what happened here. Nobody expected to find them the way they did.

What's interesting, too, is that it's complete strangers who have no real ties to the case or to the girls who have been criticizing LE over this. The girls' families have not.

 

[peel]

also, if a purported searcher got to the death scene, his dna would be there.....perfect excuse.

I think the cops are looking inward towards not only themselves, but others involved..

 

[curiousgene]

Very valid, grounded thoughts. IMO. I'm also not convinced he was necessarily out to kill that day.

I'm a map person, and I feel there could be a lot of answers on the map. But I can get carried away, too.

Do not how to put two quotes in one. Hoped it worked. I do agree with the thought that this guy was extremely upset/agitated with a situation happening in his life and was perhaps at the trail trying to cool off. Seeing two young girls happy and simply enjoying their carefree life must have added more fuel to his rage. He found the perfect opportunity when he saw the girls walking on the bridge and he knew he could corner them.I do think that the reason for his rage/situation had something to do with a women. It is very likely he was going through a separation,parent-child custody visitation situation. MOO.

Hope this case gets solved soon and we have an arrest in the coming days.

 

[krkrjx]

I just watched Extremely Wicked... and found the focus on Bundy's girlfriend's denial interesting, although she apparently called his name in to the cops after the two girls went missing from Lake Sammamish. Despite denial, she still called his name in based on the sketch. Don't know if that was factual or theatrical.

If I recall correctly, the girlfriend called it in after the description of the car was released but did it mostly to be assured it was all just coincidence. I read about her denial and eventually making the call in an article about Ann Rule. Rule had interviewed the girlfriend while preparing to write her book about Bundy.

The girlfriend's denial that apparently continued even after she called in about the car is important because it shows a very common aspect of human nature. It is difficult and sometimes nearly impossible to accept that someone close to you can be capable of horrific deeds. Sometimes people know, but at the same time believe they have to be crazy for even thinking it. Something similar could be happening with someone close to the perp in this case.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

A few thoughts I would like to get off my chest

1. The girls were not found the first night because they were at a secondary location.

I think the girls were murdered within minutes after the video ended (20-40 mins). How could the search missed them? They were looking for girls who were missing, not dead. I imagine there was a lot of yelling there names and listening for them to answer back. I would also imagine people looking might think"there is no way they would go down there" and not consider they went down the hill and across the stream.

2. LE has reason to believe the killer was able to move around on that day. Want to know if the car was noticed

I think the POI must have made it to a gathering or meeting later that day. Perhaps a meeting with peers/family or a meeting for youth.

3. LE may have already spoke to someone who knows.

I think the POI family is well regarded in the community and either has blinders that there Son/Brother/Nephew could do something like this or is straight up covering for him. They think that he is sorry and would never do something like this again. Perhaps redemption through religion. Something like this coming to light could decimate the entire family and thus they ignore or hide what happened.


MOO on this, but wonder if anyone else has thought down this line?

I have thought of a scenario similar to some of your points. I also wondered if maybe the POI has a sick relative who would be devastated by the news. That could be holding someone back from speaking out about what they know. Or it could be keeping suspicions at bay in the minds of family members.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

Maybe they need to focus on the individual who provided that tip? I mean seriously, there was enough info given to get a judge to sign off on a SW.

Also want to add that although this could have been someone just scouting out victims that day randomly, I still cannot rule out that he knew the girls were headed there through some means, whether family association, the girls posting where they were going, family member telling someone where they were going. It's incredible how innocent/casual comments can lead to revealing exactly what the killer needed to execute his demented plan. I am by no means implicating family just the possibility of someone who knows someone who is close to the family. That's all it takes. JMO

Or even just a very twisted mind stumbling upon the info on social media, someone overhearing a speaker-phone conversation, and on and on. My heart goes out to anyone raising a tween, teen, and some young adults. ...they are so innocent, and some people in this world are so messed up. It's frightening. It really is. Thinking of those 2 precious girls tonight. My heart is heavy. May justice soon prevail.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

OT (but actually very related to the A&L case with this thread), but BC (Urbana, IL case of June, 2017; here on WS, but not sure how to link to it) *did* indeed show up at a vigil(?) for the victim. He shows up in pix mixed right in with the crowd.

MOO, but still think that BG showed up to "help" w/the search the night that A&L were missing. Doing a very "community" thing like helping out with something like that...fits the profile of a people-person type individual, seen as helping (great cover so no one suspects anything other than "what a helpful, thoughtful person"); scary. MOO

Here in the UK, the murderer of two little girls (Ian Huntley) set out chairs for the presser and offered his condolences there to one of the little girl's father. It definitely happens.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

I'm confused by in the video, the 70 subpoenas being issued only a month or so after the murders. Search warrants I get but the subpoenas, aren't they an order to appear and testify in a court?

Are subpoenas issued also for depositions?

 

[sunshineray]

Aw, thanks dude. I didn't mean to sound snippy in mine, so I apologize if I came across that way.

You did not sound snippy at all, just hurting. And it's dudette.

 

[sunshineray]

Are subpoenas issued also for depositions?

I honestly don't know, I thought they were just to summon someone to court. I thought all other requests for records and such were warrants.

 

[abstr]

I have to tap out. Nothing new and the speculation (which I have done) is just too much. I will check back and will pray but I can’t

 

[sunshineray]

Absolutely zero doubt in my mind


ETA
I doubt he’s murdered previously, I think he’s probably stalked etc.

But I still am thinking this was probably his first murder

Jmo

I also feel he went out that day to that area with possibly assault but definitely murder on his mind. Taking two victims though sounds awful brash for the first time. I tend to lean towards that he'd killed before. JMO

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Here in the UK, the murderer of two little girls (Ian Huntley) set out chairs for the presser and offered his condolences there to one of the little girl's father. It definitely happens.

 

[SpanishMossAntiques]

After seeing the area where they were murdered, the suspect must have had an intimate geographical knowledge of the area, and, it seems like he planned it well - as if he knew they were going to be there, and he had planned their murder. I can't help but to think, 1. The suspect is someone who is happily acquainted with the family which is why the girls complied with him (I don't think they knew they were going to be hurt at all), and, 2. I think this guy has definitely killed before - maybe even a few times. I mean, he was able to exercise power over 2 young girls very quickly and presumably easily (the route from the bridge to the area where they were killed is a ways down the only part of that hill that's not really steep - then down various paths until you get to the farmer's property). Why net to the farmer's field???

 

[MDATCA]

It turns out it didn’t matter.

Law enforcement called off the formal search, because the last thing they wanted was to lose more people in the woods.

They thought they were searching for missing girls, and the potential was there that they would have found their way out, or had already done so.

They had to take the safety of the public into account.

This is standard practice.

I keep thinking back to the Elizabeth Olten case and it took AB leading to her. It was not far from her house if I remember correctly. It was in a wooded area and she had dug 2 shallow graves and searchers had been by there a couple times already. I think they had been looking a few days by that time. They even had the benefit of the cell phone pinging for a while so had an area to search for at least her phone.

 

[MDATCA]

It could be that the perp showed up to help search because he is someone who would be expected to be there. IOW, it would raise suspicion if he did not participate in the search.

I think when perps participate in any way in searches, etc., it is out of curiosity to know what is found and also to make themselves look innocent. And it is possible Abby and Libby's killer did just that. ("You want to know what we know.") Or, he could have participated because his absence would have been noticed. Josh Phillips participated in the search for Maddie because he was her neighbor and friend and it would have looked odd if he had not participated.

Exactly. In a small town of just over 3000 I would expect just about every able bodied adult to be helping in some capacity. Whether it be actually searching or supporting the searchers or family.

Editing to add: IMO it would have seemed odd to people who know him if in fact he was familiar with the area and others knew he was.

 

[Me123]

Here in the UK, the murderer of two little girls (Ian Huntley) set out chairs for the presser and offered his condolences there to one of the little girl's father. It definitely happens.

And his girlfriend Maxine Carr covered for him and provided an alibi!