Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #103

[Nerissa]

Utter newbie here: but just read an article from April this year & it states that 'it is unclear' how the girls died. HUH?!?
They don't know 'how'..... may I ask, How is that?!
Can anyone fill me in on this please.....TIA for humoring a newbie

 

[MassGuy]

Utter newbie here: but just read an article from April this year & it states that 'it is unclear' how the girls died. HUH?!?
They don't know 'how'..... may I ask, How is that?!
Can anyone fill me in on this please.....TIA for humoring a newbie

It is unclear to the public how they died.

Law enforcement absolutely knows the cause of death, but they haven’t revealed it.

 

[CCJD]

Utter newbie here: but just read an article from April this year & it states that 'it is unclear' how the girls died. HUH?!?
They don't know 'how'..... may I ask, How is that?!
Can anyone fill me in on this please.....TIA for humoring a newbie

Do you have a link to that article?

 

[anotherjenny]

IMO: It seems unlikely that the killer would stop to give a stranger a ride.

Again, what kind of person would pick up a hitchiker? Would you?

 

[IceyIllusion]

Utter newbie here: but just read an article from April this year & it states that 'it is unclear' how the girls died. HUH?!?
They don't know 'how'..... may I ask, How is that?!
Can anyone fill me in on this please.....TIA for humoring a newbie

LE knows how they died but not releasing the details so they can use that in the prosecution and possibly to weed out false confessions.

 

[Nerissa]

Thanks MassGuy....very interesting.....not sure I want to dive into this case: sure be another rabbit hole, already so many questions.....main thing: how do we know this guy wasn't an internet stalker that they were meeting there? So odd next day was Valentine's day: the day they are found dead (not to be too conspiracy here, I actually abhor that nonsense: but when I just did a search on Abigail Williams: it was all about the original gal involved with the Salem witch trials...surely no connection or weirdness, but there was ZERO about this case...)
Keeping their cause of death a secret tends to make me think it's unique.....stab wounds, gun shot, even strangulation, how many ways could they have died - why not just admit that's how they died, one of these options, unless there is something hinky & unique about it...hmmm....

 

[Nerissa]

Thanks too IceyIllusion - just saw your post....very odd IMO to keep it under wraps...

 

[MassGuy]

Thanks MassGuy....very interesting.....not sure I want to dive into this case: sure be another rabbit hole, already so many questions.....main thing: how do we know this guy wasn't an internet stalker that they were meeting there? So odd next day was Valentine's day: the day they are found dead (not to be too conspiracy here, I actually abhor that nonsense: but when I just did a search on Abigail Williams: it was all about the original gal involved with the Salem witch trials...surely no connection or weirdness, but there was ZERO about this case...)
Keeping their cause of death a secret tends to make me think it's unique.....stab wounds, gun shot, even strangulation, how many ways could they have died - why not just admit that's how they died, one of these options, unless there is something hinky & unique about it...hmmm....

I think that one thing makes the internet stalker thing unlikely:

The amount of time that has passed.

That would have been a great starting point, but law enforcement has apparently come up empty in that regard.

I think this was random, and a crime of opportunity.

As for keeping the cause of death a secret, that’s a standard move.

It prevents false confessions from misleading the investigation, and verifies legitimate ones.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

IMO: It seems unlikely that the killer would stop to give a stranger a ride.

Your point is a great one!

Maybe the hitchiker did not get a ride with the perp, but got close enough to see him parked at the lot.

Honestly, I have stopped considering all the unlikely things that 'could have happened' here and realized that many things in this case that happened have never happened in other cases.

 

[x_files]

Thanks MassGuy....very interesting.....not sure I want to dive into this case: sure be another rabbit hole, already so many questions.....main thing: how do we know this guy wasn't an internet stalker that they were meeting there? So odd next day was Valentine's day: the day they are found dead (not to be too conspiracy here, I actually abhor that nonsense: but when I just did a search on Abigail Williams: it was all about the original gal involved with the Salem witch trials...surely no connection or weirdness, but there was ZERO about this case...)
Keeping their cause of death a secret tends to make me think it's unique.....stab wounds, gun shot, even strangulation, how many ways could they have died - why not just admit that's how they died, one of these options, unless there is something hinky & unique about it...hmmm....

interesting. Let's say a local creep stalked Abby because of her name? Either into Satanism or thought she was a witch-related to Salem. Delusional?

 

[MassGuy]

interesting. Let's say a local creep stalked Abby because of her name? Either into Satanism or thought she was a witch-related to Salem. Delusional?

That just doesn’t happen.

That whole Satanism hysteria of the 80s and 90s, derailed countless investigations, and led to several false convictions.

I blame Maury and Geraldo for feeding that frenzy.

It caused a lot of harm, and was mostly baseless.

 

[mtnlites]

interesting. Let's say a local creep stalked Abby because of her name? Either into Satanism or thought she was a witch-related to Salem. Delusional?

We had pages and pages about this early on in the discussion. They may have been removed since then.

I can't imagine an actual Satanist committing such a crime just because of her name; for starters, the Satanists I've known have a pretty sympathetic attitude towards the women who were killed in Salem (as well as for any small group that bucks the system when it comes to religion) and the consensus has always been that they were innocent victims who weren't "witches" at all. Satanism, Wicca, Paganism, and a lot of the more nature-based religions aren't the violent groups that you see on television. That's Hollywood. (As well as part of the Satanic Panic of the 1980s.)

 

[Nerissa]

What I'm going to do: since I know just about zilch about this case: going to go off the cuff....because sometimes you forget that initial 'feel' you had
This guy is a loner, obsessed with the past, with history...he goes alone to certain places, stuck in his own mind, his own furies about life, & I bet about his lack of any women in his life, any 'success' in his life......(now I don't know how often Abby & Libby hiked here, maybe enough that he noticed them in the past).....he approaches them, they're young, and 'still nice' not like older gals, and.....essentially crime of opportunity: so much rage and resentment comes out......you know: I'm reminded a bit of the Bergman movie 'virgin spring' Ugh hate that movie....got me off 'indie' art films forever...but reminds me of it somehow....
Yeah, guy is local - but oddly not under suspicion...but I'll tell you: I know very small towns: it's not always what you think. If you belong you belong: if you don't you don't. And no one decides that aside from themselves - they WILL close ranks.
I'll leave my stream of consciousness there.....

 

[mtnlites]

That just doesn’t happen.

That whole Satanism hysteria of the 80s and 90s, derailed countless investigations, and led to several false convictions.

I blame Maury and Geraldo for feeding that frenzy.

It caused a lot of harm, and was mostly baseless.

Sorry dude, we were posting at the same time. You're right, of course. Despite the hysteria of that era (I can remember people telling my mother not to let me out of her sight because "devil worshipers" were kidnapping blonde hair and blue eyed girls for "rituals") there's not a single case of an actual Satanist or Wiccan intentionally bringing harm to a child back then. While there are cases in which "ritualistic abuse" occurs, it's not by actual Satanists. And it's not nearly as common as people think. We don't really burn people alive in wicker men.

 

[anotherjenny]

Your point is a great one!

Maybe the hitchiker did not get a ride with the perp, but got close enough to see him parked at the lot.

Honestly, I have stopped considering all the unlikely things that 'could have happened' here and realized that many things in this case that happened have never happened in other cases.

Or, the guy was given a ride just to where the driver parked at the (now) abandoned building where the driver reached his destination, and hh continued on his way down the highway. They know the vehicle was gone by 5:00 because people were searching for the girls by that time and didn't notice the car there. Sorry, I just keep going back to what they knew early and are circling back to now. Plus, the strange mention of the car at the last PC and giving no description of it. Just asking about the driver.

 

[Nerissa]

Argh - cannot find link: but it mainly consisted of the LE making a statement & releasing new information.....very emotional statement in truth. There was little background: but I did read that the cause of death was unclear - and that really got me...
interesting: the statement did talk @ people coming forward: that the killer was 'a monster' and it could happen again: ie, don't protect him....
To call him a 'monster' really makes me wonder what was done to those girls

 

[x_files]

That just doesn’t happen.

That whole Satanism hysteria of the 80s and 90s, derailed countless investigations, and led to several false convictions.

I blame Maury and Geraldo for feeding that frenzy.

It caused a lot of harm, and was mostly baseless.

I disagree...not saying the BG was part of an organized group of Satanists, but obsessed with Satanism or at least in his mind, numerology, or Salem witch trials her name. Or a religious nut. (delusional)
I had a friend who was stalked by a self-proclaimed Satanist, he was delusional thought she was his soulmate picked by Satan. Just super messed up. No idea why he obsessed on her.
Or he could be delusional thought God told him to punish them as EVIL. Since she shared a witch's name.
In a small town, it would be easy to stalk girls without ever contacting them online. See Jayme Closs case. He saw her one day decided to kidnap her. Went to the house a few times before returning. His first kill double homicide. I was shocked it was this young adult's first kill.
Until we know more we are just speculating anyway.

 

[MistyWaters]

I started watching this one, but had to stop. I didn’t like the animated people. I had just watched another one with actual people and could’ve still been disgusted by that one (the music and host behavior just seemed unnecessarily sensationalistic) so I’ll give it another try.

Edit: This was not the one I thought it was. Good info

I’ll admit I can’t even watch the animated one.

But GH has another video, the route Kelsi took to drop off the girls. Best as I can tell, it appears they were not dropped off at the head of the Monon High Bridge trail. I notice a gate and it looks like the same place Libby’s dad went to pick them up.

I think this access beside the Gerard Nature Reserve is the same one mentioned in a later media report, about the landowners closing it to public access, something about their home renovations being complete and too many people hanging around there. I believe it’s the same landowner who’s barn has been mentioned many times in the past (not RL’s).

Does anyone remember what I’m referring to or help me find it because I’d really like to read it again.

 

[Cutiekitty]

I mentioned this in a reply earlier - during the PC (I believe it was the PC could’ve been another recent interview) Carter said we were on to something in the beginning/early on (or something along those lines). He also said to BG, for the past two years you didn’t think we’d change direction and we did (paraphrasing).

What were they looking at before the first sketch was released? What would they be looking at in the very beginning of the investigation? I know they were looking for a hitchhiker and at social media. Anything else?

 

[mtnlites]

Argh - cannot find link: but it mainly consisted of the LE making a statement & releasing new information.....very emotional statement in truth. There was little background: but I did read that the cause of death was unclear - and that really got me...
interesting: the statement did talk @ people coming forward: that the killer was 'a monster' and it could happen again: ie, don't protect him....
To call him a 'monster' really makes me wonder what was done to those girls

Well, we know they were murdered and left in the middle of a cold park by themselves. That's pretty much the work of a monster to me, even with a COD that's not particularly unique.