IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #104

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. waltzingmatilda

    waltzingmatilda Verified Insider-Roy Moore

    Messages:
    6,680
    Likes Received:
    368
    Trophy Points:
    83
    I've been thinking about BG's profession/trade that would allow him to have time off during the day to be on the MHB. I'm thinking handyman of some sort. Roofer, siding, fence builder, landscaper, etc. Something that allows him to go job to job and also freedom with his schedule. IMO he lives in the county and not Delphi proper or surely a citizen of Delphi would have recognized any similarities to the sketch and turned him in. He certainly doesn't seem to have a fear of heights. He is walking very close to the side of the bridge so he knows where there is the strongest support for a person his size and has most likely walked it before. One good push and he would be over the side. I also would not be surprised if he has a history of drug abuse but hasn't been caught.

    But what in the world would compel him to murder two innocent girls?

    All moo.
     
  2. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Excellent post!
     
  3. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    1,943
    Likes Received:
    10,156
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I guess anyone who refused, LE could just test the trash anyway.
     
  4. BlueShoe

    BlueShoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    595
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Thank you! Probably just too much coffee this morning, but this does help me visualize something. MOO
     
    susiQ, Blue Amethyst and DancingMuse like this.
  5. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,970
    Likes Received:
    13,625
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I don’t think they have to ask anyone who refused for an alibi, or demand DNA from everyone, but a voluntary drive might work as they just need a third cousin. Provided LE “has DNA” from the crime. Not sure of it, though.
     
  6. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

    Messages:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    43,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    He could also work 3rd shift or do shift work in general. Not all work schedules run Monday-Friday. In previous jobs my husband's "weekend" might be Wednesday and Thursday, or his days off one week might have been Tuesday and Saturday. BG could also draw SSI or could draw money as a caretaker for a family member.
     
  7. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

    Messages:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    43,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I was replying to the specific example that the poster gave. In that post they said, "either provide DNA or supply an alibi" (paraphrasing). I wasn't responding to how these drives normally work, just that particular post.
     
  8. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,928
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I came across a video that I had missed. Becky talks about Libby and there are many photos I hadn’t seen before. It moves on to the night before the tragedy and everything that happened the following day from the time the girls woke. As watching videos isn’t everybody’s cup of tea, I decided to transcribe Becky Patty’s entire version of Feb. 13 because it helps clear up a lot of speculation. Many things that are discussed repeatedly on WS are covered. As it’s a long video, I’ll break the transcript into parts. As it’s not a court transcript, I’ve deleted words that are repeated unnecessarily.

    Gray Hughes interview with Mike and Becky Patty – Part 1

    Had Libby been to the Monon High Bridge before?

    GH: So did Kelsi and Libby go out to the bridge sometimes together to take photos prior?

    BP: Yes. They would go out – actually there’s, I think, a picture, my cover picture on my Facebook right now – there’s Kelsi, Libby and their cousin. Yeah, they, they would go out – they went out there with their other grandma the summer before. I mean they’ve been out there many, many times. That’s what they do.



    Sunday night

    BP: Well, Abby spent the night with Libby on Sunday night and they had stayed up late through the night painting their chocolate painting and messing around. We actually have a couple of videos that they had taken of each other that night, kind of goofing around.

    Monday morning

    They slept in ‘cause they were up late. When they got up it was, I don’t know, maybe 10:00 or so and Derrick made them pancakes. They had pancakes, and of course Libby always wants to be on the go and she was wanting to do something but Kelsi had to work that day. I was working and Derrick took off to go take some pictures for me, and so I told Libby – she’d kind of gotten into shopping recently. She enjoyed shopping which was new for her because she used to have to drag her with me to buy her school clothes. Because Libby has started shopping, I told her that “I have some filing to do and if you girls want to do some filing for me, I’ll pay you and maybe later on today or tonight when I’m done, we could go”.


    So they came out and were doing some filing – they were out with the file cabinets, filing and stuff – and Kelsi came out – see, I don’t know the exact time of that, you know, why would we have paid attention to that – but she came out – it was probably close to 1:00 and said, “Hey, I work at 4:00. I’m going to go to a friend’s house for a little bit and then, then I’m going on to work. Well, as soon as Libby heard that, Libby jumped up and said, “Hey, will you take us to the bridge?” and Kelsi said, “I don’t care”. And she looked at me and said, “Grandma, can I go?” and I said, “Well, you’ve got to have a ride home ‘cause I’m working and I can’t stop to pick you up, you know, until quitting time and I’m not – I just don’t have the time to do it”. So she said, “Well, I’ll just call my Dad”. Well, I assumed that she called her Dad. I didn’t specifically say, “Libby, did you call your Dad?” I assumed it was done. And another thing that I automatically tell kids when they have a friend over when they ask if they can do something, one of the things that I automatically say is, is it okay with their parents. You know, like that’s just – any time somebody spends the night and they want to go do something, then I’ll say, well, they have to ask their parents too. I assumed that everything was okay when she came and said, “Hey, we’re leaving”. She called her Dad on the way but it’s because she knew that he would never tell her “No”. He ne…, Derrick never told her “No” for anything, not that she ever asked for anything unrealistic but if she asked him to do something, he just, he did it. It’s just that – and if he would have said, “No”, I guess she would have come back home – Kelsi would have just brought her home – but there was no reason for him not to. He was taking these pictures, about 3 miles out of his way to swing by and pick her up. So it wasn’t big deal for him to swing by and pick her up. And they did. That’s when they left.


    But I do know that the last things that I said to her – she was standing in the doorway of the office – and I told her that she needed to take a jacket just in case it got chilly, and she said, “I don’t need one. I don’t need a jacket”. And I said, “Libby, take a jacket” and she said, “It’s okay Grandma”, and she was standing there with that smile that she does, and I didn’t say anything more. I said, “Well, if you get cold …”, you know. And that was my last – her standing there smiling at me, telling me, “Grandma, it’s okay”.


    [As it's a link to a video, I'll include it at the end of the last part to conserve space].
     
  9. Angelcat13

    Angelcat13 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    273
    Likes Received:
    1,827
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Or have been a student.
     
  10. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

    Messages:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    43,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Or unemployed.
     
  11. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,928
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gray Hughes interview with Mike and Becky Patty – Part 2

    So they left here right around – give or take a couple of minutes – they left here right around 1:30. What I do know is Kelsi had said that she was talking on the phone to her boyfriend when she dropped them off, and I looked at phone records and it shows that she called or the call came in from her boyfriend at 1:38. So she was talking to her boyfriend at 1:38 when she dropped them off. That’s when the phone call started. So I don’t know how long she talked to him and I don’t know how many minutes it was to get there, but she dropped them off and she watched them. She said she watched them until they got to the, into the trailhead and then she pulled on out and went on to her friend’s house.

    So when Derrick got done taking his pictures in Frankfort, he came back to pick Libby up. He came up 75 and came across the country roads to pick Libby up, ‘cause it’s the easy way. That’s the way we always go, that direction. That’s just how you do here. So he – when he was – there’s a bridge – it’s called Wilson’s Bridge – and he said as he was crossing that bridge he called her again. We checked phone records and it was at 3:11 that he called her to tell her – he was going to tell her, “Hey, start heading towards the trailhead. I’m gonna be there in a minute or two”, you know, but she didn’t answer. So when he got to the trail…– to the drop off point, he called her again. And that on our phone records show at 3:14, and he told me that as he was getting out of the car, he called her. So at that point she didn’t answer so he started walking up towards the trailhead. He stood there for a little bit. He looked around and didn’t see anybody or anything so he started walking towards the High Bridge.

    He was just about to where it forks and he ran into an older guy, a gentleman that was coming from the High Bridge, and he asked him, “Did you see a couple of girls there?” and he said, “No, but there’s a couple down underneath”. So Derrick, instead of going to the High Bridge, took the trail that went down to the creek to where he said that the couple was there. I don’t even remember if he said he saw them or what but he came walking back up and he called me. That was when he called me – it was about 3:30 – and said, “Libby’s not answering her phone and I don’t see her”. So we told him that we would – Tara works with me – so I started calling her and then Tara called and messaged. We sent several messages. We would take turns calling. Derrick did walk down to the Freedom Bridge and walked back. He passed that older gentleman again and – so he went back to the car and he was, like I said, he was walking, and by this time it was about 4 o’clock.

    We had been trying to get ahold of Libby for close to half an hour so we decided, okay, we’re gonna go look for her. Tara and I were here. Tara went ahead and took off. I had to let the dogs out and I called Mike at that time and said, “Hey, Libby’s not answering her phone. She’s at the trails. We’re gonna go and look” and he said, “Okay”. He says, “I’m on my way. I’ll leave work. I’ll be there as soon as I can get there”. So as I was walking out of the house to leave – so I was maybe 5 or 10 minutes behind Tara leaving, she went ahead and went, and that’s when – and when she got there, Derrick got into the car with her. And I know there are some people that have said they saw Derrick in a car with somebody, and they did. They saw him sitting with Tara for a little bit, for a bit. He was explaining to her, and so they were waiting for the rest of us to get there so we could figure out who was gonna go where to search.

    As I was walking out of the house, Cody came in. He had just gotten off of work and he asked me what I was doing so I told him what was going on. So Cody got in the car with me and we decided there’s two different ways that those girls could have walked home had they decided to walk home. So we drove both routes to see if maybe they decided to walk home. Maybe something happened to her phone. The only thing we could figure at that time is maybe they had fallen down a hill. Maybe they were hurt. Maybe – because she always has her phone in her hand most of the time and maybe the phone dropped or something. That’s what we were expecting, that they were down a ravine somewhere and couldn’t get out. And then by the time we got there, there were other vehicles there, several of them, to the point that I had to park across the road. I pulled into the ditch across the road because there were so many vehicles. Some of those were ours – there were several – at this point in time there were several people there that was not family. So we started looking for the girls.

    [As it's a link to a video, I'll include it at the end of the last part to conserve space].
     
    TL4S, marypretzels, SDfossil and 34 others like this.
  12. AliceInPain

    AliceInPain Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    2,515
    Trophy Points:
    113
    sbm
    I've been thinking the same. Some type of job like that, where he's also usually dressed in a uniform/overalls and doesn't keep his hands in his pockets because he's always carrying tools or is working with them.
     
  13. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,928
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gray Hughes interview with Mike and Becky Patty – Part 3

    Now I don’t remember a lot of the walking because at that point in time I called AT&T because Libby had reset her phone the week before because it kept glitching, it just kept catching, it kept freezing up on her. So she reset the phone to factory reset, but when she did that, she didn’t reset some of the different apps. So I called AT&T to ask them if they could ping or trace her phone because if you have, you know, like that thing, Trace My Phone or whatever it is as an app, you can – they can do it. So I know that they probably could trace her phone. And I got the run-around. I kept telling them that she was lost, we couldn’t find her, I needed somebody to trace her phone so that we could maybe find her but they told me they couldn’t do it. And then she told me, well, there was this app and I could do it. So I downloaded this app and everything and I said, “Okay, what do I do to do it?” She says, “Well, you’ve got to download her app on her phone”. I said, “Don’t you understand? Don’t you understand? I don’t have her phone”. So I was on the phone with them quite a while arguing with them that this was very important, it was urgent, and I wasn’t getting any help from them. And about this time it was about quarter after 5:00 or so because Mike came walking up. He had been searching too.


    When he got there, like I said, there were a lot of people there. There wasn’t any place for them to park, so because there was no place for them to park, he pulled in to Meares’s, their driveway and Mr Meares happened to be there at that time and he came walking out and he asked – he told him what was going on and asked if it was okay to park in his driveway and he said, “Yes, that’d be fine”. So then that’s when he came over and was searching too, and he had searched for a while. And he happened to be walking up to me and it was a quarter after 5:00 and I said, “It’s gonna be dark soon. We need to, we really need to call the police. So when we checked the phone records, the time – the police call was about 5:20. So, and when he did that, I wasn’t able to get ahold of Anna earlier so I tried calling her. I couldn’t get ahold of her. So I told him, I said, “I’m leaving. If you’re calling the police, I’m leaving and I’m going to Anna’s house. I’ve got to get ahold of Anna. So I left there and I went to her house …



    [As it's a link to a video, I'll include it at the end of the last part to conserve space]
     
    SDfossil, Wells, 8paws and 28 others like this.
  14. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,970
    Likes Received:
    13,625
    Trophy Points:
    113
    @mtnlites, and I was not confronting you, but thinking what else could be done to help catch the BG. I actually, returned to this case when I thought that the DNA was available, before the last presser. In fact, only because of the hope for the DNA. Now, I am not so sure, but I hope they do have “some” DNA, enough to find him.
     
  15. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Oh! What a tangled web we weave....

    Messages:
    1,943
    Likes Received:
    10,156
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I didn't actually say that. I suggested if they didn't supply a voluntary sample they could be asked for an alibi. They wouldn't have to give an alibi or say anything as the whole process would be voluntary - that's my point. Nobody would be pressed for anything.
     
    Moonracer, DancingMuse and Alisajo like this.
  16. raja

    raja Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    400
    Likes Received:
    2,815
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Just a what if I have been thinking about today. A girl and guy come to the park around noon and park at the CPS building. They are down by the creek and are arguing. The girl takes off and gets in the car and leaves. Boy is unhinged and a powder keg. He crosses paths with Abbey and Libby and he blows. That girl would remember she parked at the CPS building. LE knows there may have been a car there at noon and sometime before 5PM it was not. All just speculation. My mind runs wild sometimes.
     
    TL4S, SDfossil, alj65 and 25 others like this.
  17. JudgeJudi

    JudgeJudi Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    8,928
    Likes Received:
    16,184
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gray Hughes interview with Mike and Becky Patty – Part 4

    GH: And Mike, what do you remember from that day?

    MP: I usually get off anywhere, typically 4:00, 4:30, 5 o’clock. It just depends, you know, for whatever business is going on. Sometimes I’m at work way late and other times not, but an average day would be probably be 4:00, 4:30. And Becky called and said, “Hey, I can’t get ahold of Libby. She, they went, she went to the trails, her and Abby. I said, again, we didn’t know exactly what time until we actually looked at our phone records ‘cause you don’t pay attention, you know, like I’m, “Great, I’ll log out of here. I’ll be up there, you know, help you. I’ll meet up with you at the trails”.

    So as soon as I got there, like I said, we all walked around and I did talk to the landowner there. I’d actually called another police officer I know and asked him if they could track a phone and he said, “Yeah”. He said, “Just go ahead and call in to the Sheriff’s department. They can kind of help get that initiated”. So we did that. That was all in the same time when I was walking the trails and saw Becky and she said, “Hey, we need to call the police. It’s gonna get dark soon.

    So I called the police and said, “Hey, this is what we’ve got and I’d like you to help track, you know, ping this phone and see if we can’t get it going”. And I actually went back – ‘cause I was back at the truck – I walked back down the trail, and so literally within probably 10 minutes by the time I left the truck and walked back to the trail – I was walking back towards town – I ran into two officers coming at me down the trail. So they had deployed immediately, you know, on my call. I think there was a city officer and a county officer and we saw each other and said, “Hey, did you see them”. “No, neither one of us did”. So they spun around and then I think that’s when I ended up going back to the police station so we could give them the phone information so they could start pinging. Becky was already there. Anna was there and it was a long night coming up with anything we could do with phones.

    So I called the police and said, “Hey, this is what we’ve got and I’d like you to help track, you know, ping this phone and see if we can’t get it going”. And I actually went back – ‘cause I was back at the truck – I walked back down the trail, and so literally within probably 10 minutes by the time I left the truck and walked back to the trail – I was walking back towards town – I ran into two officers coming at me down the trail. So they had deployed immediately, you know, on my call. I think there was a city officer and a county officer and we saw each other and said, “Hey, did you see them”. “No, neither one of us did”. So they spun around and then I think that’s when I ended up going back to the police station so we could give them the phone information so they could start pinging. Becky was already there. Anna was there and it was a long night coming up with anything we could do with phones.

    You know, I ran back out to the house here and got any iPads or iPods or computers or anything – electronic gadgetry that I could come across to take back in so they could do all that. I have a cousin that works at a local TV station and he got wind of it and came down and it was on the news that night that we were searching because I’ve got buddies in the fire department and around town and once they got wind of it, they started pulling people in. So the search continued all evening long, in fact even all night. There was people out all night.

    [As it's a link to a video, I'll include it at the end of the last part to conserve space]
     
  18. mtnlites

    mtnlites President of the Imaginary Friends' Club

    Messages:
    4,583
    Likes Received:
    43,133
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Sorry. That is not the way that I read your post.
     
  19. allboys

    allboys Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    442
    Likes Received:
    3,907
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Regarding having voluntary DNA collection of Delphi men, this is a great article citing a few cases where such a thing was done, and what residents’ actions and reactions were like. Apologies if someone has already posted this.

    To Try to Net Killer, Police Ask a Small Town's Men for DNA
     
  20. BlueShoe

    BlueShoe Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    595
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I often experience the "wild mind" syndrome as well. After pages of "guys" and who says it, I appreciate out-of-the-box thinking. Your theory could work because I don't think we know what time the couple were spotted (if they were the couple). It could also work in terms of the YBG sketch, because if the girl was known to not be Abby or Libby, then maybe the witness could be discounted at first if the situation seemed not to have relevance. Could be another rabbit hole, but maybe not. MOO
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page



  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.
    Dismiss Notice