Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves

New Posts

Status
Not open for further replies.
Tricia

Tricia

Manager Websleuths.com
Staff member
Administrator
Moderator
Joined
Sep 13, 2003
Messages
29,797
Reaction score
47,721
Welcome back to the Delphi Murders discussion thread.

On the afternoon of Feb. 13th, 2017, best friends Abigail Williams and Liberty German were dropped off at a bridge in the town of Delphi. On Feb 14th their bodies were discovered around noon about 50 feet from the north bank of Deer Creek which is about 0.5 miles from the bridge.
The Sheriff's office gave a press conference on 4/22/19 and we have some solid information. Please take a look below

HERE IS THE NEW SKETCH FROM THE PRESS CONFERENCE ON 4/22/19
delphi-suspect-sketch-ht-jef-190422_hpEmbed_5x6_992.jpg



HERE IS THE NEW AUDIO. IT'S-A BIT LONGER THAN THE FIRST AUDIO:
https://www.in.gov/isp/files/Delphi_Audio_Edited_2019x3.wav
Link to post with all Threads #1-98(Courtesy of margarita25)

Thread #90 Thread #91 Thread #92 Thread #93 Thread #94 Thread #95 Thread #96 Thread #97 Thread #98 Thread #99 Thread #100 Thread #101 Thread #102 Thread #103 Thread #104 Thread #105

Link to Media Maps & Timelines *No Discussion*
Link to Media Maps & Timelines #2 *No Discussion*

IMAGE Discussion Thread

Scanner Thread

Rules Etiquette & Information
Case map by skibaboo updated with grayhuze crime flow video
grayhuze youtube channel

Verified Insiders: None in this case at this time. Verified Professional, Member michael.gartley, is a Verified Expert in Imaging Science.

RULES OF THIS DISCUSSION
DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.​


PLEASE DO NOT POST PICTURES OF SEX OFFENDERS!

Do not sleuth family, PERIOD. This includes previous public records which have nothing to do with this case. They are victims here. Plain and simple.

4) If you feel you have a tip, by all means, phone it in. Do NOT discuss your tip here. Contact the authorities and give them time to follow your lead.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
There is a lot to discuss in the Delphi case with all the very big developments.

We have a very strong rule on Websleuths. Do not ask someone to PM you on a discussion thread. Why? You saw what happens on this thread. The thread was almost taken over by people saying "PM ME PM ME". We couldn't keep up with removing the posts.
If you want someone to PM you then what you do is you PRIVATE MESSAGE THEM FIRST and ask them whatever.

You do not stop the whole discussion and ask someone to PM you.

We will be giving long time-outs to anyone who says they have the information they can only share in PM's or words to that effect.

We call that "baiting" and it makes me crazy. It is so frustrating to try and get things under control when someone recklessly posts a cryptic post creating a frenzy of posts asking to be PM'd.
Please be mindful of our rules.
Thank you,
Tricia
 
ISP: Delphi Homicide Investigation
"On Monday, February 13th, at approximately 1:00 p.m., the two young girls were let off near the Monon High Bridge, an abandoned rail bridge over Deer Creek to walk around and hang out. They were to be picked up later in the afternoon, but did not show up there at the previously arranged time. Following an extensive search, at approximately 12:15 p.m. on February 14, 2017, the bodies of the two girls were found in a wooded area near the Delphi Historic Trail, approximately one-half mile upstream from the bridge.

Delphi_murder_suspect.jpg

Delphi homicide suspect
On Wednesday, February 15th, law enforcement officers distributed a photograph of a person observed on the Delphi Historic Trail. The photograph appears to depict a white male wearing blue jeans, a blue coat/jacket, and a hoodie. During the course of the investigation, preliminary evidence has led investigators to believe the person, in the distributed photograph, is a suspect in the investigation of the homicides of Abigail Williams and Liberty German.

Additionally, investigators have released an updated voice recording and video of the suspect not previously released that was extracted from Liberty “Libby” German’s cell phone."
LISTEN: Police release audio of Delphi, Ind. murder suspect
 
holtzmann said:
Please don't actively sleuth civilians. If you think something is worthy of a tip, tell LE. Speculating here can get the thread locked down even if you don't specify names.
Click to expand...

Jumping off this post to remind everyone that you need to call or email the police if you think you have a tip or have discovered a person who matches the sketch or sketches. DO NOT post what you think you have found here on the forum.

Take any and all sleuthing of non-POIs to your private conversations and DO NOT mention them here. It is a major TOS violation to sleuth non-POIs on the forum. It's even worse if you are implicating a minor child in your posts. And baiting is against our rules, so DO NOT hint that you have uncovered information that you can't share openly here.

If you think you know something, call the police.
 
April 22 Press Conference transcript:

<news announcer>
Doug Carter and he has taken the stand. We'll take a listen in.

<audio cuts in to Superintendent Carter>
... the Delphi community how grateful I am you inspire people you don't even understand and you don't even understand why. Information is being released today is the result of literally thousands and thousands of hours of extraordinary investigative efforts by Delphi Carroll County, the FBI, the Indiana State Police and countless other agencies. This community surrounded us some twenty six months ago and you did everything you could to support us but most importantly you surrounded the family of these two little girls. Gosh I'll never forget it. After you hear what we're going to release today I'm going to ask for your continued support, your continued understanding, your empathy and compassion as we move forward to find out who did this and we will.

We're seeking the public's help to identify the driver of a vehicle that was parked at the old CPS DCS welfare building in the city of Delphi that was abandoned on the east side of County Road 300 North next to the Hoosier Heartland highway between the hours of noon to 5:00 on February 14th 2017. If you were parked there or know who was parked there please contact the officers at the command post at the Delphi city building.

We are releasing additional portions of the audio recorded from that day. Please keep in mind the person talking is one person and is the person on the bridge with the girls. This is not two different people speaking. Please listen to it very, very carefully. We are also releasing video recovered from Libby's phone. This video has never before been previously released. The video shows a suspect walking on the bridge. When you see the video watch the watch the person's mannerisms as they walk. Watch the mannerisms as he walks. Do you recognize the mannerisms as being someone that you might know? Remember he is walking on a former railroad bridge. Because of the deteriorated condition of the bridge the suspect is not walking naturally due to the spacing between the ties.

During the course of this investigation we have concluded the first sketch released will become secondary as of today. The result of the new information and intelligence over time leads us to believe the sketch which you will see shortly is the person responsible for the murders of these two little girls. We also believe this person is from Delphi. Currently or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40 but might appear younger than its true age.

Directly to the killer who may be in this room. We believe you are hiding in plain sight. For more than two years you never thought we would shift gears to a different investigative strategy but we have. We likely have interviewed you or someone close to you. We know that this is about power to you and you want to know what we know. And one day you will.

The question to you: what will those closest to you think of they find out that you brutally murdered two little girls, two children? Only a coward would do such a thing.

We are confident that you have told someone what you have done or at the very least they know because how different you are since the murders. We try so hard to understand how a person could do something like this to to two chil to two children. I recently watched a movie called The Shack and there's also a book that talks so well about evil, about death and about eternity. To the murderer I believe you have just a little bit of a conscience left and I can assure you that how you left them in that woods is not, is not what they are experiencing today.

The family. I hope that you all will give them some time because we're going to be asking that there's no media inquiry or no media response for at least the next two weeks and I hope you understand why. The family found out about this about this information this morning. I just want the family to know that when I take my last breath on this earth I'll be thinking of them. There's going to be a tremendous amount of <unintelligble> I know that. I know that. Never in my career have I stood in front of something like this. Please be patient with us. Please. We're just beginning. We are we are just now beginning. That I can tell you on behalf of the sheriff and the police chief so many other partners that have stood with us over this period of time that we will not stop.

-- Other officer ..
I just unveiled the person that we believe responsible for the murder of these two little girls so I invite media to take a look at that now. Kim.

We're also going to show you a video not previously released that superintendent spoke to and also the audio that's additional to what's been previously released. It's only a slight change in it. So give Sergeant Riley just a second as he gets that up and ready.
<plays audio>
Stand by for the video please. There is no sound of the video.
<plays video> As Superintendent Carter mentioned. He is on the railway bridge. You have to take different steps to get to it. This information later this afternoon will be on the state police website. For the community that's here we have 100 copies of the news release. If you put in that URL you'll be able to get to that site to play it. And we also have that same release for you in the media and the rest of the state we'll get that released in about 15 minutes. So we appreciate those of you that came here. This concludes our announcement. Thank you for your time patience and courtesy.
<end>

 
Admin note: Be sure to read the parameters for posting laid out in post #1 and 2 by Tricia.

Pay particular attention to this quote from Tricia:

DO NOT post photos of random individuals (including persons featured in MSM articles about other area crimes) to compare to the images of unidentified suspect on the bridge.

Members who insist on breaking our rules by continually casting suspicion on people who have not been designated as suspects or POIs have and will be placed on thread reply bans.


 
A few reminders:
*When posting statements of fact a link to MSM must be provided.
*Information from Topix and Reddit are not allowed here.
*Before discussing podcasts, etc please check with a moderator, an admin or Tricia to see if it is approved to be posted here. (note: the the Podcast Best case Worst Case - a discussion between three former FBI agents is fine to discuss)
*It is against our TOS to discuss the comments of visitors on social media.
*Information on the scanner threads remains on those threads.
*There are no named POIs in this case. Do not make insinuations or veiled accusations about random people.
 
This thread is dedicated to discussing details of Abby's and Libby's case.

Please keep details related to other cases in their own dedicated thread. It gets confusing to read a post, wonder what the heck it is about, and then realize it pertains to another case entirely.
 
janewall said:
My understanding of genetics is that a father would not pass mtDNA to sons, except in the rare case of familial mitochondrial disease, but it's possible all of the father's and brother's brothers are in LE's sights because they all inherited the same mtDNA from their mother.

All brothers and sons of the 'protector' could have the same Y-chromosomal DNA.

ETA: MOO, I am not a geneticist.
Click to expand...

You are right, mito DNA comes from the mother. If they have autosomal DNA, mito is less important, but mitochondria are abundant, and in case of small amount of DNA, it is easier to extract the one from mitochondria. It might be the only DNA to work with in certain cases.

Ideal case: a tree in which many girls did not get married, or married and left no female offsprings. And then one girl got married, and had sons, but, say, moved from So. Dakota (arbitrarily) to Delphi, IN, to get married. And at this, her mitochondrial DNA is of a rare subclade.

Not a geneticist, either. But this is what I wish were the case.

ETA: Found an article explaining something about mito DNA.
https://www.promegaconnections.com/mitochondrial-dna-typing-in-forensics/
 
Last edited:
Charlot123 said:
You are right, mito DNA comes from the mother. If they have autosomal DNA, mito is less important, but mitochondria are abundant, and in case of small amount of DNA, it is easier to extract the one from mitochondria. It might be the only DNA to work with in certain cases.

Ideal case: a tree in which many girls did not get married, or married and left no female offsprings. And then one girl got married, and had sons, but, say, moved from So. Dakota (arbitrarily) to Delphi, IN, to get married. And at this, her mitochondrial DNA is of a rare subclade.

Not a geneticist, either. But this is what I wish were the case.
Click to expand...
This is correct.
Mitochondrial DNA passes from the mother. I was just suggesting earlier that an example of a false alibi could come from a father to protect one son, but could expose all the sons to scrutiny as they all have the same mother and hence same mitochondrial DNA. LE would have to look at many males in a pedigree from the first generation identified downward.
 
Daae said:
This is correct.
Mitochondrial DNA passes from the mother. I was just suggesting earlier that an example of a false alibi could come from a father to protect one son, but could expose all the sons to scrutiny as they all have the same mother and hence same mitochondrial DNA. LE would have to look at many males in a pedigree from the first generation identified downward.
Click to expand...

True. But, some males never lived in the area, some have solid alibi, some don’t fit age-wise. I think the rarity of the group matters. (I looked at my dad’s uber-rare mito, to realize that in his area, his family, there are only three male carriers, all of different ages.)

It may not fly in court, but for LE, it might be very telling.
 
BNA said:
A couple posts right as the previous thread was closing involved BG's hair....if it was styled or put up somehow.

Leads me to ask: What if the perp gets his hair styled...maybe regularly?
Click to expand...
I keep looking at his hair. I hadn't thought of that. My opinion was that it was covered over/tied up in some way so that there was less chance of hairs escaping and getting caught on the girls clothing. Of course I would guess you would need the follicle for DNA.
 
Thelastleg said:
I keep looking at his hair. I hadn't thought of that. My opinion was that it was covered over/tied up in some way so that there was less chance of hairs escaping and getting caught on the girls clothing. Of course I would guess you would need the follicle for DNA.
Click to expand...
Dbm
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

DNASolves

Who is Fairfield County Jane Doe (1993)?

Members online

... and 187 more.
Total: 412 (members: 188, guests: 224)

Online statistics

Members online
188
Guests online
224
Total visitors
412
Totals may include hidden visitors.

Forum statistics

Threads
608,783
Messages
18,245,776
Members
234,450
Latest member
jmac87
Back
Top