Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #106

[cody22]

How do we know he didn't have a cell phone on him? It could have been turned off. And him not taking Liberty's doesn't surprise me, even if he saw it. Cellphones are ubiquitous and part of the environment we don't even notice anymore. I'm sure it never crossed his mind that he was being recorded. Jmo

It may have crossed his mind that he could be tracked by it, if he took it. Destroying it on the spot, if seen, would have been better for BG.....moo

 

[ijuswannaplay2]

After looking at the helicopter video and the stills Jethro posted it looks as if the crime scene is closer to the cemetery than the creek. If that's the case, it makes me think he was leading them towards the cemetery and a possible getaway vehicle to abduct them and take them to another location. Maybe one or both of the girls decided to make a break for it and took off which led him to commit the murders there. Doesn't make sense to me, if just killing them was his original plan, why he didn't do it closer to crossing the creek. MOO

 

[Julia966]

Yeah, taking the phone or anything from the crime scene would be very dangerous. He had no idea he was being recorded and photographed, so there would be no reason to. He must have been in shock to find his picture and voice all over the internet and the news.

 

[tresir2012]

Agree. Unless, of course, you hear someone say, “youz guys” - then you know they’re from South Philly!

(Sorry - just a little humor that reflects the South Jersey vs Philly arguments.)

So is the consensus this is an Indiana accent? Delphi/Lafayette/Logansport? Can we pin it down?

 

[oksooner]

Does anyone else think sketch #2 is very specific? I don't think it is coincidence that it looks exactly like someone close. If I am right(purely MOO), I think they will make an arrest within a couple of months.

 

[tresir2012]

After looking at the helicopter video and the stills Jethro posted it looks as if the crime scene is closer to the cemetery than the creek. If that's the case, it makes me think he was leading them towards the cemetery and a possible getaway vehicle to abduct them and take them to another location. Maybe one or both of the girls decided to make a break for it and took off which led him to commit the murders there. Doesn't make sense to me, if just killing them was his original plan, why he didn't do it closer to crossing the creek. MOO

Or he got them into a vehicle under the bridge immediately and did take them around to RL's or the cemetery. If the you tubers got the reenactments wrong maybe they didn't cross the creek after all. However, we do have reports the girls were found 50 feet from the creek so that is pretty exact ie nearer to the creek than the cemetery.

 

[tresir2012]

Yes, I’ve considered that and it’s certainly possible. But the new sketch implies someone young enough that I have a really hard time comprehending that he would not be aware of cloud data. But as good a theory as any I’ve come up with!

So if they weren’t aware of cloud data then I think that actually helps narrow the pool of suspects- what types of people would be young and yet not aware of cloud data? Not sure I have an answer to that but I’d start with being less suspicious of perhaps college guys, people who work in tech jobs, tv personalities, teachers...etc. I’m assuming this is all part of the FBI profile they’ve come up with and that LE has considered that bent.

Amish people? Do they shun phones and computers? (And vehicles, so that is maybe out.)

 

[TL4S]

After looking at the helicopter video and the stills Jethro posted it looks as if the crime scene is closer to the cemetery than the creek. If that's the case, it makes me think he was leading them towards the cemetery and a possible getaway vehicle to abduct them and take them to another location. Maybe one or both of the girls decided to make a break for it and took off which led him to commit the murders there. Doesn't make sense to me, if just killing them was his original plan, why he didn't do it closer to crossing the creek. MOO

Makes me look at that scenario closer, too.

 

[Boxer]

I finally watched the Melvin YT walk through of DTH. Very helpful, but I think the creek was much higher the day of the crime than it was in her video. You can tell by the helicopter footage.

MOO I didn't see a good look the sand bar area in the helicopter footage, maybe I missed it. JM was there 2 weeks later, 3/5//017. I know all waterways level data is available but don't see it when I tried to search this morning. It would be interesting to know.

 

[Boxer]

After looking at the helicopter video and the stills Jethro posted it looks as if the crime scene is closer to the cemetery than the creek. If that's the case, it makes me think he was leading them towards the cemetery and a possible getaway vehicle to abduct them and take them to another location. Maybe one or both of the girls decided to make a break for it and took off which led him to commit the murders there. Doesn't make sense to me, if just killing them was his original plan, why he didn't do it closer to crossing the creek. MOO

MOO they were found on a flat. MOO up from the creek its a climb until there.

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks for this. Am I seeing it correctly? It looks kind of like a white vehicle/truck/camper. That's the CSI tent? It looks like a good stone's throw from the cemetery?

That doesn't seem to match with the location they were found closer to the water. Maybe it's a vehicle traveling to the site? I'm just trying to visualize it all in my head.

I think where we saw the flashes is where the girls were found. I think the white thing nearer the cemetery is likely the forensic tent on slightly more level ground or even the coroners vehicle. MOO

 

[CrimeDawg123]

After looking at the helicopter video and the stills Jethro posted it looks as if the crime scene is closer to the cemetery than the creek. If that's the case, it makes me think he was leading them towards the cemetery and a possible getaway vehicle to abduct them and take them to another location. Maybe one or both of the girls decided to make a break for it and took off which led him to commit the murders there. Doesn't make sense to me, if just killing them was his original plan, why he didn't do it closer to crossing the creek. MOO

I am inclined to think his taking the girls across the creek towards the cemetery was for the express purpose of his getaway. Whether he intended to abduct one or both, or just attack/kill in situ, he needed to get away and he did it on that side of the creek. IMO

 

[tresir2012]

Thanks for that. From the article:

"The man in the first sketch, which was released in July 2017, is no longer considered a suspect."

It's still confusing. On the one hand, they're saying the person responsible is "a combination of the two", but then they go on to say the guy is the first sketch is no longer considered a suspect, leading one to believe that they have tracked him down and cleared him. I'm not sure what to think. I guess we have to ride it out and, once he is caught, maybe they'll explain more about how it went down.

Brothers or cousins perhaps? Father and son? Two people should in theory be easier to catch but they could be each others alibis too.

 

[Jethro4WS]

Do you happen to have a map with the spot pin pointed? I can kind of visualize it, but not quite.

I really appreciate the helicopter photos BTW.

This is my best estimated position:
Google Maps

 

[rosesfromangels]

After looking at the helicopter video and the stills Jethro posted it looks as if the crime scene is closer to the cemetery than the creek. If that's the case, it makes me think he was leading them towards the cemetery and a possible getaway vehicle to abduct them and take them to another location. Maybe one or both of the girls decided to make a break for it and took off which led him to commit the murders there. Doesn't make sense to me, if just killing them was his original plan, why he didn't do it closer to crossing the creek. MOO

Perhaps he had someone waiting at a designated spot, or he had another cache of murderous tools waiting somewhere. Or, a specific tree he wanted to leverage for restraint purposes.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[rosesfromangels]

Brothers or cousins perhaps? Father and son? Two people should in theory be easier to catch but they could be each others alibis too.

I have always strongly speculated that this is the case.

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[FinePrint]

Looks like from the most southern part of the cemetery to the waters edge is approximately 700 feet.

From the photo posted earlier by Jethro you can see how close the water is to the crime scene. Maybe 100 feet in my estimation. It looks to me (my own opinion) that those flashes seen in the copter footage are at the staging area for LE vehicles at the very rear (southern part) of the cemetery. That still picture of Jethro's with the crime tape is so much closer to the water than it is to the cemetery.

 

[JnRyan]

I am inclined to think his taking the girls across the creek towards the cemetery was for the express purpose of his getaway. Whether he intended to abduct one or both, or just attack/kill in situ, he needed to get away and he did it on that side of the creek. IMO

If that was his vehicle parked at the CPS building, I'm thinking he left the crime scene staying just inside the tree line till he got close to the trail. Then he likely walked out to the road and walked to his vehicle. After the murders he likely wanted to minimize his presence on the trails. Very early on, LE was asking if anyone noticed a person walking on the roads in that general area.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I think where we saw the flashes is where the girls were found. I think the white thing nearer the cemetery is likely the forensic tent on slightly more level ground or even the coroners vehicle. MOO

It isn't near the cemetery. It is about 800 feet from it as the crow flies.

To allow you (and others) to maybe get a better perspective of what the area there looks like the following link will take you to a map of the bridge area on IndianaMap.org (not easy to use) where there are all kinds of GIS and data sets available. The two I have set up are the best available imagery (2011) and the LIDAR view of the same area. On the left of the map there the active layers should be shown. The layer I have on top is the Imagery Layer. To see the LIDAR layer (to see what the terrain looks like without the trees in the way) click on the up arrow to the right of the LIDAR layer. To toggle between the two of these layers just hit the up arrow next to the 2nd layer listed.

IndianaMAP

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Yes, I’ve considered that and it’s certainly possible. But the new sketch implies someone young enough that I have a really hard time comprehending that he would not be aware of cloud data. But as good a theory as any I’ve come up with!

So if they weren’t aware of cloud data then I think that actually helps narrow the pool of suspects- what types of people would be young and yet not aware of cloud data? Not sure I have an answer to that but I’d start with being less suspicious of perhaps college guys, people who work in tech jobs, tv personalities, teachers...etc. I’m assuming this is all part of the FBI profile they’ve come up with and that LE has considered that bent.

All theories should be on the table until LE says otherwise.

My apologies, I should have clarified what I meant about the perp not counting on cloud data being available, I didn't intend to imply that the perp wasn't aware of cloud data. That was my mistake.

What I should have said is that not everyone has their phone set to back up their data to a cloud (including me when I had my purse and phone stolen and learned my lesson by losing over a years worth of family videos and photos.) If you are an individual who doesn't have their phone set to backup, you may assume that others don't as well.

JMO