Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #111

Discussion in 'Located Persons Discussion' started by Tricia, Apr 22, 2019.

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  1. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    ETA: I asked myself a few questions.

    One, everyone says he is from Delphi because he knows the area so well. In what scenario would he be not from Delphi and yet know it so well? (There are two, he grew up here, or he has the reason to come in here, occasionally).

    Two, he is well-trained in two things, killing, and not leaving traces. Luck of a hunter? Or something very different? (And did he plant the DNA, too?)

    Three, someone mentioned that he was not seen on any camera. Who can know how to avoid them?

    Four, the theme of “revenge” periodically pops up here. Either it is a psychotic local cat-fisher, but a person so angry would be leaving other traces. Dead, tortured, animals, for example. Yet this crime came out as a complete surprise. Is he non-local? Or he simply needed to eliminate the girls for a reason that had nothing to do with his feelings? Then what was the motive?

    And then, I can imagine Libby, technology-savvy, with her wide interests and hobbies, she could have run into something near the bridge and did not understand what it was. Or took it for something from their usual game. And she could be persuaded to return it back, still not understanding what it was.

    And now that DNA does not match anyone, I guess.
     


  2. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    I used to live at Midwest in the 90es. The safest place ever. Now I am reading that the same area I used to reside in is heavily meth-infested. For a while, I rented a room from a truck driver. He was not on meth. I am scared to think of what that area has morphed into.

    I don’t know what meth used to be when manufactured as a pharmaceutical, but today, it makes people psychotic. In one Canadian metropolis that made the decision to allow drug use in their downtown, I saw a guy high on meth aggressively attacking a bus. (God knows what he saw in front of him).

    So assume meth involvement in most crimes, and a family pizza place running a meth joint is no surprise, either. However, heavy meth users are usually too disorganized to leave no traces, they seem to be in another world.
     
  3. Handsome Sailor

    Handsome Sailor Seize the day!

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    no, no meth involved. I think meth users get screwed up in head. this perp seemed too cool and collected.
     
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  4. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    Do you think a witness is the killer? Or ex LE? I can't think that anyone else could have steered LE in a wrong direction. MOO
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  5. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    Thank you to Charlot123 for answering my question about smartphone reset. I thought of something earlier before I asked the reset question because I had reread a source that included the reset. Could it be possible that the killer contacted Libby on social media through her cell phone? Maybe not even contacted just kind of lurked. She would not necessarily know about the lurking. So, killer plans this murder with one of he girls as the target. He knows he can be found if LE deep searches Libby's phone. How easily he could send a virus to the phone causing it to malfunction to the degree that Libby chooses to reset it. That reset would have wiped out the information on the phone and , therefore, his presence and history of following her. I know this is a way-out-there scenario.
     
  6. pearl

    pearl Well-Known Member

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    I don't think a witness is the one who may have given bogus info. Let me see if I can explain my thoughts. NBG sketch was actually drawn close in time to the crime from interviews with witness(es). Where did OBG sketch come from? I can't remember. Who made the decision to go with the first released drawing? Who gave info that caused LE to shelve that first drawing? We don't know these answers. I think if we knew who was responsible for the release of the first sketch, we would be very close to knowing who is the killer. LE does have this info. This is one reason I do believe that they KNOW who is the killer. Hope that makes sense.
     
  7. Handsome Sailor

    Handsome Sailor Seize the day!

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    not really
     
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  8. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    They said that OBG sketch was a composite from several witnesses IIRC. So it is a bit of a mystery how several witnesses would be wrong or could mislead, isn't it?
     
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  9. MingyMoo

    MingyMoo Former Member

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    Funnily enough I found myself going down this rabbit hole yesterday.

    @Charlot123 (I think) To the poster who was talking drops etc. I have always thought the girls were witness unknowingly/innocently to another crime or clandestine meeting of some sort. I also must admit the new sketch does now look Mediterranean/Hispanic/ IMHO

    I can think of numerous reasons why we were asked to forget old BG below is one of them.

    MIT researchers trained a machine learning model to reconstruct a very rough likeness of someone’s face based only on a short audio clip
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
  10. Torch Carrier

    Torch Carrier Well-Known Member

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    Maybe two false witnesses corroborated to lend credence to their bogus claims?
     
  11. tresir2012

    tresir2012 Former Member

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    This is copied from the media thread as to why and how the OBG sketch was issued. (There is a mis speak at one point where the officer states suspects instead of witnesses.)


    We're here to talk a little bit about the release that was put out so I'm just basically gonna open it up to questions. I will tell you now, most the information that you have in the news release is about all that can be released at this time, so there's not gonna be anything else real, um exciting that is going to be put out there but I will be happy to take questions and we'll go from there.

    Q. How did you have an artist develp this sketch and is the sketch made with the help of eye witness or eye witnesses, or was it made solely from the other picture we have seen?

    A. Basically, I can't really answer that question completely. I can tell you it came from the investigations itself, from officers looking into things, to tips and leads that have come in, that people have come forward, we got information from there, and the composite was put together with that information.

    Q. Why release the sketch released just today? Did you just get finished, have other people seen this, including the family, now just the right time to release it?

    A. This picture was release at this time because we felt it needed to come out, the information needs to be put forward, and we wanted to get it out there so people can look at it, and it has, it has taken a while to get this thing put together and that's why it's taken so long to get the picture out.

    Q. In the realm of evidence and leads that you have, how big is this photograph, how much are you counting on this artist's sketch, or photograph of the sketch?

    A. It's like anything else like this in a case. Anytime we get something new, or some information out there, we always feel it's important to the case. We feel this is very important because it actually give a better view of the perp, person in the picture that you see down below. It shows a little more facial features, it gives you a little more information on what we're looking at, who the suspect might be, and that's why we feel it's very important that this picture is out there at this time.

    Q. What's so striking about this? What is the thing that investigators look at and say “Wow, that's the thing that is gonna make the thing that is gonna make this guy stand out from all the other men walking around.”

    A. It's basically just a clearer picture of his face compared to what you saw down below. We've got the information out there, the pictures out there, now we've got this composite that we feel that is, we feel that is the same person, and we just want to make sure that people realize that picture is this person (ED: he's pointing BG, then to sketch) We're hoping that they can get that picture and take that picture and get us some information on a possible suspect.

    Q. How confident are you that this is accurate?

    A. We're pretty confident. The information was received, with that information we've been able to put that together. Again, this thing wasn't drawn up overnight. We've been working with this picture and with the suspects that we, excuse me, I mean the witnesses that we have, that we put this together so it's not something that we did overnight. This has taken awhile to put this together.

    Q. Those witness, did they see him in the area, or did they call the tip line with that information?

    A. I really can't go into that 'cause we don't want to compromise the case itself.

    Q. Well, when you say witnesses, so multiple people that helped you out?

    A. There were people that were able to help us out with this, yes.

    Q. A lot of people will say that you guys are releasing this because you are running out of leads, that's not true in this case, right?

    A. No, we are still getting anywhere from 5-10 tips a day. We are still getting emails, so it's not something that... this case is not dried up, it's not a cold case, this case if still very active.

    Q. If you had not received the tips, we might not have seen this picture in the first place, right?

    A. A possibility, yes

    Q. What is the attitude of the troops working on this? The fact that there is a composite that is infinitely clearer than the picture that we have been looking at. What is the feeling among the investigators that have been grinding away and working on this for months.

    A. Well, anytime that you get new information officers are always excited about that information. It kinda builds up their confidence on the case itself. With this information here, we're really, you know,
    it really excites them, lets them know that people are still caring about this case and people are still interested. And we can get somebody to come forward with more information, if we can get a name, or at least a location of this subject, that would be great, but officers have never really gotten down on this case. I think they've, they are flustrated maybe, but as far as solving this thing, it's something that's never, we've always thought like we would solve this case.

    Q. Who made sketch??? specific in here??? have you talked with those witnesses to come up with an exact look of this person?

    A. It's basically just been a cumulation of all the departments have come together and we have put this composite together.

    A. In the release you talk about not to focus on the hat, it may not be accurate. Can you talk a little about that so people at home …?

    A. As you can see, the original picture below it appears that he's got a hat on and it's got the flaps down
    and kind of down over the face. We want to make sure you focus on the picture. We want to make sure the face is what you are looking at and not worry about the hat even though the hat does is not quite the same as in the picture. We want the facial features, is what we want you to look at.

    Q. If someone does recognizes this person, what should they do?

    A. They can call the tip line, or they can email us.

    Q. In the release you mentioned some things exactly such as the hair color, can you talk about this at this time

    A. Basically, the hair color is a reddish brown. She was, the person was not clear on the color of the eyes, but sh.., the person said it was definitely not blue. She was very obvious..., the person was very obviously not blue eyes, but they did mention that they were not clear on what color it was.

    Q. So there are people out there who are sure that are sure they saw this guy walking around this day and they helped you out, it that?

    A. Pretty much that's what it is, yes.

    Q. Did those people come forward right away, or did it take a little time for those people to come forward.

    A. It's been a while. It took a little bit, people are scared, they are afraid to be recognized by the subject, so, it just takes a while for these things to happened. Like I said, the picture did not come overnight, we've been working on this for a while

    Q. To you think this guy is still around the Delphi area, or you think he's in a different state?

    A. That's what I hope this is all about.

    Q. We've heard many times that somebody out there probably knows something, and is really driving home the point today to make sure you call no mater how little it may be, especially if you recognize this person.?

    A. That's what we want, we want people to call in and give us information. Anybody that can give us an identification on this subject, or knows where the subject might be, that would be great, we would appreciate any information that we can get.

    Q. So still have that voice, and you've posted that picture, and you have this other. So really three pieces of solid evidence that people can work with so that's gotta be a big development for the community today.

    A. That is correct. We are really excited about the information being put out there. The dectectives and all the investigators that are involved are just basically waiting for the phones to ring.

    Q. Will any more information or video be released from the cell phone that Libby had that day?

    A. There's....I'm not going to comment on that, I don't wanna compromise that case.

    Q. Just to be clear, do you know this man's identity and you are not releasing it, or you don't know who this guys identity?

    A. We want to know who he is.

    Q. Do you know.???.county and I know you said that....??? somebody around this area knows who he is and will possibly call in... (Cannot understand)

    A. We are hoping somebody knows from wherever, we don't care where it's from, we just want to be able to find somebody that can identify this subject and can give us information on him.

    Q. Any search warrants that are going to come now that you have released this person's picture, anything else developing after you put this picture out today?

    A. We gotta just do the investigation at that point in time and see what happens

    Anything else..............

    THE END"
     
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  12. distracted

    distracted Well-Known Member

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  13. MingyMoo

    MingyMoo Former Member

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    Hiya @tresir2012 Many thanks for the above I am probably being a bit lazy here and hope you can help and point me in the direction of transcript above. Most of the PCs I have listened to have been barely audible as far as questions from the press. As I say thanks for the above much appreciated.

    MingyMoo
     
  14. CrimeDawg123

    CrimeDawg123 Well-Known Member

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    Um, many posts later, gonna take that as a no...
     
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  15. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I don't think he looks Hispanic, either. "Hispanic" is a very loose term, anyhow, however, Latin America is geographically far from the Med. I think BG's hair is dark and the structure of the face and body is more typical for the Mediterranean area. (I am speaking about BG from the video). I use it descriptively.

    He could be anyone, of course. But the guy on the video is very far from the YBG on the sketch.
     
  16. StarryStarryNight

    StarryStarryNight Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the clarification. It’s an interesting theory and anything is a possibility I think. All scenarios are welcome here! All of them add to the discussion.
    Personally I think it might not be so complicated. Someone who knows the area could be anybody from a former resident, a hunter or a practicing serial killer who chooses certain “killing areas” that seem like good places where victims can be isolated and killed. Maybe he visits them occasionally looking for an opportunity.
    I concede, and I didn’t at first, the girls may have been killed because they knew something, but I don’t believe it was anything they saw that day at the trails. Just my opinion. They could have been targeted, evidenced by no one seems particularly concerned about their safety. I’m not convinced about either thought though.
    The killer could have destroyed DNA evidence. It’s been discussed. I’m not sure it would take any special training to know how to do that.
    I haven’t really given the phone much thought, but you have brought up some interesting things about it so I think I need to ponder a bit on it.
    Thanks again for the info!
     
  17. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    If there is literally a meth business every couple of miles, then the whole area is saturated with users, pushers and people who look the other way. The damage is extensive and probably pervades all the church groups and schools as well.
     
  18. Boxer

    Boxer Well-Known Member

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    Dark German is how I see him.
    Thinner than the video appearance, with lots of lots of quick movements.
    Looking out from under his brow as I think he does toward Libby looks very integral
    to his personality.
     
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  19. Charlot123

    Charlot123 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it is probably not difficult to get rid of the DNA on/around the bodies. There may be some DNA left where the person was waiting for them, or on his escape route, and that DNA can be amplified. However, the scene of the search was so contaminated that it made whatever DNA LE have unusable in court.

    ETA: I don't think it is something they saw that day on the trails that made them witnesses. I think such woody areas + bridges are convenient for exchanges of different sorts, not necessarily dead drops, it was the first idea that came to my mind, but it can be something else. We are prohibited to mention Libby's "geographic" interest, but people with such hobbies can accidentally run into something and think it belongs to their hobby, you know? Instead, it was left by someone else, and meant for someone different.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  20. Maybe a "witness", who wasn't a witness at all but the killer. Maybe, ex LE plays also a part, directly or indirectly. MOO
     
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