Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #113

[Deleted member 102539]

Well @tresir....if you really want to go there .....some people have made a point of stating that they believe that part of Abby's sweater is visible in the far left of this photo.

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I personally cannot offer an opinion on this.

I may offer my opinion on that. Yes, with first pictures in the news there was something seen and it had the color of Abby's jacket, I swear. Just like there was something less seen, where the fanny pack was discovered later on. First I saw something brown like the tip of a flanel-shirt. A little later there was a right hand to be seen, which was holding something small white/light with thumb and index finger. Some time later, this again faded into only a brown fanny pack. - If we would have only news on paper like in good old times, nobody would be able to take these images away in the course of an investigation. All texts and images were saved forever - that would be nice, IMO. (Finding the old newspapers would be quite another problem )

 

[tresir2012]

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See the orange arrow. Looks also like a person for me.

I think these have all been debunked by various sources too.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I think these have all been debunked by various sources too.

I know, yes. But it came up again ....

 

[Justice101]

Each one is a separate incident taken at a different angle. What was applied in one can’t be applied to all three. North is always going to be north, but compare the video and the SC. Both are supposed to have been taken facing the entrance to the bridge. Libby was not on the same side of the bridge when she took the pictures and the angle of the bridge is reversed.

This is blowing my mind BTW. AW and BG WERE walking towards the end of the bridge - The same direction at different times right?

I've been on bridges like that... you sort of meander back and forth forward and backward , side to side looking at things. JMO

 

[ScotsPaddy]

Nobody and I repeat nobody even the most sadistic, sexual deviant predator is attacking 2 people at the same time without knowing who their victims/target are.

Unless that persons is intoxicated maybe?, first thing i thought when i watched the video was that the guy was drunk, the way he goes to put his right foot down.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

The "BG is back in the woods" deal has been debunked by MSM and other sources. I don't know why this is coming up, again.

Besides, why would Libby include a random person in the background of a photo she was taking of Abby?

Not trying to be snarky or what have you, but this has been discussed here ad nauseum.

Thank you!! I was wondering why this was coming up again.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

I know, yes. But it came up again ....

And again...and again...and again...
I think we all are desperate for an arrest.

 

[BigTexas]

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See the orange arrow. Looks also like a person for me.

In one of those pictures, if there is a person there, it looks like he is wearing a blue coat. Interesting. I wonder if the twist in this case is that there were 2-3 men that were in on it. One that committed the crime and one or two others who were dressed just like the one who did it to throw the police off. Think about it. If a witness remembers seeing a guy in a blue jacket who was dressed like the guy in Libby's video, it could be leading the cops astray as the man the witness saw was an accomplice and not the murderer. Then the cops have to figure out which guy that was dressed just like one or two other guys, was the one who did it, "beyond a reasonable doubt." MOO

 

[gitana1]

Nobody and I repeat nobody even the most sadistic, sexual deviant predator is attacking 2 people at the same time without knowing who their victims/target are.

That's not actually true. There have been a few sexual predators and serial killers/murderers who have kidnapper and lured two people at once. True they often stake them out first but not always. Sometimes it's hitchhikers or they come across kids randomly walking or playing.

Here's one:

https://www-m.cnn.com/2011/12/09/ju...rls/index.html?r=https://www.google.com/&rm=1

 

[sunshineray]

In the background the trail is straight for several hundred feet, then would have a gradual turn to fhe left, the spot where the girls were dropped off is on the curve. Then the trail heads west paralleling C. R. 300.

My hunch is the girls passed BG on the trail, which is about a quarter mile long. He already knew noone was ahead of the girls, and Kelsi mentioned in recent months noone was at the parking area/drop off point. So BG was, in my words, loitering and waiting for someone to follow and eventually attack.

JMO

-FD

What's confusing me about this trail is not only the girls but CE also walked onto this bridge. Did CE also take pictures from the "trail's end" side and then recrossed back over to the official trail (meaning the trail deemed safe by the town)? What about FSG, did he also walk the bridge (he was walking a dog right?) or was he on a different trail that only gave him ear/eye shot of one side of the high bridge?

People say north side, south side, throw in a west and east and I get so disoriented I can't pinpoint where they mean half the time.

The girls started off right near the Mary Gerard Nature Reserve off of W 300 N, is that correct? So they approached the Monon High Bridge from the north side of the creek (where they were also found) and crossed over to the south side where there is no longer a trail.

Did I get all that correct? TIA anyone brave enough to help this jumbled mind.

 

[gitana1]

Respectfully, what you described was simply mistaking another car for your car.

This is the definition of "confirmation bias" quoted from Britannica -
Confirmation bias, the tendency to process information by looking for, or interpreting, information that is consistent with one's existing beliefs.

The problem I have with the first post, aside from politics being dragged in, is that it presumes one cannot form an independent thought, which is absurd.

ETA: This will be my last comment on the subject so we can get back to Libby and Abby.

No. What the poster described fits. They expects to find their car at that location and so processed what they were seeing in a certain way as a result and saw their car despite it being a different make and model.

That's an example.

And no one is bringing politics into this. That was just another example. That other example isn't being connected to this case.

 

[almagata]

Nobody and I repeat nobody even the most sadistic, sexual deviant predator is attacking 2 people at the same time without knowing who their victims/target are.

We have had quite a number of mass shootings in the past ten years or so where the killers have targeted strangers.

Managing multiple people is not that difficult when you have a weapon. Just look at bank and other robbery situations.

Most people will comply in the hopes that they won't be killed.

 

[Boxer]

You are suggesting that people are incapable of independent thought.

To have independent thought the thinker must account for their own conformation bias, kind of like the wind on a golf shot.

 

[tresir2012]

Found it, thanks.

But im still not sure after seeing the image(s) that it is/was the alleged deer stand in the photograph that was circled red. Am i missing something?

No you're not missing anything. If the dark blob was BG I had wondered if he was up high 'cos he was in that stand as we don't know exactly where it was. Now I have seen that GH/JM video I don't think it's BG as I think the blob is just a tree.

 

[Falling Down]

What's confusing me about this trail is not only the girls but CE also walked onto this bridge. Did CE also take pictures from the "trail's end" side and then recrossed back over to the official trail (meaning the trail deemed safe by the town)? What about FSG, did he also walk the bridge (he was walking a dog right?) or was he on a different trail that only gave him ear/eye shot of one side of the high bridge?

My understanding is CE walked across the bridge and then back across it, at some point. Not sure about times and what have you. CE was there about an hour, give or take. The main trail which leads to the bridge is on private property, far as I can tell. The lower Girard trail is on public lands, six acres (from public records I've seen).

Not sure where FSG walked to, my understanding is DG encountered him at or near to the fork in the trail, near to the bench and the drop off point.The fork where the main trail keeps going, and the Girard trail splits off and runs down to the creek side.

People say north side, south side, throw in a west and east and I get so disoriented I can't pinpoint where they mean half the time.

The girls started off right near the Mary Gerard Nature Reserve off of W 300 N, is that correct?

Yes.

So they approached the Monon High Bridge from the north side of the creek (where they were also found) and crossed over to the south side where there is no longer a trail.

Correct.

Did I get all that correct? TIA anyone brave enough to help this jumbled mind.

Yes, they walked from the north side of the creek to the south side, the bridge runs at an angle relative to the creek at that exact area where it runs, although it's confusing looking at it on maps with the bends in the creek. It's easy to get disoriented, it took me a little bit to get my sea legs with the orientations of their trip/walk, the Libby images, the Libby video, etc. I'm good with maps but it takes some looking at this case, where it happened, over and over and over, again.

Oh and BTW I made a big mistake in a post from last night, in the "Abby photo" uploaded to SC, from Libby's perspective the trail in the background goes straight and then curves to the right.

MOO is BG stayed back a bit to keep an eye on the trail closer to the drop off spot to see if the coast was clear, then started making his way towards the bridge to see how far long the girls were on the bridge. Then he sprung his trap, once they got close to the far (SE end) of the bridge.

JMO

-FD

 

[Cutiekitty]

I've been on bridges like that... you sort of meander back and forth forward and backward , side to side looking at things. JMO

I get that. Just trying to picture the angles in the pictures knowing how the bridge is laid out was giving me a headache.

I haven’t been on a bridge like that one and I never will. I don’t care how beautiful the scenery is.

 

[ScumbagTrav]

I get that. Just trying to picture the angles in the pictures knowing how the bridge is laid out was giving me a headache.

I haven’t been on a bridge like that one and I never will. I don’t care how beautiful the scenery is.

Im a pretty avid hiker...but even I would hesitate on that bridge. I dont think i would do it. Too high. Too narrow. Too rickety.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Unless that persons is intoxicated maybe?, first thing i thought when i watched the video was that the guy was drunk, the way he goes to put his right foot down.

Drunk, I think, but still very capable to have a certain very well-thought out plan to murder and to escape and let the police at a loss for years/forever. His plan worked brilliant - we have already October 2019 now! Perhaps previous murder plans, maybe in 2012, maybe in 2016, worked just as brilliant too (Idk, but I assume). And I think, every time alcohol played a role and made him ready to be sadistic for half an hour. MOO

 

[Cutiekitty]

Since the April PC I could never figure out how LE knew LG was videoing in selfie mode. Just figured it out tonight when looking at the SC pic and the BG still. It’s obvious. I feel kind of ridiculous right now.

 

[somequestions]

No. What the poster described fits. They expects to find their car at that location and so processed what they were seeing in a certain way as a result and saw their car despite it being a different make and model.

That's an example.

And no one is bringing politics into this. That was just another example. That other example isn't being connected to this case.

I always try to remember confirmation bias when I make a conclusion, although I have still made mistakes. I saw a story about a plane crash, Varig Flight 254, in which confirmation bias played a big role. Basically, the experienced captain got lost, but at the time up in the airplane he had no reason to believe that he was lost. So he followed clues to try to get him back on track which were the wrong clues(because in his mind he thought that he was generally going the right way).

I think that in the case of Abigail Williams and Liberty German confirmation bias is crucial to how the general public as well as the investigators look at the case. Among the general public I am sure there have probably been many sightings of the bridge guy. Some people may think he is young while others believe he is older. The sketch/video interpretation is based in part on that.

As of right now, I tend to think police are under the impression the killer has to be local and from the Delphi area because he knew about the Monon High Bridge trail and how to navigate it. Maybe there is more to it and the police know more than what they say, but I really do think they are basing the killer being local on the idea that the Monon High Bridge is something only locals or someone who has lived in Delphi would know about. And that is it.