Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #114

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Soooooo….what ever happened with the pizza shop owner who was arrested? One would think that at this point he would be ruled in or out, and since we have heard nothing, I'm going to guess ruled out or inconclusive. Which again supports my personal theory that they don't have DNA or if they do, it is not conclusive either because of the quality of it or the type (touch vs direct bodily fluid). This case is beyond frustrating.
 
Im sure this has been discussed before, but Gray Hughes presented a theory, that isnt genius, but laid out in a way that really seemed possible/probable.

He suggests Abby and Libby werent far on the bridge at all when they see BG approaching them. They keep looking back and he is still coming, and still coming. And youd have to wonder, being a kid on that bridge, why is he still coming this way? Why is he so motivated? Why is he so motivated? He's just hustling across and it must have been freaky. So Libby pulls out her phone, keeps it down low (no it was not selfie mode) as he keeps coming.

Gray then speculates that BG is holding a gun in his hand, under his jacket, and soon after the released video ends is the "Guys". Then BG walks past them at the end of the bridge. Libby is at the end, Abby behind her, because she is scared, he steps behind them after saying "hey guys" then he pulls out the gun and says "get down the hill." Then he aims with the gun the direction to go, and they go. And he is sure the camera is still recording the video which would only be useful audio at that point.
 
Mosit said:
This forum has turnt into explaining old theories about the case over and over and over qgain, having the same 2 arguments over and over again, it's quite obvious to see the police have messed this 1 up completely and they do not have a clue who it is, The t ip hasn't come in and that's what there counting on. It's crazy how the police messed up so bad they have everything they could ask for in a murder case and can't do a single thing, bringing out another sketch and dismissing the first one when they had the second one after 3 days. JuSt doesn't make sense
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^^^^ I'm afraid that is just a rookie guess on your part ^^^ Nobody here knows what LE has and doesn't have. . that's a fact.
 
MJPeony said:
Speaking of the phone, I can’t help but feel the fact DH could still get through to a ring on LG’s phone 3:14 (per Foreigner’s timeline in media thread), but it went straight to voicemail at 3:30 is somehow significant. It would be a huge coincidence IMO that her phone battery happened to die in the 15 minutes after someone starts calling her and looking for her. I do not think it’s a coincidence.

My best theory is that the perp heard the phone ringing, and I think he turned it off. I think he left the phone because he was savvy enough to know it could be traced to him if he took it. And I don’t think he knew they’d captured his image and voice or that would have made him take it regardless.

The significance of the phone going to vm by 3:30 (if the battery just didn’t coincidentally die) is that it would place BG still at the scene as late as 3:14. Thus affecting the potential timeline of his escape, potential reliable witness sightings, and the escape route.

MOO.
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After DG called BP and told her LG wasn't answering her phone. I believe BP also rang/texted LG's phone possibly between the 3:14 and 3:30 time frame. Does anyone know exactly when BP's first communication to Libby's phone was?
 
ScumbagTrav said:
Im sure this has been discussed before, but Gray Hughes presented a theory, that isnt genius, but laid out in a way that really seemed possible/probable.

He suggests Abby and Libby werent far on the bridge at all when they see BG approaching them. They keep looking back and he is still coming, and still coming. And youd have to wonder, being a kid on that bridge, why is he still coming this way? Why is he so motivated? Why is he so motivated? He's just hustling across and it must have been freaky. So Libby pulls out her phone, keeps it down low (no it was not selfie mode) as he keeps coming.

Gray then speculates that BG is holding a gun in his hand, under his jacket, and soon after the released video ends is the "Guys". Then BG walks past them at the end of the bridge. Libby is at the end, Abby behind her, because she is scared, he steps behind them after saying "hey guys" then he pulls out the gun and says "get down the hill." Then he aims with the gun the direction to go, and they go. And he is sure the camera is still recording the video which would only be useful audio at that point.
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I've never heard Gray say that the girls weren't far on the bridge when BG was approaching.They were at the end of the south side when he came upon them.It's evident in the video's he has done as well.
 
LunaticFringe said:
I've never heard Gray say that the girls weren't far on the bridge when BG was approaching.They were at the end of the south side when he came upon them.It's evident in the video's he has done as well.
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Sorry, allow me to clarify...he says they werent far when they first saw him approaching them on the bridge....then a few minutes later suggests about halfway...then they walked to the end....where BG caught up with them, and hes 20 yards away when Libby begins filming.
 
Cutiekitty said:
I still think the video was in selfie mode. Im just not sure about the need to zoom in since they might’ve been much closer to each other than I thought.

After rewatching the (February 2017) video I realized that what I was looking at (the pic showing a good portion of the side of the bridge) wasn’t a still from the video, but something that was created by GH. Then I watched another of GHs videos (March 2018) and he had their placement much further apart BG was north of the platform and LG was off the end of the bridge. I thought there was actually another more recent video where GH really got into the weeds about where they were during the video, but I haven’t found it yet.

Basically, I’m just not sure where they were on the bridge that day now so I’ve retired my theory. It was exciting till I had to torpedo it.
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Here's why I don't think she zoomed in. Assuming the girls were right off the end of the bridge, BG was only about 60 feet away, according to GH's measurements (which I agree with). I've stepped that distance off and looked through my phone's camera. Zooming in at that distance would make it much harder to capture him in the frame, especially if she was trying to be somewhat discreet about it. JMO, of course. :)
 
ScumbagTrav said:
Im sure this has been discussed before, but Gray Hughes presented a theory, that isnt genius, but laid out in a way that really seemed possible/probable.

He suggests Abby and Libby werent far on the bridge at all when they see BG approaching them. They keep looking back and he is still coming, and still coming. And youd have to wonder, being a kid on that bridge, why is he still coming this way? Why is he so motivated? Why is he so motivated? He's just hustling across and it must have been freaky. So Libby pulls out her phone, keeps it down low (no it was not selfie mode) as he keeps coming.

Gray then speculates that BG is holding a gun in his hand, under his jacket, and soon after the released video ends is the "Guys". Then BG walks past them at the end of the bridge. Libby is at the end, Abby behind her, because she is scared, he steps behind them after saying "hey guys" then he pulls out the gun and says "get down the hill." Then he aims with the gun the direction to go, and they go. And he is sure the camera is still recording the video which would only be useful audio at that point.
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If the Snapchat picture time is correct as 2:07 pm then they were at least to platform three by the time BG made his move. I agree he then cornered them at the end of the bridge. I agree with those that think he knew the area very well even he cruised regularly looking for target rich areas.
 
ScumbagTrav said:
Sorry, allow me to clarify...he says they werent far when they first saw him approaching them on the bridge....then a few minutes later suggests about halfway...then they walked to the end....where BG caught up with them, and hes 20 yards away when Libby begins filming.
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So why wasn't he in the 2.07 p.m. SC photo then?

Could you link to the GH source video you are quoting from so we can view it?
 
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sunshineray said:
After DG called BP and told her LG wasn't answering her phone. I believe BP also rang/texted LG's phone possibly between the 3:14 and 3:30 time frame. Does anyone know exactly when BP's first communication to Libby's phone was?
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I think as you say, when she didn't answer DG called BP to tell her they weren't at the pick up and Libby wasn't answering so BP called straightaway (from 3.15 onwards) and kept calling and it kept going to answerphone from then on. MOO.
 
MJPeony said:
Speaking of the phone, I can’t help but feel the fact DH could still get through to a ring on LG’s phone 3:14 (per Foreigner’s timeline in media thread), but it went straight to voicemail at 3:30 is somehow significant. It would be a huge coincidence IMO that her phone battery happened to die in the 15 minutes after someone starts calling her and looking for her. I do not think it’s a coincidence.

My best theory is that the perp heard the phone ringing, and I think he turned it off. I think he left the phone because he was savvy enough to know it could be traced to him if he took it. And I don’t think he knew they’d captured his image and voice or that would have made him take it regardless.

The significance of the phone going to vm by 3:30 (if the battery just didn’t coincidentally die) is that it would place BG still at the scene as late as 3:14. Thus affecting the potential timeline of his escape, potential reliable witness sightings, and the escape route.

MOO.
Click to expand...
I also have questions in my mind about the phone ringing and then going dead right then. One thing that gives me pause is that DG said he first called her at 3:11, then again at 3:14. If the phone's ringer was turned on, BG would have heard the first call, too, wouldn't he? And stomped on it, or tossed it into the water, or something then. IDK

I also wonder if all the SCing, videoing, and recording the girls did that day didn't use up most the batteries, and those incoming calls just used up the rest. Coincidental, yes...
 

This is a Gray Hughes early video of the flow of the crime. It is very good at demonstrating where the girls were, where the suspect was and how to get to the crime scene. The topography of the area is also well demonstrated.

Not too long either. Music is a bit spooky.
 
TL4S said:
I also have questions in my mind about the phone ringing and then going dead right then. One thing that gives me pause is that DG said he first called her at 3:11, then again at 3:14. If the phone's ringer was turned on, BG would have heard the first call, too, wouldn't he? And stomped on it, or tossed it into the water, or something then. IDK

I also wonder if all the SCing, videoing, and recording the girls did that day didn't use up most the batteries, and those incoming calls just used up the rest. Coincidental, yes...
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Yeah, it just seems too coincidental to me. The timing was so so very precise. Happens to go dead right after her Dad has just been calling her.

As for why BG didn’t deal with it (power off, crush it, etc) after the first call at 3:11, IMO it’s either because he wasn’t physically able to- maybe still in the process of killing- or he didn’t care if it rang once, only once it was clear someone was trying to reach her did it concern him.

I’ve gone back and forth so many times with my theories with this case, but one thing I come back to is the possibility BG was still at the crime scene right as DG was arriving to get the girls. (No need for us to rehash the minute by minute timeline to try to figure out how much time he had, etc.... I think we’ve established it would be a very tight timeline but certainly possible).

Anyway, IMO it’s not a coincidence the phone powered off/lost the battery at the time it did.

All MOO.
 
MJPeony said:
Yeah, it just seems too coincidental to me. The timing was so so very precise. Happens to go dead right after her Dad has just been calling her.

As for why BG didn’t deal with it (power off, crush it, etc) after the first call at 3:11, IMO it’s either because he wasn’t physically able to- maybe still in the process of killing- or he didn’t care if it rang once, only once it was clear someone was trying to reach her did it concern him.

I’ve gone back and forth so many times with my theories with this case, but one thing I come back to is the possibility BG was still at the crime scene right as DG was arriving to get the girls. (No need for us to rehash the minute by minute timeline to try to figure out how much time he had, etc.... I think we’ve established it would be a very tight timeline but certainly possible).

Anyway, IMO it’s not a coincidence the phone powered off/lost the battery at the time it did.

All MOO.
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Yeah I think so. What time did FSG see BG?
 
Kittybunny said:
Soooooo….what ever happened with the pizza shop owner who was arrested? One would think that at this point he would be ruled in or out, and since we have heard nothing, I'm going to guess ruled out or inconclusive. Which again supports my personal theory that they don't have DNA or if they do, it is not conclusive either because of the quality of it or the type (touch vs direct bodily fluid). This case is beyond frustrating.
Click to expand...

I forgot all about him.
 
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