Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[Charlot123]

I have one question after listening to RI.

- when he says, “strange” about the bodies, does he mean, the CS looked as if it was personal, or not at all?

I get the same feeling, that the killer knew of them, but they did not necessarily recognize him as someone they were familiar with. I lean toward the killer being somehow associated with one of the families. I keep coming back to Tobe Leazenby's statement that the community will be "shocked" when the killer is arrested. Leads me to believe he's local and for whatever reason, respected in the community. A number of statements made at the April PC and subsequently, seem to indicate that LE know who the killer is, which likely means they don't have what they need to convict or he'd already be behind bars. A lot of crime scene evidence does not necessarily equate to linking that evidence directly to the killer. Remember, there's a "twist", whatever that is. Worse, is that for 2 plus years they were on the wrong "trail" (pun intended). Lots of catching up to do.

You know, maybe it doesn't have to be someone "respected" after all. If it's someone with connections to a family member of one of the girls, that would certainly be shocking as well. All JMHO

And these are big families, blended families, too. Lots and lots of people.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Those pictures require a sign up which I don't wish to do so could you screenshot them directly into here or post them from the source if they are MSM? If they are your own pictures I think that is allowed but you may need the ok from a mod first.

Here is the entire album. Those photos are included. It's easier for me to do it this way than to figure out how to post directly to the thread:

https://tinyurl.com/tssdaaw

 

[Awsi Dooger]

See below for an illustration of the lack of hat when the offender comes into focus. The hat effect is an important distinction because propagating its legitimacy maintains part of the illusion this offender is using to hide right now. You have to see his hair because it's part of his identity, and it still looks this way.

The camera was trying to capture motion smoothly. If there is a fringe of hoodie, the piping that hides the seams, behind the offender's head while he's walking, if unable to focus, the camera will interleave frames in a manner that doesn't introduce jagginess and timing issues. It is interpreting the scene and the result is the piping of that hoodie will occasionally appear superimposed with the offender's head in a manner that makes it look like he is wearing a hoodie.

That is borderline laughable. You are taking the one interpretation among thousands that will remove the hat or hoodie. That is exactly the worst type of analysis. You are angling the head at just your desired angle and patching just the one singular hairstyle to strain to make it fit. Those of us who see the rim aren't forced into any type of manipulations like that. We are not desperately relying on one frame only. We see the rim because there is indeed a rim.

Let's just say I wish you made the daily betting lines. There would be bargains galore.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

Also, I’ve seen all of the pics and videos and I will never believe that is just hair.

It is familiar hocus pocus in a case like this. Don't allow the low percentage types to overrule base logic. In every unsolved high profile case it becomes an industry to betray conventional wisdom with some far flung theory. That's why I miss being in Las Vegas daily. In that realm the outlier theories are rejected and ridiculed for what they are: Oh, so you want to patch just the correct amount of absurdly thick hair at just the proper angle and color to somewhat cooperate with your one cherry-picked photo frame, while ignoring everything else subsequent and prior? Well isn't that special. Here, have a cookie.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I keep going back to my feeling that this was a stranger crime. Like he was there that day prowling for a victim, perhaps, but didn't know who it would or could be.

Don't say that hesitantly. It is a huge favorite. Naturally when a case is unsolved for this length there will be any and all rationalizations to tie the victims and perpetrator together, in some fashion.

Meanwhile think of the new reality for an aspiring offender: Cameras everywhere. So no kidding they will seek out areas without cameras. I'm afraid we'll see more stranger on stranger crimes in hiking areas, etc.

I've posted enough tonight. Apologies for my tone in a couple of comments. That hair topic admittedly irks me in this case. I don't mind low percentage flails. I do mind when the low percentage types don't recognize all the variables and reasons that slot their version into such severe longshot status.

 

[Ozoner]

I have one question after listening to RI.

- when he says, “strange” about the bodies, does he mean, the CS looked as if it was personal, or not at all?

The known circumstances of the crime make it clear that the victims were selected because they were the ones who had the misfortune of checking the boxes on BG's want list and walking into his trap at the right time. The murders were not personal.
-
"Odd" could mean that the crime scene was staged. Maybe BG wanted to trick LE into thinking that the crime was committed by a crazed meth head (or a schizophrenic religious fanatic, or whatever). The odd elements might not say anything about BG except that he stages his crime scenes.

 

[Torch Carrier]

AD- Some of your above comments are quite unkind. Not liking that here. Just saying on behalf of myself and many friends here. Rudeness like that has no place here. Lame apology not accepted.

 

[sunsetbeach]

I'm not real familiar with podcasts. On that teaser they said, make sure you get your subscription. Do you have to sign up to listen? Is there a fee? TIA

No fee to listen. You can subscribe to be notified of new episodes when they are released.

 

[stattlich1]

The known circumstances of the crime make it clear that the victims were selected because they were the ones who had the misfortune of checking the boxes on BG's want list and walking into his trap at the right time. The murders were not personal.

Ya made me go back and re-read this for the millionth time....

"We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age. Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight."

If indeed the murders were not personal, it sure does make it tough for me to believe all parties involved were absolute strangers in light of the quoted remarks from the presser.

One thing I noticed this time around, reading those quotes above, is that past tense was used in that last line.

OTOH, the quoted lines above may very well play in to the murders not being personal, as the killer may have knowledge of the area based on having lived there, and chose the bridge area due to his familiarity with it, and indeed did not know A&L at all.

Each that comes here to read and/or post, I believe, does so with the common goal of solving this case. These girls, and their families, deserve justice.

 

[Torch Carrier]

Stat- To me this "were" perhaps WAS "are" ... if you read the sentence with either one they oft sound so alike. Maybe it was changed in transcription??

(Reminds me of a convo regarding what the definition of "is" is ... LOL!)

 

[FrostedGlass]

Here is a quote from an Aug 14, 2017 Holeman interview (in the video at the end of the article), which some believed to mean your brother or father could be the person who was probably going to kill again.

I did not take it that way; I took it to mean BG could kill anyone, regardless of sex. If the person he kills next could be a male, then we need to re-think motives. IMO

@ mm 8:48:
" ...I still believe somebody knows, somebody knows what happened and for whatever reason they won't come forward.. uhm.. and we wish they would, obviously, because this person's probably going to do this again and I'd hate for that to happen to you or your loved ones....and that's the message I want to get out to the public is if you do know, for sure you need to let us know so ...we can possibly stop this from happening again to your daughter or your mother or sister or anybody, it could be your brother or father as well."

Lead detective in Delphi murders confirms police have more audio from phone, DNA evidence

 

[susiQ]

And these are big families, blended families, too. Lots and lots of people.

SBM
This is true, but one would think that somebody out of those large blended families would have recognized that voice and submitted a tip. JMO

 

[Cryptic]

I feel doubtful the girls would arrange a meeting where support was needed in such an isolated location as the MHB. In town would be more likely for a meeting, IMO

I think if one looks at the totality of the circumstances, the choice of that area makes a lot of subjective sense. These circumstances can include:

- The meeting was not a business meeting between accountants. Rather, it could have been between young people who sought an isolated spot due to the subject matter of the meeting.

- The spot may well have been "the spot" for generations of local teens to meet to drink, smoke, conduct low level drug buys, make out with girl friends, break up with boyfriends and have "important" discussions that need to be done face to face.

Thus the spot is ideal subjectively ideal:
-Relatively isolated- less nosy adults, and police.
-Locally well known- less need to give detailed explanations as to where to meet.
-It is traditional- A lot of teens know that "important" teen meeting are often done at "the spot" because "the spot' is where to meet.

Sure, the last point is circular logic, but teens think that way. Heck, so do some national leaders.

 

[Boxer]

The known circumstances of the crime make it clear that the victims were selected because they were the ones who had the misfortune of checking the boxes on BG's want list and walking into his trap at the right time. The murders were not personal.
-
"Odd" could mean that the crime scene was staged. Maybe BG wanted to trick LE into thinking that the crime was committed by a crazed meth head (or a schizophrenic religious fanatic, or whatever). The odd elements might not say anything about BG except that he stages his crime scenes.

MOO Staging a CS is in and of its.elf is not odd.

Ya made me go back and re-read this for the millionth time....

"We also believe this person is from Delphi- currently, or has previously lived here, visits Delphi on a regular basis, or works here. We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age. Directly to the Killer, who may be in this room: We believe you were hiding in plain sight."

If indeed the murders were not personal, it sure does make it tough for me to believe all parties involved were absolute strangers in light of the quoted remarks from the presser.

One thing I noticed this time around, reading those quotes above, is that past tense was used in that last line.

OTOH, the quoted lines above may very well play in to the murders not being personal, as the killer may have knowledge of the area based on having lived there, and chose the bridge area due to his familiarity with it, and indeed did not know A&L at all.

Each that comes here to read and/or post, I believe, does so with the common goal of solving this case. These girls, and their families, deserve justice.

Another thing -

'We believe this person is currently between the age range of 18 and 40, but might appear younger than his true age."

That would be between the ages of 16 and 38 on 2/13/17.

 

[Fizzle]

I’m no longer a GH fan but will be listening to this 7 part series only to hear what the interviewees have to say.

I'm skeptical that there will be much new information or many new interviews... most of the clips from the promo we have heard before. But I hope that I am wrong.

 

[Fizzle]

I think if one looks at the totality of the circumstances, the choice of that area makes a lot of subjective sense. These circumstances can include:

- The meeting was not a business meeting between accountants. Rather, it could have been between young people who sought an isolated spot due to the subject matter of the meeting.

- The spot may well have been "the spot" for generations of local teens to meet to drink, smoke, conduct low level drug buys, make out with girl friends, break up with boyfriends and have "important" discussions that need to be done face to face.

Thus the spot is ideal subjectively ideal:
-Relatively isolated- less nosy adults, and police.
-Locally well known- less need to give detailed explanations as to where to meet.
-It is traditional- A lot of teens know that "important" teen meeting are often done at "the spot" because "the spot' is where to meet.

Sure, the last point is circular logic, but teens think that way. Heck, so do some national leaders.

I agree with you. If this was a meetup of some kind, the location makes sense to me for the reasons you mention. However, I can just as easily see it being "wrong place, wrong time" due to the fact that that location is relatively isolated and known to attract teens.

 

[Fizzle]

MOO is that the crime scene was odd and twisted but I would bet that it is due to true mental illness and depravity vs. feigned madness.

 

[Cryptic]

I agree with you. If this was a meetup of some kind, the location makes sense to me for the reasons you mention. However, I can just as easily see it being "wrong place, wrong time" due to the fact that that location is relatively isolated and known to attract teens.

I agree with you that the "wrong place / wrong time" possibility is equally plausible.

One thing that may increase this possibility is that apparently an extensive search of the teens social media activities did not reveal indications of a planned meeting

 

[HEY YOU!]

I agree with you that the "wrong place / wrong time" possibility is equally plausible.

One thing that may increase this possibility is that apparently an extensive search of the teens social media activities did not reveal indications of a planned meeting

So I think that means their killer is someone close to them who knew their plans or they used an app that does not keep track of their conversations. Also, odd that Libby just wiped her cell phone very recently. Very odd in my opinion.

 

[LovelyB]

Maybe LE does have some evidence on their social media accounts and activities, and that is a reason why they don’t want to ‘show their hand’. They said that the killer wants to know what they know, and one day he will.