Found Deceased IN - Abigail (Abby) Williams, 13, & Liberty (Libby) German, 14, The Delphi Murders 13 Feb 2017 #118

[JudgeJudi]

As a grandmother of 4 with an age range of 7-13, I can tell you that these SM apps bother me greatly. The dangers they pose are very real, and if you hark back to when you were a teenager, and that includes me, you’ll probably remember things you did and places you went to that your parents were completely unaware of and most certainly would have disapproved. Some things never change, one being that teens have a sense of infallibility and bad things happen to other kids, not them. My head spins when I look back now at the risks I took when I was 17-18, but today’s kids are using these dangerous apps from a very early age.

I was very shocked to learn of the dangers posed by the Kik app. In October, Kik was on the verge of shutting down but it was taken over by another company, MediaLab. Kik estimated that it had 275 million users worldwide, with 70% of them in the US. It’s not hard to imagine that the majority of parents were unaware of this, but even if they were, they possibly thought it was just another FB equivalent.

At the risk of sounding like a grandmother, lol, could I urge all parents with teenagers to read the following article.

Wildly Popular App Kik Offers Teenagers, and Predators, Anonymity

Unfortunately I don’t see any way of stopping them using apps like Kik. When I found out about it I had a long conversation with my daughter and I sent her the following video which is about Snapchat. Sure you can warn the kids, but what do parents know. None of her girls are allowed to take phones or devices into their bedroom at night. That’s a step in the right direction, but you can only have that sort of control at home. Once outside the house, it’s a totally different ballgame. This video is only 11:00. There may be better ones out there but I came across it by accident.

 

[Charlot123]

This is creepy! A good friend recently retired from the Everett police force. He
still has plenty of friends over there.
I will see what he knows. I didn’t realize we had a problem with cats being mutilated here in Everett. I’m going to worry about my little Jack Russell dog being outside at any length of time.
We definitely have a share of creepy individuals in the northwest.

Indeed we do. I read about a girl who disappeared from McDonald’s in Bellingham, and her remains were later found in Snohomish near the hiking trail, and another female hiker disappeared close by. LE even was concerned that a predator might have “a lair” there. But coming back to cats, yes, there was a slew of cases close to Olympia, and then they stopped, and now Everett started.

 

[stattlich1]

things you did and places you went to that your parents were completely unaware of

This plays in to my thought process when considering what may have happened in this case.

I spent 25 years working with youth, 20 of those in a local, rural, school district.

Whether a parent wishes to admit it or not, whether a parent thinks she/he knows what their child is all about, my experience tells me otherwise. My experience tells me there is a HUGE world operating outside the modern adult's vision, a world extremely difficult to penetrate.

And so, it stands to reason for me, that when A & L were headed to that bridge that day, the possibility of more than just a hike in the woods, to take some pictures, is extremely great, especially in light of the fact it was a day....off....school.

Just imagine, one TINY example, out of literally thousands of possibilities.....imagine a math test, given in school, 1st period, say, 8 a.m. HA! By 8:05 that entire test could be in the hands of kids taking it later in that day, not to mention, a photo of that test could be in the hands of kids in schools all over the world....yep, near instantaneously.

Sound far fetched? In our children's world today, they not only communicate with kids in their own school, or grade, but schools nearby, schools everywhere, people everywhere.

This was, for 25 years, my forte. It has been my life to work with teens. I know the breadth, and scope, of the communications networking available to us.....and them.

Now, is it that hard to imagine that someone may have known those girls plans for that day? Is it impossible to think there were other kids to be there? Is it out of the realm of possibility there was a meetup of some persuasion? Could there have been some reason they went there, other than to enjoy a nice February day?

Not to mention, assuming the absolute innocence of these girls, what about the vermin, the low life, the criminals, the druggies, the evil bastards, ALL of which obviously are NOT in short supply in the Delphi region.....am I to think THEY would not be attracted to the same bridge on a day such as this one?

All above is MOO, sorry for the long post.

 

[tresir2012]

But GK is sort of an alpha male. A stupid and meth-infused, but an alpha, or trying to be the one. His behavior, his fights, his need to assert himself, fights with other guys. Very different from BG. MOO.

How do we know the BG type though? An alpha male that attempts to strangle women and tortures and kills a young mother I would call a coward and a bully, wanting to be an alpha male but not succeeding. JMO

 

[tresir2012]

As a grandmother of 4 with an age range of 7-13, I can tell you that these SM apps bother me greatly. The dangers they pose are very real, and if you hark back to when you were a teenager, and that includes me, you’ll probably remember things you did and places you went to that your parents were completely unaware of and most certainly would have disapproved. Some things never change, one being that teens have a sense of infallibility and bad things happen to other kids, not them. My head spins when I look back now at the risks I took when I was 17-18, but today’s kids are using these dangerous apps from a very early age.

I was very shocked to learn of the dangers posed by the Kik app. In October, Kik was on the verge of shutting down but it was taken over by another company, MediaLab. Kik estimated that it had 275 million users worldwide, with 70% of them in the US. It’s not hard to imagine that the majority of parents were unaware of this, but even if they were, they possibly thought it was just another FB equivalent.

At the risk of sounding like a grandmother, lol, could I urge all parents with teenagers to read the following article.

Wildly Popular App Kik Offers Teenagers, and Predators, Anonymity

Unfortunately I don’t see any way of stopping them using apps like Kik. When I found out about it I had a long conversation with my daughter and I sent her the following video which is about Snapchat. Sure you can warn the kids, but what do parents know. None of her girls are allowed to take phones or devices into their bedroom at night. That’s a step in the right direction, but you can only have that sort of control at home. Once outside the house, it’s a totally different ballgame. This video is only 11:00. There may be better ones out there but I came across it by accident.

That was unbelievable that kids get taken in so easily. TY for posting that.

 

[JudgeJudi]

Whether a parent wishes to admit it or not, whether a parent thinks she/he knows what their child is all about, my experience tells me otherwise. My experience tells me there is a HUGE world operating outside the modern adult's vision, a world extremely difficult to penetrate.

I totally agree, and it's a world that didn't exist when I was a child or when my children were growing up.

 

[FrostedGlass]

OK. 13 cases in Thurston country and then it stopped. Now it started in Everett. Everett police give update on mutilated cat investigation

Everett is in Snohomish county. With its trails where the bodies of women who disappeared from Northern WA have been found.

I wonder if the LE ever cared to connect the two, murdered cats and murdered women?

The Everett LE updated their findings. Now they say the cats were killed by other animals; although they go on to say there is no indication as to what type of animals killed them.

 

[bradfordsleuth]

Recently, I came across this news item of a gas station robbery that took place in Delphi just a few days prior to Abby and Libby's murders.

That perp. was arrested and is in no way connected to the girls. Seeing this video got my mind racing though....

This a freeze frame of what the guy was wearing.



When I saw what the guy was wearing, I couldn't help but be struck by the way he is so covered up in a blue jacket, wearing a hoodie and with the lower part of his face covered.

It is similar to what I personally see in certain still shots of the video that Libby took of the killer on the bridge.

This is one example....(source is frame #4 of this frame by frame file) Images from the video : DelphiMurders





I have read (linked previously in these threads) that the man on the bridge was described by at least one witness as covering the lower part of his face with a scarf that day. We have discussed this possibility within these threads several times.

It's possible the killer saw this type of 'disguise' from the gas station video on the local news just days earlier and reminded by it, thought it could be a good idea for him to try a similar method of disguising himself to commit this crime.

I still believe that it was planned....but who the victims were going to be was not planned.

Anyhow....JMO and speculation.

 

[sunshineray]

As a grandmother of 4 with an age range of 7-13, I can tell you that these SM apps bother me greatly. The dangers they pose are very real, and if you hark back to when you were a teenager, and that includes me, you’ll probably remember things you did and places you went to that your parents were completely unaware of and most certainly would have disapproved. Some things never change, one being that teens have a sense of infallibility and bad things happen to other kids, not them. My head spins when I look back now at the risks I took when I was 17-18, but today’s kids are using these dangerous apps from a very early age.

I was very shocked to learn of the dangers posed by the Kik app. In October, Kik was on the verge of shutting down but it was taken over by another company, MediaLab. Kik estimated that it had 275 million users worldwide, with 70% of them in the US. It’s not hard to imagine that the majority of parents were unaware of this, but even if they were, they possibly thought it was just another FB equivalent.

At the risk of sounding like a grandmother, lol, could I urge all parents with teenagers to read the following article.

Wildly Popular App Kik Offers Teenagers, and Predators, Anonymity

Unfortunately I don’t see any way of stopping them using apps like Kik. When I found out about it I had a long conversation with my daughter and I sent her the following video which is about Snapchat. Sure you can warn the kids, but what do parents know. None of her girls are allowed to take phones or devices into their bedroom at night. That’s a step in the right direction, but you can only have that sort of control at home. Once outside the house, it’s a totally different ballgame. This video is only 11:00. There may be better ones out there but I came across it by accident.

I remember age 13 was the turning point with me as far as starting to do actions I knew my parents wouldn't like and I didn't care. It wasn't even that there was much angst between my parents and myself. It was just the call of the wild. I was lucky and I had a great family base like Abby and Libby. But all it took was a cousin a couple years older to urge me on. Abby and Libby had the whole SM scene to influence them. Kids have and will always push safety boundaries but internet kids are vulnerable like we never were...IMO. Tech can be a wonderful thing and a nightmare. I just get the feeling it was involved somehow with these murders.

 

[Skully]

If the girls were being tracked by BG, the FBI would be able to track him back to them. I don't think he had a phone or anything on him that could be GPS, traced or IP back to him. I think he was on the "hunt" and that was the day he found his prey. It was this lucky day and not their's. No disrespect intended. He came prepared as they all do. They carry stuff in the car, truck on them, so when the opportunity arises they are ready. I agree he knew the area, came from it or work in it or around it, maybe hunted there. I don't think he lives there through.

 

[Falling Down]

I remember age 13 was the turning point with me as far as starting to do actions I knew my parents wouldn't like and I didn't care. It wasn't even that there was much angst between my parents and myself. It was just the call of the wild. I was lucky and I had a great family base like Abby and Libby. But all it took was a cousin a couple years older to urge me on. Abby and Libby had the whole SM scene to influence them. Kids have and will always push safety boundaries but internet kids are vulnerable like we never were...IMO. Tech can be a wonderful thing and a nightmare. I just get the feeling it was involved somehow with these murders.

Safety boundaries like walking on things I probably shouldn't have, that bridge is fraught with danger but I can see myself having fun on an old bridge that's falling apart, at the age of 13 or 14.

JMO

 

[Falling Down]

If the girls were being tracked by BG, the FBI would be able to track him back to them. I don't think he had a phone or anything on him that could be GPS, traced or IP back to him. I think he was on the "hunt" and that was the day he found his prey. It was this lucky day and not their's. No disrespect intended. He came prepared as they all do. They carry stuff in the car, truck on them, so when the opportunity arises they are ready. I agree he knew the area, came from it or work in it or around it, maybe hunted there. I don't think he lives there through.

A agree 100% with this, my take is this set of crimes were random in nature, but BG targeted the bridge area for a fantasy he'd had for some time.

 

[book-thinker]

Indeed we do. I read about a girl who disappeared from McDonald’s in Bellingham, and her remains were later found in Snohomish near the hiking trail, and another female hiker disappeared close by. LE even was concerned that a predator might have “a lair” there. But coming back to cats, yes, there was a slew of cases close to Olympia, and then they stopped, and now Everett started.

The girl that disappeared from McDonald’s
and later found murdered near a hiking trail
in the mountains. I would imagine the killer
is someone local. The same as Abby and Libby’s killer.

It’s horrible what’s happening to the cats.

 

[StarryStarryNight]

If the girls were being tracked by BG, the FBI would be able to track him back to them. I don't think he had a phone or anything on him that could be GPS, traced or IP back to him. I think he was on the "hunt" and that was the day he found his prey. It was this lucky day and not their's. No disrespect intended. He came prepared as they all do. They carry stuff in the car, truck on them, so when the opportunity arises they are ready. I agree he knew the area, came from it or work in it or around it, maybe hunted there. I don't think he lives there through.

Pretty much my take too.

 

[sunshineray]

Safety boundaries like walking on things I probably shouldn't have, that bridge is fraught with danger but I can see myself having fun on an old bridge that's falling apart, at the age of 13 or 14.

JMO

And taking pictures of it and posting it on a SM where the evidence is soon deleted. So you get to brag and get kudos for your exploits with a wider audience than word of mouth, then your proof is gone.

All this exposure seduces these kids into thinking they have it all handled at such and early age. They crave good peer judgement just like we did. I saw it with my kids. The difference is instead of them venturing out into the jungle, the jungle comes right into their rooms via the internet, making it much more intimate and seeming that much safer to them.

Abby and Libby's murders could be just random, spur of the moment crimes by some opportunistic sick mind. More and more though, I think they were lured. AJMO

 

[Justice101]

The girl that disappeared from McDonald’s
and later found murdered near a hiking trail
in the mountains. I would imagine the killer
is someone local. The same as Abby and Libby’s killer.

It’s horrible what’s happening to the cats.

Where I live in Virginia, the coyote population has exploded. They kill cats and dogs and sometimes they don't eat them, they just kill them as a natural reaction.

 

[Justice101]

And taking pictures of it and posting it on a SM where the evidence is soon deleted. So you get to brag and get kudos for your exploits with a wider audience than word of mouth, then your proof is gone.

All this exposure seduces these kids into thinking they have it all handled at such and early age. They crave good peer judgement just like we did. I saw it with my kids. The difference is instead of them venturing out into the jungle, the jungle comes right into their rooms via the internet, making it much more intimate and seeming that much safer to them.

Abby and Libby's murders could be just random, spur of the moment crimes by some opportunistic sick mind. More and more though, I think they were lured. AJMO

For some reason, I still think BG knew the area well, probably was on and to the side of the trail a lot and knew it very very well. One week day.. he sees an opportunity of a young girl. He checks and the coast is clear in both directions and he makes his move. He moves them "down the hill" so that so new people coming along from the NW will spot them.

This guy HAD to be seen on that trail before that day.

 

[MingyMoo]

For some reason, I still think BG knew the area well, probably was on and to the side of the trail a lot and knew it very very well. One week day.. he sees an opportunity of a young girl. He checks and the coast is clear in both directions and he makes his move. He moves them "down the hill" so that so new people coming along from the NW will spot them.

This guy HAD to be seen on that trail before that day.

My take is also that this person knew the area really well. I live in a rural part of the world with what you call trails.They change season to season and look different. I am not talking about the main 501/505 or what ever I am talking about the How he knew where to go afterwards. That takes knowledge. I really am not budging from that thought.

MingyMoo

 

[stattlich1]

All good stuff I'm reading on here, thanks!

I don't think these girls were lured to the bridge that day, but I do think the killer knew they were going there. I also think he had either a personal vendetta against one, or both of them, OR he killed them to cover up another previous crime he had committed of which the girls became aware.

I bounce back and forth between a killer who holds some respect in the community, a leader of some sort, a person who is rather well known.....OR, a killer who went to school with the girls, who was angered by them to such a degree. Possibly a twisted young man who felt jilted, or maybe who was bullied, and perceived the girls as being part of that, and exploded, took it out on them that day, not too much unlike the Columbine murderers, and sadly, countless other murderers since then.

Via SM, or overheard in conversation, the killer could easily have found out the girls were heading to the bridge that day, and never even have actively communicated with them.

I am firmly in the camp that believes this killer was, and remains, very familiar with the MHB area, and all the wooded area surrounding.

All above comments are my opinion only.

 

[Justice101]

And taking pictures of it and posting it on a SM where the evidence is soon deleted. So you get to brag and get kudos for your exploits with a wider audience than word of mouth, then your proof is gone.

All this exposure seduces these kids into thinking they have it all handled at such and early age. They crave good peer judgement just like we did. I saw it with my kids. The difference is instead of them venturing out into the jungle, the jungle comes right into their rooms via the internet, making it much more intimate and seeming that much safer to them.

Abby and Libby's murders could be just random, spur of the moment crimes by some opportunistic sick mind. More and more though, I think they were lured. AJMO

For some reason, I still think BG knew the area well, probably was on and to the side of the trail a lot and knew it very very well. One week day.. he sees an opportunity of a young girl. He checks and the coast is clear in both directions and he makes his move. He moves them "down the hill" so that so new people coming along from the NW will spot them.

This guy HAD to be seen on that trail before that day.

My take is also that this person knew the area really well. I live in a rural part of the world with what you call trails.They change season to season and look different. I am not talking about the main 501/505 or what ever I am talking about the How he knew where to go afterwards. That takes knowledge. I really am not budging from that thought.

MingyMoo

Yes, I agree! And in February with the leaves completely off (except for pin oaks), he would need an extra margin for not bein detected doing whatever he did in that low spot.

He knew this place very well. He probably drank down that embankment when he was a teenager.

He may be evil.. but he is not a dummy. He has good senses and radar up. I can't wait for the gig to be up for him!